Several questions regarding the events at Fatima, Portugal in 1917...

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Robert_Burns said:
I was reading a book by St Theresa - the Interior Castles. I found a profound Truth. (BTW anyone who has read that book knows how spiritually deep it is) I feel similar sentiments when I read some accounts by the Saints or their life accounts. Our Lord put is simply as - Love GOD with your whole heart with your whole soul and with your whole mind and your neighbor as yourself out of that Love for GOD. It is my belief that the more you learn about GOD and his Truths the more you realize how pitifully inadequate we all are and how utterly dependent on him we all are. So dont seek as much to have knowledge of GOD - but rather - spend your time putting him first in everything you do and loving him as much as you possible can. When you can do that - the 7 gifts of the Holy Ghost will flow to you . So my opinion - The secret is to love GOD. And love your neighbor. Not just say it - but do it. And if you do these things - GOD’s grace will be yours in abundance.

Pax
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And does St. Theresa explain how this conversion happens?
 
Well lets see what Fatima is saying?

fatima.org/news/newsviews/frhess.asp

Nope they don’t seem to be in agreement about any of this. So we have what the Pope said, what you believe and what really happened?

I would to very hesitant to not give the Queen of Heaven the utmost respect. Matter of Fact I pray to her daily through the Rosary myself. And allow her to interceed on my behalf through her Son Jesus.

Father Malichi Martin Advisor to Three-Popes, 30-years as a Catholic Priest. Firmly felt this was the biggest mistake of the last three Popes? BTW he also read the Third Secret and openly admitted its not been released in its entire form.

This is a topic that those of the Catholic Faith tread lightly on this forum with respect to it. So to get your true answer. Research it outside this forum. I believe eveyone here has much to much respect for their faith to be perfectly honest here. Thus choose to avoid the issue.

The Pope has already been to Fatima this year. And Fatima has held a Mass at the Vatican. So they are in constant conversation over this.

Akita Japan 1973 is confirmed by the Vatican and is said to be the same basic message as Fatima? So what are we to believe? I do believe the Vatican is under enormous pressure thats for sure. And do to this I believe there stance is very conservative.
 
simple_soul said:
So would this also apply to can we or MUST we believe in the relevance of the apparitions in the first place?
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The Church has said they are worthy of belief. Since the topic is whether or not the Consecration was done to the satisfaction of the Blessed Virgin Mary - why then would someone who does not venerate the apparitions care to begin with?
 
simple_soul said:
OK, I agree with this.(Not that I could tell you what constitutes an Ex Cathedra statement or not.) :o
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When the pope speaks Ex Cathedra is specifically says he is doing so. It’s not very often.

Correct me if I’m wrong, anybody, but isn’t the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary the last time that was done?
 
Robert_Burns said:
The Church has said they are worthy of belief. Since the topic is whether or not the Consecration was done to the satisfaction of the Blessed Virgin Mary - why then would someone who does not venerate the apparitions care to begin with?
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I believe this is what confuses me about what you are saying. On one hand you are willing to trust in the church’s guidance regarding the apparitions but then when it comes to trusting her guidance regarding the consecration you seem to not trust her guidance. What is it that I am missing here?
 
simple_soul said:
And does St. Theresa explain how this conversion happens?
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Well, first of all I’m come into this thread very late. But being of Portuguese ancestry I’m always interested in Fatima.

As far as the conversion, I don’t think it’s easy or there is a simple book that tells you how to do it. I think you’ve got to start by, as has been posted, loving God with all your heart, mind, and soul. I think Mother Theresa also said something similar. The rest will follow. So far, I’m struggling. Not as far as loving God, but loving my neighbor. That being all people. So, pray for me and I’ll pray for you! 🙂
 
Robert_Burns said:
Are you Catholic? If you are Catholic already - you do not need to be converted.
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*Sorry for addressing this post twice but, I believe I am catholic but I do not believe I fully understand all of God’s Truths. So since I am still learning His Truths does this mean I am not catholic? *
 
simple_soul said:
*Sorry for addressing this post twice but, I believe I am catholic but I do not believe I fully understand all of God’s Truths. So since I am still learning His Truths does this mean I am not catholic? *
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LOL! None of us know all of God’s truths. We know what has been revealed. But I’m sure there is much much more. Far too much for our puny little brains to understand. 🙂
 
simple_soul said:
I believe this is what confuses me about what you are saying. On one hand you are willing to trust in the church’s guidance regarding the apparitions but then when it comes to trusting her guidance regarding the consecration you seem to not trust her guidance. What is it that I am missing here?
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I believe that Sr. Lucia was adamant in stating the consecration was done adequately.
 
cathdoki said:
Well, first of all I’m come into this thread very late. But being of Portuguese ancestry I’m always interested in Fatima.

As far as the conversion, **I don’t think it’s easy **or there is a simple book that tells you how to do it. I think you’ve got to start by, as has been posted, loving God with all your heart, mind, and soul. I think Mother Theresa also said something similar. The rest will follow. So far, I’m struggling. Not as far as loving God, but loving my neighbor. That being all people.
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*I totally agree that it is not easy and that it also takes time and patience and sacrifices. *
cathdoki said:
So, pray for me and I’ll pray for you! 🙂
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*Thank you and I absolutely will! *
 
cathdoki said:
I believe that Sr. Lucia was adamant in stating the consecration was done adequately.
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Well so far I have read in this thread that not only did Sr. Lucia say this but the Church has said this too. My confusion is that some people seem to not want to accept it. My question to them is simple. Why?
 
simple_soul said:
Well so far I have read in this thread that not only did Sr. Lucia say this but the Church has said this too. My confusion is that some people seem to not want to accept it. My question to them is simple. Why?
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Perhaps it is because of the statements of Fr Gruener? He’s not in the best standing in the Church regarding Fatima. As a matter of fact, it may be fair to say he is nearly heretical with some of his statements.
 
cathdoki said:
Perhaps it is because of the statements of Fr Gruener? He’s not in the best standing in the Church regarding Fatima. As a matter of fact, it may be fair to say he is nearly heretical with some of his statements.
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So I gathered from earlier posts in this thread. If this is indeed their reason, my question to them comes with even more sincerity.
 
VitaminC said:
Take a look at the following two quotations attributed to Cardinal Ratzinger. The first comes from an interview with Jesus Magazine in 1984 (which Cardinal Ratzinger himself reviewed and approved before publication). The second is from 1996:

Note the color coding. Red pairs with red, green with green, etc. Note the contradictions between the two versions.

In 1984, when asked by an interviewer why the Third Secret hasn’t been revealed:
“Because, according to the judgement of the Popes, it adds nothing to what a Christian must know concerning what derives from Revelation: i.e., a radical call for conversion; the absolute importance of history; the dangers threatening the faith and the life of the Christian, and therefore of the world. And then the importance of the end times. If it is not made public - at least for the time being - it is in order to prevent religious prophecy from being mistaken for a quest for the sensational. But the things contained in this ‘Third Secret’ correspond to what has been announced in Scripture and has been said again and again in many other Marian apparitions, first of all that of Fatima in what is already known of what its message contains. Conversion and penitence are the essential conditions for ‘salvation’.”

In 1996, when asked by an interviewer why the Third Secret hasn’t been revealed:

“I’ve had enough of speaking about that. The message transmitted by Sister Lucy, and not yet revealed, concerns neither the history of the world in general nor individual facts in particular. The Lady does not enter into details about the future. The Secret contains nothing new, it foretells no tragedy for humanity, nothing apocalyptic and nothing essential for the faith. The Lady simply opens a path, and this path leads to conversion and to faith. In a certain sense, the Second Vatican Council was the realization of the Virgin’s message and, in summoning it, Pope John XXIII did the essential in answer to the Virgin’s message.”[taken from The Catholic Counter-Reformation in the XXth Century, #289, Oct. 1996]* → see:* catholicism.org/downloads/suppressing.pdf . Also the book, FATIMA IN TWILIGHT, Mark Fellows, Marmion Publications, 2003).

So, what happened? Cardinal Ratzinger told two different stories. He didn’t just tell two different stories. His second story was the exact opposite of his first one!
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Your second quote is not believable. The source is in disrepute - that source is against Vatican II, has articles on their website disparaging Benedict XVI (saying for example that he does not believe in hell), amongst other things. Please do not buttress your articles against the consecration being done by quoting Fr. Gruener, fatima.org or this website, as they are completely biased and they disregard any proofs that show their position to be in error.

First of all, while I do not personally know Pope Benedict XVI, the very first sentence in the second quote does not sound like him. I believe the quote is fabricated (many quotes about Fatima’s 3rd secret were fabricated over the years, and many of these types of quotes in support of those who disagree the consecration has been done are also fabricated.)

Your second source is completely suspect and disreputable.
 
beehumble said:
Your second quote is not believable. The source is in disrepute - that source is against Vatican II, has articles on their website disparaging Benedict XVI (saying for example that he does not believe in hell), amongst other things. Please do not buttress your articles against the consecration being done by quoting Fr. Gruener, fatima.org or this website, as they are completely biased and they disregard any proofs that show their position to be in error.

First of all, while I do not personally know Pope Benedict XVI, the very first sentence in the second quote does not sound like him. I believe the quote is fabricated (many quotes about Fatima’s 3rd secret were fabricated over the years, and many of these types of quotes in support of those who disagree the consecration has been done are also fabricated.)

Your second source is completely suspect and disreputable.
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I think you are absolutely correct. First of all, Cardinal Ratzinger was speaking of his OWN OPINION. Nothing the Blessed Mother says in any way contradicts Sacred Scripture. At the same time private revelation is not binding on Catholics. Everything that we need to know is in the Gospel, and other New Testament books. People seem to want to make more of things than they are worth. Our Lady is concerned with nothing more than bringing us to her Son. We have all we need in the Gospel. That’s it. Nothing more. I believe in the apparitions at Fatima, but I’m not obsessed with them. Too too many people almost make it a center of their faith. That is not the purpose of Mary’s appearances. She is subject to her Son and knows it. This third secret thing has been made into a magical prophecy. It was not meant to be as such. Even if she laid the ground work for what we know will be the end times, nothing she has said is outside the Gospel. Nothing she has said is something we do not already know.

As far as end times. We should not be trying to predict. That goes completely against Jesus’ teachings. I’m old enough to know the end times is coming within in the next few decades, at least for me. I will likely die long before the end times arrive. Am I sure? NO. But I do know that I am to be concerned with my soul. My end time is when I will be judged. Time to stop the nonsense.
 
Robert_Burns said:
Ram: Can we or MUST we is the question. A Pope can have an opinion and be wrong.
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Then the Pope could have also be wrong about declaring Fatima worthy of belief. Why accept his opinion on one aspect of it but reject his opinion on another aspect of it? What makes your opinion on these matters more creditable than that of the Pope’s?
 
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