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Windfish
Guest
Great. I just ordered it.
I really will be the most educated member on this topic when all is said and done.
Several questions regarding the events at Fatima, Portugal in 1917...
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I really will be the most educated member on this topic when all is said and done.
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RichardJS
Guest
The Pope and the Bishops and the priests of the Catholic church must OBEY the wishes of Mary Most Holy, Queen of Heaven and earth, and consecrate Russia, specifically, to Her Holy and Immaculate Heart. The worst offence being ignored by the very people who profess to be so holy. YOU MUST OBEY! It would be such a simple thing to have a Mass said at the same time all over the world on the same day, to consecrate Russia, specifically, to Her Immaculate Heart. And, that would be the end of the abortion holocaust. but, no, everyone wants to nit pic and call me names. The Pope and the Bishops must move on this.
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Shin
Guest
The spirit of this age is the spirit of disobedience and rebellion. . .
People and prelates who couldn’t obey the pre-Conciliar Church and its oaths and discipline, certainly aren’t going to obey Our Lady either…
Our Lady and the Church… the parallel is there.
Such a simple thing to do… which could be done at the drop of a pin… and yet it does not occur… why? The answer is simple… there is a spiritual scale… and the weight on one side is found wanting, and on the other, too great.
Naturally instead, like everything else, they must treat it ambiguously and fiddle with it!
People and prelates who couldn’t obey the pre-Conciliar Church and its oaths and discipline, certainly aren’t going to obey Our Lady either…
Our Lady and the Church… the parallel is there.
Such a simple thing to do… which could be done at the drop of a pin… and yet it does not occur… why? The answer is simple… there is a spiritual scale… and the weight on one side is found wanting, and on the other, too great.
Naturally instead, like everything else, they must treat it ambiguously and fiddle with it!
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
I get tired of hearing this stuff that the consecration hasn’t been done. It has.
Read below.
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December 1940 Sr. Lucia writes letter to Pius XII, saying that Our Lord Himself requests the Pope to "consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, with a special mention for Russia, and order that all the Bishops of the world do the same in union with Your Holiness."4
October 31, 1942 Pope Pius XII consecrates the world to the Immaculate Heart.
July 7, 1952 Pope Pius XII consecrates the Russian people to the Immaculate Heart
November 21, 1964 Pope Paul VI renews, in the presence of the Fathers of the Vatican Council but without their participation, the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart.
May 13, 1982 Pope John Paul II invites the bishops of the world to join him in consecrating the world and with it Russia to the Immaculate Heart. Many do not receive the invitation in time for the Pope’s trip to Fatima, where he accomplishes the consecration. Sr. Lucia later says it did not fulfill the conditions.
October 1983 Pope John Paul II, at the Synod of Bishops, renews the 1982 Consecration
March 25, 1984 Pope John Paul II, “united with all the pastors of the Church in a particular bond whereby we constitute a body and a college,” consecrates “the whole world, especially the peoples for which by reason of their situation you have particular love and solicitude.” Both the Pope and Sr. Lucia initially seemed uncertain that the consecration has been fulfilled, but shortly thereafter Sr. Lucia tells the papal nuncio to Portugal that the Consecration is fulfilled.
May 13, 1984 One of the largest crowds in Fatima history gathers at the shrine to pray the Rosary for peace.
May 13, 1984 An explosion at the Soviets’ Severomorsk Naval Base destroys two-thirds of all the missiles stockpiled for the Soviets’ Northern Fleet. The blast also destroys workshops needed to maintain the missiles as well as hundreds of scientists and technicians. Western military experts called it the worst naval disaster the Soviet Navy has suffered since WWII.
December 1984 Soviet Defense Minister, mastermind of the invasion plans for Western Europe, suddenly and mysteriously dies.
March 10, 1985 Soviet Chairman Konstantin Chernenko dies
March 11, 1985 Soviet Chairman Mikhail Gorbachev elected
April 26, 1986 Chernobyl nuclear reactor accident
May 12, 1988 An explosion wrecked the only factory that made the rocket motors for the Soviets’ deadly SS 24 long-range missiles, which carry ten nuclear bombs each.
August 29, 1989 Sr. Lucia affirms in correspondence that the consecration “has been accomplished” and that “God will keep His word.”
November 9, 1989 Fall of the Berlin Wall
Nov-Dec 1989 Peaceful revolutions in Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Albania
1990 East and West Germany are unified
December 25, 1991 Dissolution of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
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The problem is no longer Russia. There are now two major problems - decadence in the West, and the resurgence of Islam.
Give the Russian nonsense a break, will you.
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MarkThompson
Guest
Get reads for the claims about how Sr. Lucia was replaced with an impostor by the Vatican.
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Shin
Guest
If you think the above is ‘the conversion of Russia’ then you’re pretty unique among people who pray for other’s conversion. 
I wonder what happens to Protestants when you pray for them?
They die, lose their guns, explode, what?
I wonder what happens to Protestants when you pray for them?They die, lose their guns, explode, what?
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notredame_999
Guest
I suggest you look into the fatima challenge that was recently finished by Fr. Nicolas Gruner who has dedicated his whole life to this very topic. I invite you to just watch one of the videos posted. The whole thing doesnt make sense to me, and if you want confirmation from a holy Cardinal look into Silvio Oddi’s assessment of the third secret and its possible relation to Vatican II. By the way I am reading Our Lady of Fatima by William Thomas Walsh right now! This book, in addition to With God In Russia by Walter Cizek are my favorite books. Its great to here I am not the only one in the world reading this book! I try to explain Fatima to my family but its hard. I really enjoyed the beginning of the book when Walsh articulates how holy and simple these beautiful children came from.
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Shin
Guest
FWIF. I’ve seen some of that, it was good to listen to. I haven’t invested a great deal in the matter at this point, but my *impression *is Sr. Lucia was ordered to accept the general consecration, did so under obedience, and since it was general and indirect, it had only a partial ambiguous effect at best. Which would be absolutely typical of the results of the recent shepherds’ work.
And also a clear sign that it needs to be done properly. How much trouble is it? None whatsoever. So many people praying for it, desiring it. But… what do those in power care? I mean, it’s like a direct consecration is lifting the Titanic. . Why not do it? I can think of reasons. Not good ones… But how could they be? Unfortunately.
The spread of the errors of Russia has not been stopped, that is obvious since the ideals of Communism and Socialism have taken leadership positions all over the nations of the world, rather than been abandoned. And Russia herself is still under former-KGB power and not showing any special Catholic conversion. When the Mother of God herself comes to this earth… you expect something like Mexico and the Aztecs… not what we have here.
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notredame_999
Guest
“Give the Russian Nonsense a break”
Russia in many ways now is just as hostile if not more so to traditional Christian virtue and Catholicism than they were before the cold war. In Russia, Islam receives less persecution than the Roman Catholic Church. You also have to look into their disproportionate abortion rates and the number of orphans. PLEASE READ THIS POSTED ON CHRONICLES MAGAZINE LAST WEEK:
chroniclesmagazine.org/index.php/2010/07/05/child-abuse-the-state-and-the-russian-family/
Russia in many ways now is just as hostile if not more so to traditional Christian virtue and Catholicism than they were before the cold war. In Russia, Islam receives less persecution than the Roman Catholic Church. You also have to look into their disproportionate abortion rates and the number of orphans. PLEASE READ THIS POSTED ON CHRONICLES MAGAZINE LAST WEEK:
chroniclesmagazine.org/index.php/2010/07/05/child-abuse-the-state-and-the-russian-family/
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nice2000
Guest
How could the Pope consecrate Russia without even mentioning Russia?Get reads for the claims about how Sr. Lucia was replaced with an impostor by the Vatican.
When God ask us to do something, we must do it exactly like he asks. It is just like a recipe, the chef has specific ingredients to bake a cake. He ask that you add yeast to the cake so the cake will rise, if you leave out the yeast, the cake will fall. Another example, a car manufacture says to include brake pads to the wheels so the car will stop, if we purposely leave out the brake pads, the car will crash.
God sent his Mother and Son to warn us in the year 1917 for a very good reason. To warn the world what will happen if his requests are not made. Persecution of the church, and many other errors that are happening in this world today. The leader of all these errors is the country Russia which is spreading throughout the entire world.
Even the Pope himself admitted that the correct consecration of Russia was not done.
On Dec. 8, 1983, Pope John Paul II wrote to all the bishops of the world, asking them to join with him on March 25, 1984 in consecrating the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. He included with his letter his prepared text of consecration. On March 25, 1984, the Pope, making the consecration before the statue of Our Lady of Fatima, departed from his prepared text to add the words reported in L’Osservatore Romano (on March 26, 1984). “Enlighten especially the peoples of which you yourselves are awaiting our consecration and confiding” The words he added at this point indicate clearly that the Pope knew then that the consecration of the world done that day did not fulfill the requests of Our Lady of Fatima.
I will need to scan the article and see if I can attach it as a link.
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mdgspencer
Guest
I lived in the Buffalo area and already knew of the Father Gruner seen as an authority by the poster below, a priest who promotes conspiracy theories about Fatima. Father Gruner was suspended years ago but continues on as if he were not suspended.
There was a Catholic Answers thread on him at:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=100614
I made up my mind about Father Gruner when the local Buffalo newspaper tested the “Fatima water” he distributes and found that it was chemically unlike the actual water at Fatima.
There was a Catholic Answers thread on him at:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=100614
I made up my mind about Father Gruner when the local Buffalo newspaper tested the “Fatima water” he distributes and found that it was chemically unlike the actual water at Fatima.
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Windfish
Guest
I posted about this already in another thread, but I thought I should post it here, too:
Eight Jesuit Priests allegedly survived the atomic blast at Hiroshima, and they were only eight blocks away from the impact cite. One of them, speaking for the group, said on American television that their survival was due to Fatima. They prayed the Rosary everyday and lived the message of Fatima. Scientists examined them (along with other survivors) and were baffled that they experienced no effects.
This is an incredible miracle, but the only credible source that reports on it is the book that was recommended to me by Victorious. Does anyone have any sources at all which sheds more light on this miracle?
Eight Jesuit Priests allegedly survived the atomic blast at Hiroshima, and they were only eight blocks away from the impact cite. One of them, speaking for the group, said on American television that their survival was due to Fatima. They prayed the Rosary everyday and lived the message of Fatima. Scientists examined them (along with other survivors) and were baffled that they experienced no effects.
This is an incredible miracle, but the only credible source that reports on it is the book that was recommended to me by Victorious. Does anyone have any sources at all which sheds more light on this miracle?
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nice2000
Guest
Today, Russia has the highest abortion rate in the world. Fr. Daniel Maurer, C.J.D., who spent eight years in Russia, says that statistically, the average Russian woman will have eight abortions during her childbearing years—though Fr. Maurer believes the actual number averaged out to be about 12 abortions per woman. He has spoken to women who have had as many as 25 abortions. A major reason for these dreadful figures is that other contraception methods (which are immoral anyway) have not been introduced in Russia, nor are they trusted. This leaves abortion as the “cheapest way to limit the family size”. Presently in Russia, abortions are free, but births are not.70
The Russian birth rate is plummeting and Russia’s population is dropping at the rate of 700,000 people each year — an unprecedented event in a civilized nation during “peacetime.”71
Russia has the highest alcohol consumption in the world.72
Satanism, occultism and witchcraft are on the rise in Russia, as even the Russian Orthodox patriarch, Alexy II, publicly admits.73
Homosexuality is rampant in Moscow and throughout the country. In fact, in April 1993, nine years after the 1984 “consecration”, Boris Yeltsin allowed homosexuality to be de-criminalized. Homosexuality is now “legal” in Russia.74
Russia is a leading world center for the distribution of child pornography. The Associated Press reported on a Moscow-based child pornography ring linked to another child pornography ring in Texas. To quote AP: “Russian law does not distinguish between child pornography and pornography involving adults, and treats the production and distribution of either as a minor crime, said Dmitry Chepchugov, head of the Russian Interior Ministry’s department for high technology crimes. Russian police often complain about the legal chaos that has turned Russia into an international center of child pornography production. ‘Unfortunately, Russia has turned into a world trash bin of child pornography,’ Chepchugov told reporters in Moscow.”75
Russians are addicted to “reality-based” TV. On the most vile of the “reality-based” shows, cameras film the intimate personal lives of Russian “couples,” including their activity breaking the 6th Commandment. Despite grumbles of disapproval from old hard-line Communists, Russian viewers “cannot get enough” of this pornography. The program “boasts an audience share of more than 50% and thousands of Russians have endured sub-zero temperatures and stood in line for more than an hour to catch a glimpse of it through a window of the apartment. Millions have logged on to the website, which has crashed frequently under the weight of the heavy traffic.”76
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nice2000
Guest
Sources listed below to my previous post.
(70) Father Maurer’s remarks appeared in an interview in Catholic World Report, Feb. 2001. A synopsis and commentary on this interview was published in “The Myth of a Converted Russia Exposed”, Marian Horvat, Ph.D., Catholic Family News, March 2001.
(71) See Mark Fellows, “This Present Darkness”, Part III, Catholic Family News, October 2000.
(72) Regarding alcohol in Russia, researchers concluded: “Russia’s rate of alcohol consumption, traditionally among the highest in the world, and rising significantly in the 1990s, is a major contributor to the country’s health crisis … alcoholism has reached epidemic proportions, particularly among males … A 1995 Russian study found that regular drunkenness affected between 25 and 60 percent of blue-collar workers … In 1994 some 53,000 people died of alcohol poisoning, an increase of about 36,000 since 1991.” In the ten years since the alleged conversion of Russia, there has also been a sharp increase in illegal drug use: “In 1995 an estimated 2 million Russians used narcotics, more than twenty times the total recorded ten years earlier in the entire Soviet Union, with the number of users increasing 50 percent every year in the mid-1990s.” From Mark Fellows, “This Present Darkness”, Part II, Catholic Family News, Sept. 2000.
(73) “Satanism on the Rise in Russia”, compiled by John Vennari. See www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/satanism2.asp
(74) “Russia Legalizes Homosexuality”, United Press International, May 28, 1993. To quote the beginning of the article: “Russia’s homosexual activists Friday celebrated a major victory for gay rights in post-Soviet Russia following the repeal of Article 121 of the Soviet criminal code, which outlawed consensual sex between men. ‘This is great news for gays and lesbians in Russia,’ said Vladislav Ortanov, editor of the Moscow gay magazine Risk.”
(75) “Activist Says Child Porn Prosecutions Will be Difficult in Indonesia, Russia”, Christine Brummitt, Associated Press, Aug. 9, 2001. (Emphasis added.)
(76) “Big Brotherski goes too far for Staid Russians”, Mark Franchetti, Sunday Times (London), November 25, 2001.
(70) Father Maurer’s remarks appeared in an interview in Catholic World Report, Feb. 2001. A synopsis and commentary on this interview was published in “The Myth of a Converted Russia Exposed”, Marian Horvat, Ph.D., Catholic Family News, March 2001.
(71) See Mark Fellows, “This Present Darkness”, Part III, Catholic Family News, October 2000.
(72) Regarding alcohol in Russia, researchers concluded: “Russia’s rate of alcohol consumption, traditionally among the highest in the world, and rising significantly in the 1990s, is a major contributor to the country’s health crisis … alcoholism has reached epidemic proportions, particularly among males … A 1995 Russian study found that regular drunkenness affected between 25 and 60 percent of blue-collar workers … In 1994 some 53,000 people died of alcohol poisoning, an increase of about 36,000 since 1991.” In the ten years since the alleged conversion of Russia, there has also been a sharp increase in illegal drug use: “In 1995 an estimated 2 million Russians used narcotics, more than twenty times the total recorded ten years earlier in the entire Soviet Union, with the number of users increasing 50 percent every year in the mid-1990s.” From Mark Fellows, “This Present Darkness”, Part II, Catholic Family News, Sept. 2000.
(73) “Satanism on the Rise in Russia”, compiled by John Vennari. See www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/satanism2.asp
(74) “Russia Legalizes Homosexuality”, United Press International, May 28, 1993. To quote the beginning of the article: “Russia’s homosexual activists Friday celebrated a major victory for gay rights in post-Soviet Russia following the repeal of Article 121 of the Soviet criminal code, which outlawed consensual sex between men. ‘This is great news for gays and lesbians in Russia,’ said Vladislav Ortanov, editor of the Moscow gay magazine Risk.”
(75) “Activist Says Child Porn Prosecutions Will be Difficult in Indonesia, Russia”, Christine Brummitt, Associated Press, Aug. 9, 2001. (Emphasis added.)
(76) “Big Brotherski goes too far for Staid Russians”, Mark Franchetti, Sunday Times (London), November 25, 2001.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
The “Protestants” didn’t have a Northern Fleet, Baltic Fleet or a host of ICBM’s with multiple warheads. In fact, as with Stalin’s quip, “How many divisions has the Pope got?”, they don’t have a single division either.If you think the above is ‘the conversion of Russia’ then you’re pretty unique among people who pray for other’s conversion.
They die, lose their guns, explode, what?
The Soviet Union had to fall somehow. What did you expect? An overnight transition to a capitalist economy where greedy CEO’s can rip off the public and get large handouts to bail them out of their own greed?
Get real.
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mdgspencer
Guest
Some believe that the conversion of Russia was a moral conversion and this occurred after they rid themselves of communism. However, I suspect that this means a conversion to Catholicism, something that is still to come.
The conversion of Russia was predicted at Fatima, but it is hardly suitable to expect that this will occur according to our schedule.
The conversion of Russia was predicted at Fatima, but it is hardly suitable to expect that this will occur according to our schedule.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
A conversion to Catholicism would not be specifically Russian, but the rejoining of Orthodox and Catholic Churches under the Pope. I would imagine however that much of the Orthodox tradition would remain even within such a merger. I’d hate to see the rich liturgical tradition of the Orthdox subsumed to the level of our weekly and rather basic formalities.
I think it will happen eventually. It would be easier for this to be done than for a merger of Catholic and Protestant churches.
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RichardJS
Guest
Fatima is not something we have to “talk over” and obey at our leisure. Our Lady wants it done. You must OBEY. Now!
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ORD_NASILA
Guest
Talking of water quality is intrest to me as my country has very bad water. Can you tell me if Holy Water is chemically different to water from tap it came from? Regard, O.N.
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Belief in any private revelation is never obligatory. That is Church teaching.
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