Seventh parish in New Westminster to bless same-sex couples

[Hesychios]

Another Anglican parish in Canada has opted to go ahead with same-sex blessings.

It seems that there is no turning back for those folks…

Seventh parish to bless same-sex couples

St. Hilda’s, Sechelt, became the seventh parish in the diocese of New Westminster to allow the blessing of same-sex unions.
The parish voted 122 to 9 in favour of the blessings at a vestry (membership) meeting Nov. 14, according to the Web site of the Vancouver-based diocese.
The action came in the wake of the Windsor Report, published by the Lambeth Commission, which called for a moratorium on public rites of same-sex blessings, to arrest a schism within the Anglican Communion.
The remaining 71 parishes in the diocese have not requested permission to bless gay and lesbian unions.

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+T+

 

[Franze]

I thought that was catholic, I think that anglicanism is dying in North America, greetings

 

[Bill_A]

This is the Same Episcolpal church founded by King Henry the Eighth when he burned the Catholic church in England? Why should we be surprised?

 

[Catherine_S]

Franze:

I thought that was catholic, I think that anglicanism is dying in North America, greetings

Me too ! One thing that I have always admired and loved about the Catholic Church is the thinking which says if something is good… time will tell…if something is not good…time will tell. If something is good and from the Lord it will bear good fruit…if not… it will not bear good fruit. Same sex marriage is definately not good fruit. We have a patient Church because the Holy Spirit works in a slow and almost imperceptible way most of the time. Darkness has a way of consuming itself… mainly because the thinking becomes darkened and eventually it loses all direction and is exposed. I see the Lord as very close in our day and when the Light draws nearer… the worts begin to show up. This does not always feel good…individually or as groups but change does come. The Lord is purifing His Church in our day… **Praise Him always !! :bowdown2: **
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[dumspirospero]

True…and also to be quite frank…same sex marriage can not bear any fruit, i.e. children…all it can bear is lust, selfishness, sodomy, and intrinsic evil.

Me too ! One thing that I have always admired and loved about the Catholic Church is the thinking which says if something is good… time will tell…if something is not good…time will tell. If something is good and from the Lord it will bear good fruit…if not… it will not bear good fruit. Same sex marriage is definately not good fruit. We have a patient Church because the Holy Spirit works in a slow and almost imperceptible way most of the time. Darkness has a way of consuming itself… mainly because the thinking becomes darkened and eventually it loses all direction and is exposed. I see the Lord as very close in our day and when the Light draws nearer… the worts begin to show up. This does not always feel good…individually or as groups but change does come. The Lord is purifing His Church in our day… **Praise Him always !! :bowdown2: **
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[GoodKnight1443]

God put Adam and Eve together not Adam and Steve right?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

What amazes me is this: what do the delegates in the Anglican/Roman Catholic dialogues on unity, etc., find to talk about? Why bother to get together? “Well, we agree on basically nothing, in such a way that there is really no hope of union with the Holy See, but…do you want to go get a cheeseburger?”

 

[Catherine_S]

GoodKnight1443:

God put Adam and Eve together not Adam and Steve right?

Hi… …jokes like that** never** help…there like throwing oil on the fire !!
God Bless You.
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

Then some wonder why we have massive earthquakes, some people never learn.

 

[Catherine_S]

JKirkLVNV:

What amazes me is this: what do the delegates in the Anglican/Roman Catholic dialogues on unity, etc., find to talk about? Why bother to get together? “Well, we agree on basically nothing, in such a way that there is really no hope of union with the Holy See, but…do you want to go get a cheeseburger?”

Hi… …the Anglican Church in Africa will not even discuss homosexuality let alone** same sex marriage !!!** They are not pleased at all with the Anglican Church in the western world. We have no need to be concerned with the Catholic Church… the teachings on these issues will** never** change. The Catholic Church is however… always charitable in it’s dialogue with others.
A cheeseburger sounds great !!! !! My** tummy** just did a** big flip** and my mind said yummy yummy but I think I will pass** on the artery clogger !!!:bigyikes: **
God Bless You,
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[Hesychios]

JKirkLVNV:

What amazes me is this: what do the delegates in the Anglican/Roman Catholic dialogues on unity, etc., find to talk about? Why bother to get together? “Well, we agree on basically nothing, in such a way that there is really no hope of union with the Holy See, but…do you want to go get a cheeseburger?”

I think a cheeseburger is all they’ve got right now, as far as I can tell further talks have been called off.

I did find this PDF dated June 8, 2004 which is called
*Ecclesiological Reflections on the Current Situation in the Anglican Communion in the Light of ARCIC: Report of the ad hoc sub-commission of the International Anglican-Roman Catholic Commission on Unity and Mission

*I am sure the dialogues have become a train wreck over these issues.

 

[Catherine_S]

dumspirospero:

True…and also to be quite frank…same sex marriage can not bear any fruit, i.e. children…all it can bear is lust, selfishness, sodomy, and intrinsic evil.

Hello on this second day of a New Year !

For what ever reason…many carry this** heavy cross** in solitude, suffering and faithfulness to the teachings of God and Church…we need always to be mindful of this and sensitive. Always respectful of these folks… when discussing this matter.

There are** also** those… who in a very overt way…** flaunt it in everyones face** …wanting anyone who disagrees with them to believe that they have a problem. We show our resolve through firmness of conviction and always in a charitable way…for in the end it is God who will judge.

It is wrong to practice homosexuality and time will show this to those who practice it and to those who go along with it.Truth will remain** truth** regardless of what others think or do !

---

God Bless You,
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[Catherine_S]

Hesychios:

I think a cheeseburger is all they’ve got right now, as far as I can tell further talks have been called off.

I did find this PDF dated June 8, 2004 which is called
Ecclesiological Reflections on the Current Situation in the Anglican Communion in the Light of ARCIC: Report of the ad hoc sub-commission of the International Anglican-Roman Catholic Commission on Unity and Mission

I am sure the dialogues have become a train wreck over these issues.

Hello out there ! Many blessings to you in the New Year ! Can anyone guess where the many who will leave the Anglican Church over this issue** will go** ? **A hint !! ** **!! **The Catholic Church will need to increase the number of RCIA facilitators :clapping: !Time…a great healer of disagreement… **will **tell.:yup:. The Lord is busy indeed !!
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[GoodKnight1443]

Originally Posted by GoodKnight1443
God put Adam and Eve together not Adam and Steve right?

**

Hi…

.jokes like that never** help…there like throwing oil on the fire !!
God Bless You.
Shalom,
Catherine

---

Hi Catherine,

---

That was not meant as a joke. That is actually something I heard from a very sincere priest during such a discussion. No one laughed.

 

[QuicumqueVult]

Hello out there ! Many blessings to you in the New Year ! Can anyone guess where the many who will leave the Anglican Church over this issue** will go** ? **A hint !! ** **!! **The Catholic Church will need to increase the number of RCIA facilitators :clapping: !Time…a great healer of disagreement… **will **tell.:yup:. The Lord is busy indeed !!
Shalom,
Catherine

Greetings from an Anglican priest.

When you say “the many,” I wonder where your line is between the gift of hope and naivete. I do appreciate your optimism. But I have lost mine regarding Anglicanism in North America. I had some even after General Convention 2003. But the way American Anglicans are responding to the Windsor Report, I think we are talking long term schism. I am not into “remnant theology” or “confessing churches within churches.” Rusty Reno left this past September to become Roman. Remnant theology. Good Lord deliver us!

So my guess, short of a miracle or other work of providence, is that we will cease to be a significant religious presence on this continent. We’ve been going that way since the 1960s. All the recent nonsense has done is accelerate the inevitable.

In my experience, “the many” amongst Anglicans will stay put or simply lapse. Anglicans are mostly a very anti-authority lot. They like the looks of Catholicism because it seems so “historical and cultural.” Or perhaps they are “cradle” and Anglicanism is part of their “felt identity.” But we will not tolerate anyone telling us what to believe or do, apart from platitudes the average thoughtful human accepts implicitly. The gay thing is interesting in that usually ECUSA mimics the culture. This time it seems to have been rather avant garde.

But most will not cross the Tiber. Their souls are too accustomed to personal autonomy to yield to the Magisterium. It isn’t called the PROTESTANT Episcopal Church, USA for nothing.

 

[Catherine_S]

QuicumqueVult:

Greetings from an Anglican priest.

When you say “the many,” I wonder where your line is between the gift of hope and naivete. I do appreciate your optimism. But I have lost mine regarding Anglicanism in North America. I had some even after General Convention 2003. But the way American Anglicans are responding to the Windsor Report, I think we are talking long term schism. I am not into “remnant theology” or “confessing churches within churches.” Rusty Reno left this past September to become Roman. Remnant theology. Good Lord deliver us!

So my guess, short of a miracle or other work of providence, is that we will cease to be a significant religious presence on this continent. We’ve been going that way since the 1960s. All the recent nonsense has done is accelerate the inevitable.

In my experience, “the many” amongst Anglicans will stay put or simply lapse. Anglicans are mostly a very anti-authority lot. They like the looks of Catholicism because it seems so “historical and cultural.” Or perhaps they are “cradle” and Anglicanism is part of their “felt identity.” But we will not tolerate anyone telling us what to believe or do, apart from platitudes the average thoughtful human accepts implicitly. The gay thing is interesting in that usually ECUSA mimics the culture. This time it seems to have been rather avant garde.

But most will not cross the Tiber. Their souls are too accustomed to personal autonomy to yield to the Magisterium. It isn’t called the PROTESTANT Episcopal Church, USA for nothing.

Thank you very much for your letter. My faith is simple… I deeply beleive that Jesus Christ is the head of the Church… it is His Church and He is building it. It exist because of who He is not because of** who we are**. The Church has existed for 2000 years and any reading of History certainly points to** His Providence being with it or it would not be here ! The gates of hell will not prevail against it because He said it would not ! It will stand until the end of days. I believe that it is being purified and chastized in our day.The rot in the Catholic Church has been exposed and the comfortable pew is no longer as comfortable as it use to be. It is also becoming more than clear that the splintering among the Protestant demominations ( over 33,000 last count 2 years ago) that something is definately out of order. Grave errors indeed! God is not a God of confusion ! Here we are entering a time in History when things are becoming extremely chaotic…inviromentally, politically and morally and many are ill prepared to cope with it all. Where are the shepperds who will tend to the sheep!? Where is the Truth to be found. Without absolutes there is no right nor wrong… each individual decides what is right or wrong. Solo flying is certainly in vogue.** This will not work… at least not much longer. I will continue to believe in the true Shepperd… Jesus Christ and I will trust what He said. I will also continue to follow the Church that has been there since the beginning of christianity…the Catholic Church. The Magisterium is gift. Some things will never change…they can not change. Everyone left to their own thinking will eventually fall into relativism. This is exactly what has happened especially in the western world. We can look and see with clarity what the printing press and this rugged individualism has brought. In the end… I guess you could say I am definately counting on Providence, believing that it has always been within the Church and always will be.

May God richly bless you and guide you. May He guide and lead all Anglicans to where He will have them be at this point in History. I will add a web link for you and I hope that it will not be an offence to you. I mean none and only wish to share…** Number 30** is what I give to you. This is a deeply faith filled man… who speaks with great love for his Anglican background… I am a little prejudice …he is a Canadian and so am I !! He saw what was coming many years ago and suffered his faith as a priest in the Anglican Church too.
God Bless,
Shalom,
Catherine

ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?pgnu=1&SeriesID=-6892289

 

[Catherine_S]

GoodKnight1443:

Originally Posted by GoodKnight1443
God put Adam and Eve together not Adam and Steve right?

Hi Catherine,

That was not meant as a joke. That is actually something I heard from a very sincere priest during such a discussion. No one laughed.

Sorry GoodKnight…I have heard this saying as a joke many times by TV evangelists. It usually got quite a laugh but I saw it as unkind. Sorry about that again !!

---

PS…Your name "Goodknight" brought to mind the movie that recently came out called… Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table…it is very good.

God Bless You,
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[Hesychios]

Hello out there ! Many blessings to you in the New Year ! Can anyone guess where the many who will leave the Anglican Church over this issue** will go** ? **A hint !! ** **!! **The Catholic Church will need to increase the number of RCIA facilitators :clapping: !Time…a great healer of disagreement… **will **tell.:yup:. The Lord is busy indeed !!
Shalom,
Catherine

Hello Catherine!
For my purposes I can only talk about the Anglicans in the U.S.A. but I think it might be similar in Canada.

I wish I could say I think you are correct about this. But I expect we will not need to increase the number of RCIA facilitators over this issue.

Why? Because the (P)ECUSA has a high proportion of former Catholics who are there because they have divorced and remarried in situations that would not permit an annulment (many couldn’t care about an annulment anyway). Many others of the former Catholics differ with the church on abortion and contraception, many are strong advocates of female ordination and others are strongly supportive of their church on the by now notorious homosexual issues.

Another large distinct proportion of Episcopalians originated from other Protestant denominations are attracted by the liturgy (bells and smells), but not necessarily the fundamentals of Catholic Faith or the authority of a centrally run church.

The (P)ECUSA is in a state of decline for sure, and is smarting a bit right now but the most conservative parishes tend to be evangelical for the most part. If we observe the many news reports concerning individual parishes disputing with their bishops most of them are very evangelical and hold the Bible as primary in authority, not a bishop and certainly not a Pope or Patriarch. These parishes have been holding and nurturing those beliefs for generations, hiring pastors who will reflect their own beliefs back upon them. There will be many exceptions among individuals I am certain, we have encountered a few of those brave souls posting here God bless 'em, but not enough to make much of an impact on the (supposedly) 60 million member Catholic church.

So let’s look at the numbers, with the Episcopal church there are approximately 7000 parishes in the USA, with less than 2,500,000 people total. That makes an average of 357 per parish, if each parish loses 20% of it’s membership that would be 70 to 75 members or 20 to 25 families. My guess is that 4 out of 5 of those would become Protestants in another denomination (they might just go to the original denomination of the spouse coming into a mixed marriage). The remainder, or 14 to 16 people would be split in some way between the Orthodox and the Catholics; believe me they will look around.

I truly expect the Orthodox churches to gain as many or more converts as the Catholic church.

Eventually the (P)ECUSA would reach a new point of equilibrium, after closing some churches and spending a pile of dough in litigation, and then carry on as before though even more radicalized as the moderating influence of the more Traditional, Biblical or Evangelical membership decreases with their falling numbers in proportion.

This is all a guess on my part, I even inflated my numbers over what I actually think would happen. But I am afraid that the (P)ECUSA is going to be motoring on for a long, long time to come teaching and preaching heterodoxy to our culture with nothing we can do about it. That is why this is such a sad affair. Nothing at all to be gleeful about.

Finally, many people underestimate the culture shock of leaving a parish of less than 500 to perhaps 1000 souls and joining a parish of 8,000 to 12,000 or even 20,000. The psychological impact is enormous, and many people will quickly become discouraged and dismayed by the loss of community they will feel, feeling unnoticed or unwelcome, and many might eventually look elsewhere. This is a real problem for the Catholic church and it seriously needs to be addressed.

+T+
Michael

 

[QuicumqueVult]

Michael:

I very astute diagnosis. Becoming Catholic is a huge culture shock for an Anglican. I once heard an analogy from a very pro-Roman Anglican priest.

We think of typical Anglican parishes like quaint neo-Gothic chapels set in a lovely wood on a hill by a gurgling stream. They are small and beautiful with an emphasis on aesthetics without and civility within. The rather affluent and well-educated parishioners usually know each other, are always attentive, decent and polite, and the liturgy is lovely and the people participate fully, especially singing the well-composed hymns accompanied by pipe organ and surpliced choir. They agree in utmost courtesy to disagree over any number of issues, whether theological or moral or political. What they agree on is that their parish is lovely and everything must be done decently and in order. One imagines typical fellowship as talking about spiritual matters over tea and biscuits in the parish hall. Or wine and cheese. The parish priest is erudite, amiable and available, having just the right number of souls to care for given his family and personal commitments.

Most Roman parishes are like Grand Central Station. They are huge and bustling with people ignoring and tripping over each other. Few are paying attention to what’s going on and few participate with enthusiasm, especially in the singing. Most can’t be bothered even to look at the music. They are all there for the same reason but they aren’t exactly excited about it. One notices the odd drunk lying on a bench, the several children screaming throughout with mothers idly looking away in frustration and boredom. It is a mass of humanity, few of whom know each other or care to know each other. As long as the trains arrive and depart on time, everyone is happy. This is typically the case because the schedules are accomodating and everyone gets their ticket punched in due time, but with little in the way one might call “a personal touch.” People are also very concerned to get to their cars as quickly as possible to avoid the traffic jams that occur. This means little in the way of conversation and fellowship. The parish priest is polite but overworked and on the verge of mental and emotional collapse trying to run the Station and its thousand of demands.

This from a priest who actually favours the Roman ethos as more indicative of real humanity. But it’s hard to leave the former for the latter without what the psychologists call a lot of cognitive dissonance.

Cheers,

 

[Catherine_S]

Hesychios:

Hello Catherine!
For my purposes I can only talk about the Anglicans in the U.S.A. but I think it might be similar in Canada.

I wish I could say I think you are correct about this. But I expect we will not need to increase the number of RCIA facilitators over this issue.

Why? Because the (P)ECUSA has a high proportion of former Catholics who are there because they have divorced and remarried in situations that would not permit an annulment (many couldn’t care about an annulment anyway). Many others of the former Catholics differ with the church on abortion and contraception, many are strong advocates of female ordination and others are strongly supportive of their church on the by now notorious homosexual issues.

Another large distinct proportion of Episcopalians originated from other Protestant denominations are attracted by the liturgy (bells and smells), but not necessarily the fundamentals of Catholic Faith or the authority of a centrally run church.

The (P)ECUSA is in a state of decline for sure, and is smarting a bit right now but the most conservative parishes tend to be evangelical for the most part. If we observe the many news reports concerning individual parishes disputing with their bishops most of them are very evangelical and hold the Bible as primary in authority, not a bishop and certainly not a Pope or Patriarch. These parishes have been holding and nurturing those beliefs for generations, hiring pastors who will reflect their own beliefs back upon them. There will be many exceptions among individuals I am certain, we have encountered a few of those brave souls posting here God bless 'em, but not enough to make much of an impact on the (supposedly) 60 million member Catholic church.

So let’s look at the numbers, with the Episcopal church there are approximately 7000 parishes in the USA, with less than 2,500,000 people total. That makes an average of 357 per parish, if each parish loses 20% of it’s membership that would be 70 to 75 members or 20 to 25 families. My guess is that 4 out of 5 of those would become Protestants in another denomination (they might just go to the original denomination of the spouse coming into a mixed marriage). The remainder, or 14 to 16 people would be split in some way between the Orthodox and the Catholics; believe me they will look around.

I truly expect the Orthodox churches to gain as many or more converts as the Catholic church.

Eventually the (P)ECUSA would reach a new point of equilibrium, after closing some churches and spending a pile of dough in litigation, and then carry on as before though even more radicalized as the moderating influence of the more Traditional, Biblical or Evangelical membership decreases with their falling numbers in proportion.

This is all a guess on my part, I even inflated my numbers over what I actually think would happen. But I am afraid that the (P)ECUSA is going to be motoring on for a long, long time to come teaching and preaching heterodoxy to our culture with nothing we can do about it. That is why this is such a sad affair. Nothing at all to be gleeful about.

Finally, many people underestimate the culture shock of leaving a parish of less than 500 to perhaps 1000 souls and joining a parish of 8,000 to 12,000 or even 20,000. The psychological impact is enormous, and many people will quickly become discouraged and dismayed by the loss of community they will feel, feeling unnoticed or unwelcome, and many might eventually look elsewhere. This is a real problem for the Catholic church and it seriously needs to be addressed.

+T+
Michael

Thank you Michael…you have certainly given this a lot of thought… you are a** very** intelligent man and I seem to like you very much. However, as I mentioned "Christ is the head of the Church… He is building His church and will continue to do just that. The paradox of christianity is that when the Light draws nearer it does not always feel good. The big worts begin to show up! Folks tend to seek Easter Sunday rather than Good Friday…joy rather than suffering but they go together. Much of the world suffers deeply and those becoming christian… especially in countries such as Africa etc.know the cross well and even their readings on scripture are far different than in the feel good west ! We may use our heads or our hearts or both to reach different conclusions **but **in the end it will be through Providence that the Church will continue on ! Once again…thank you…nice sharing with you Michael.
Shalom,
Catherine