Several questions regarding the events at Fatima, Portugal in 1917...

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What is the Heresy? Define it. If the Church approves an Apparition then the Church is proclaiming using its Apostolic authority that there is nothing doctrinally amiss.

Therefore - if a False Seer like that one named Vassula wandering around Europe the last few years pops up - the Church will investigate and decide whether or not ones faith is damaged doctrinally by following the edicts that eminate therefrom.

Its important to understand - FATIMA has met the Churches Scrutiny and is authentic.
I was not accusing you of heresy. What I was saying is that Marion apparitions are binding on Catholic faithful. Our focus has to be on Christ. That is why I said, why don’t we consecrate the world to Christ. That’s all I was trying to say.
 
*So then using this criteria, “if the Church proclaims using its Apostolic authority,” that the consecration was done as requested by the Blessed Mother Mary why should we not believe her? *
Let me ask you, Do “YOU” believe Russia was consecrated as the Blessed Mother asked? Do “you” believe the 3rd secret was released including the words of the Blessed Mother as she asked to be done?

If she told you “SIMPLE SOUL” go get the Priest from your church and bring him back here right now… Would you write him a letter? Would you wait till tommorrow? Or would you go get him like you were told?

You know, I listen to brothers speaking here. And I think the education and belief in faith is admirable. But I’m not so sure you realize the significance of what Our Lady is saying in proportion to todays events? Do you realize we could be fighting a War on three seperate fronts by this years end? Which could easily turn into World war.

While others downplay this issue, I simply magnify it. There’s NOT going to be any resolution today here. But what important is that faithfull followers start taking a hard look at Our Blessed Mother amd exaclty whats being said. And I also believe to sit back and simply think, “Ah, no big deal, the Vatican has is Covered”. Thats NOT what the Bible tells us. The Bible tells us clearly what must happen before the Second Coming of Christ. And we are in the LAST MINUTE now. When the last two Popes spoke at Fatima? They specifically talked about Revelation 12:1 through 12:4 or 8, I have heard both. So if you now revert to this part fo the Bible. Well there’s not much left is there?

I mean this is it. WE need to seriously get our act together NOW. Not your childrens, children.-but You! There may be very little left of mankind real soon.

Do I think you should quit yur day job and move to Fatima. Definatly not. But I believe we should move this Faith to where it should be, With a little effort and communication. And I believe we could “all” have a much better and clearer understanding. Through Honest communication.

Why should fatima exist as it is? Listen unless you confront and challange, then there can be NO change. Do you believe we need to change the way mankind is existing on Earth?
 
I was not accusing you of heresy. What I was saying is that Marion apparitions are binding on Catholic faithful. Our focus has to be on Christ. That is why I said, why don’t we consecrate the world to Christ. That’s all I was trying to say.
Listen bro, you made the most significant observation in this thread above. Nothing is going to be resolved here. And what your saying here is true.

All I’m saying is we as a Faith are downplaying all this, in a time in History which may well turn out to the end of Revelations. Shouldn’t we do just the opposite and really start getting our act together?

God Bless Gary.

Listen its been interesting engaging all of you today in conversstion today, serious!
 
Listen bro, you made the most significant observation in this thread above. Nothing is going to be resolved here. And what your saying here is true.

All I’m saying is we as a Faith are downplaying all this, in a time in History which may well turn out to the end of Revelations. Shouldn’t we do just the opposite and really start getting our act together?

God Bless Gary.

Listen its been interesting engaging all of you today in conversstion today, serious!
👍👍👍👍
 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_apparition

Here you go, read about it. I’m talking about Fatima and its relation to Akita. They are approved through the Vativcan and of this time. They are not simple apparitions. This is the word directly from the Blessed Mother.

What you are speaking on is injecting her word into todays Bible. Thats not what I’m saying.

Let me ask you something since you Pray the Rosary daily. If Mary appeared to you tommorrow and had a twenty minute conversation specifically with “you”, with another 10 people around to confrim it. Would you listen to her? Would you believe it was the word of GOD?
I would believe that she was leading me to her Son. And that I do believe. 👍
 
AMEN! I hear that. Hey I too Pray the Rosary daily. Its powerfull. No question about it. I don’t believe you can do this, and have that Grace from God, and not move foward in your faith. Its just much to powerfull for that. I have “much” respect for all who make this commitment in faith.

GT
 
Let me ask you, Do “YOU” believe Rusia was consecrated as the Blessed Mother asked? Do “you” believe the 3rd secret was released including the words of the Blessed Mother as she asked to be done?
I put my faith and trust in the Catholic Church’s leadership.
If she told you “SIMPLE SOUL” go get the Priest from your church and bring him back here right now… Would you write him a letter? Would you wait till tommorrow? Or would you go get him like you were told?
*Are you saying or implying that She, the Blessed Mother Mary, has told you specifically that the consecration was not done to her specifications? *
You know, I listen to brothers speaking here.
I wonder if you truly are listening. Why did you not answer my question?
And I think the education and belief in faith is admirable. **But I’m not so sure you realize the significance of what Our Lady is saying in proportion to todays events? ** Do you realize we could be fighting a War on three seperate fronts by this years end? Which could easily turn into World war.
Two things, please do not patronize me and others here and I believe that it is specifically because of the significance of what Our Lady is saying that makes me ask the questions that I ask.
While others downplay this issue, I simply magnify it. There’s NOT going to be any resolution today here. But what important is that faithfull followers start taking a hard look at Our Blessed Mother amd exaclty whats being said. And I also believe to sit back and simply think, “Ah, no big deal, the Vatican has is Covered”. Thats NOT what the Bible tells us. The Bible tells us clearly what must happen before the Second Coming of Christ. And we are in the LAST MINUTE now. When th last two Popes spoke at Fatima they specifically talked about Revelation 12:1 through 12:4 or 8 I have heard both. You if you now revert to this part fo the Bible. Well there’s not much left is there?

I mean this is it. WE need to seriously get our act toegther NOW. Not your childrens, children.-m bt You! There may be very little left of mankind real soon.

Do I think you should quit yur day job and move to Fatima. Definatly not. But I believe we should move this Faith to where it should be, With a little effort and communication. And I believe we could “all” have a much better and clearer understanding. Through Honest communication.

Why should fatima exist as it is? Listen unless you confront and challange, then there can be NO change. Do you believe we need to change the way mankind is existing on Earth?
*Who and how has anyone down played anything and who and how has anyone said anything contrary to what you say here. I believe every one agrees that mankind as a whole is indeed in dire shape. I am just not sure that we all see eye-to-eye as to what we need to do to help it. I have chosen to follow the Church’s leadership and guidance.
*
 
Who do we put our faith in? Jesus or Mary. I love Mary as my spiritual mother and pray to her. Pray the Rosary. But this is ALL private revelation anyway. There is nothing binding.

I trust the Church in matters of faith. Why shouldn’t we just consecrate the world to JESUS?
Jesus answered that. He wants the world to better know and love the Immaculate Heart of Blessed Mary, to put forward her cult, as He said.

I for one believe it was done on 25 March 1984 and accepted by God. (Remember, Blessed always and only does the will of God - she doesn’t act on her own. And she fully knows the will of God.)
 
Robert: Russia isnt CONVERTED. Our Blessed Mother didnt say anything about the fall of Communism - she spoke about the CONVERSION of Russia. Are you saying that Russia is converted and now a Catholic Country? Once again , obviously not.

As for thinking “Bigger” It would appear that you have a rather “worldly” concept of Catholic conversion - a rather worldy concept of what true morality is and a rather worldy concept about peace. Putin is not a Catholic and Russia is supporting Iran’s goal of attaining Nuclear armaments which will be unacceptable to NATO and lead to War with Israel and or the United States. Our Blessed mother speaking in 1917 spoke of fashions that greatly offend her son. Are you saying that todays fashions are not exactly what she predicted? All the bad things she predicted are coming true and here today most catholics sit in their ignorant bliss thinking that her request has come true all the while we hurl towards Armaghedon.When I read this post from you - all I could think of was the attitude that the daughters of Jerusalem had when Our Lord told them not to weep for him but for themselves and a few short years later the Romans beat Jerusalem flat to the ground. No , we Catholics do need to think much bigger - that part I agree with - but by doing as Our Blessed Mother has requested. In the meantime - Babies are ripped legally from their mothers wombs and slaughtered or created in test tubes and dismembered - people use artificial contraception - Homosexuals march proudly in the streets and marry -women and men dress and act immodestly to the point that immosdesty no longer even shocks the average person anymore - the media produces entertainment that is either geared towards witches and warlocks and vampires and werewolves with the immodesty mixed in - I could go on for days and days. And you sau that I need to think bigger? I think that all Catholics need to open their eyes and see this world for what it is today - not a Holy place and to understand that just because sin no longer shocks many of us - it still offends Almighty GOD because it is against his Commandments. And I dont write these things to alarm anyone or to criticize people - but in Charity - because as of this moment it is not too late. But if these things are merely “accepted” as the way things are then I am reminded that a chastisement is in order. One need only read Romans Chapter 1 with emphasis on Verse 32. I agree we are t5hinking too small for GOD by allowing ourselves to ignore the Warnings of the Blessed Virgin Mary and thereby consenting to the cesspool of sins that surround us.

Pax
All of the “cesspool” you enumerate above is exactly in line with my thinking. The cesspool is a manifestation, a proof of the apostasy of the end times. When I said ‘bigger’, I meant the period peace is a time of reconciliation between God and man. We are in the period of peace, or I should say the period of reconciliation. We are in the time of converting - turning back to God. God has extended an olive branch to mankind. (btw, conversion of Russia does not mean conversion to Catholicism - it means conversion or turning back to God - i.e. to doing God’s will, which demonstrates love of God. Those who love God, that is those who do His will, will be saved. Jesus says this many times, and it is found throughout Scripture. As the reading of a few Sunday’s ago said, it is not rocket science to know what we must do:
(July 11, First Reading from Deuteronomy 30: 10 - 14 )
10 if you obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
11 "For this commandment which I command you this day is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, Who will go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' 13 **Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say,** Who will go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’
14 But the word is very near you; **it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it. **

If we take hold of the olive branch and convert - i.e. turn back to God, we will be saved. Conversion is a daily process; it is not “Once converted, always converted.” We must till the garden daily to root out any weeds, which always find a way in.

When this period of reconciliation is over, it will be the end of this present world. Those who took hold of the olive branch held out to us by God will live. Those who continue to follow Satan in this itme of apostasy will not.

That is what I meant by ‘think bigger’. The consecration has been done - Blessed Mary said once done, a period of reconciliation would be given to mankind, and it is here, now. So pray, pray, pray. Hold tight to your rosary and say it as often as possible. Fast. Look up.
The only thing you need to do is to pray, and perform other acts of mercy as per the Divine Mercy devotionals, so that your hands are filled with acts of mercy when the end arrives. The last day is very near. Fast and pray and be merciful. There is nothing else left to do.
Blessed Mary told St. Faustina the last day is already set.

Nothing is going to stop it from arriving.

Now do you understand ‘bigger’?
 
That is a different issue, but that’s not what you said, which is why I highlight the above.
The error of “papism” is the notion that the Pope can never do anything wrong ever. A lot of Catholics who are confused about the Doctrine of Infallibility fall into this error.
When the Pope speaks “ex cathedra” (literally, “from the chair”) he is making an infallible declaration. That is an extremely rare occurrence. . In fact, the last time a Pope spoke ex cathedra was in 1950.
In answer to what you said previously, the Vatican is not infallible, the Pope, speaking from Peter’s Chair. is. I honestly never heard of ‘Vatican infallibility’.
Jesus said that the gates of hell would not overcome His Church – which means that those who lead the Church can no guide it into falsehood – as would be the case if they mislead the faithful into believing that something with regards to the faith happened when it didn’t.
 
What is the Heresy? Define it. If the Church approves an Apparition then the Church is proclaiming using its Apostolic authority that there is nothing doctrinally amiss.

Therefore - if a False Seer like that one named Vassula wandering around Europe the last few years pops up - the Church will investigate and decide whether or not ones faith is damaged doctrinally by following the edicts that eminate therefrom.

Its important to understand - FATIMA has met the Churches Scrutiny and is authentic.
And the Church used the SAME “Apostolic authority” to declare that the consecration was properly done. Why take their word on one but reject their word on the other? You have been asked this questions multiple times but refuse to answer.
 
*I believe so but I do not know if I fully understand what the Permissive Will God is. To me the Permissive Will of God is that He will not interfere with our free will. But at the same time I believe it is His Divine Will that He will not interfere with our free will.
To me this almost sounds like a paradox…what do you think? Can you explain it better?
I am not qualified to do so, but my own understanding is that, whilst God wants us to stay within the confines of His Divine Will, and thus recieve the benefits of His Divine Plan for our individual lives, He has purposed not to interfere in our exercise of “free will” and so His Permissive Will allows us to do things which do not fall within the ambit of His Divine Will, but will not lead us into temptation. This of course is only my understanding and so it is as always open to correction by those with more specific knowledge of the subject. Might I perhaps suggest Brother JReducation. Regard,O.N.
 
Jesus said that the gates of hell would not overcome His Church – which means that those who lead the Church can no guide it into falsehood – as would be the case if they mislead the faithful into believing that something with regards to the faith happened when it didn’t.
Why are you lecturing in a thread about Fatima when you know so little about it.

The prophecy warns of a loss of dogma of the faith, a great apostasy predicted in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 preceding the advent of Antichrist. A Catholic journal quotes Cardinal Ciappi, personal theologian to five popes as saying, “In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.” Fr. Malachi Martin affirmed on national radio that it involves satanic infiltration of the Church, apostasy, and a final pope coming under satanic control.

Sr. Lucia is quoted as referring to a time when the blind will lead the blind. The Third Secret begins with the line, “In Portugal, the dogma of the faith will always be preserved”, suggesting it will be lost elsewhere. We know this, because a person sent to interrogate Sr. Lucia explicitly stated this and it’s in the record, and Sr. Lucia later included it in her memoirs.

The Message of Akita warns of Satanic infiltration of the Church to the extent that altars are sacked, and of Cardinals opposing cardinals, and those in the Church who venerate the Blessed Virgin will be opposed by their confreres. Cardinal Ratzinger personally approved this message as Prefect for the CDF.

The Biblical verse from the Bible means used the word “prevail” which means at the end. It means during the time of the evil one, when all seems lost, Christ will return to defeat him and restore the Church.
 
And the Church used the SAME “Apostolic authority” to declare that the consecration was properly done. Why take their word on one but reject their word on the other? You have been asked this questions multiple times but refuse to answer.
Can you tell me which Pope said the Consecration was done and a source to substantiate this?
 
Why are you lecturing in a thread about Fatima when you know so little about it.
I know enough about it to trust the opinion of a Pope and Sister Lucia, the Seer of Fatima herself, on this matter. Who are more qualified to draw a more correct conclusion?
 
Re-read this thread. That question was answered more than once with quotes and supporting references provided.
The thread is 28 pages and I don’t have that much time to search it out. Since you made the statement that the Pope said it was done, I would like to know where I can read it from an outside out.
 
The prophecy warns of a loss of dogma of the faith, a great apostasy predicted in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 preceding the advent of Antichrist. A Catholic journal quotes Cardinal Ciappi, personal theologian to five popes as saying, “In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.” Fr. Malachi Martin affirmed on national radio that it involves satanic infiltration of the Church, apostasy, and a final pope coming under satanic control.
*To those who accept the Church’s leadership and guidance when she approves the apparitions but do not accept the Church’s leadership and guidance when she says that the consecration has been done.
I have a question.
Could it be possible that the satanic control that VitaminC mentions here be the very fact that we can not swallow our pride and follow our Church’s leadership and guidance all of the time instead of picking and choosing when we do follow?
Think about it.
If we keep working against the Pope and Church leaders, will they eventually “give in” to those who appose them and their leadership in all matters?
I so strongly believe that we live in the times when our Church Leaders need our confidence and support more than ever. If we do not learn to swollow our pride and stop challenging the Church in Her leadership and guidance then I believe we are playing right into Satan’s hands.
*
 
To those who accept the Church’s leadership and guidance when she approves the apparitions but do not accept the Church’s leadership and guidance when she says that the consecration has been done.
I have a question.
Could it be possible that the satanic control that VitaminC mentions here be the very fact that we can not swallow our pride and follow our Church’s leadership and guidance all of the time
instead of picking and choosing when we do follow?
Think about it.
If we keep working against the Pope and Church leaders, will they eventually “give in” to those who appose them and their leadership in all matters?
I so strongly believe that we live in the times when our Church Leaders need our confidence and support more than ever. If we do not learn to swollow our pride and stop challenging the Church in Her leadership and guidance then I believe we are playing right into Satan’s hands.
Excellent point 👍
 
The thread is 28 pages and I don’t have that much time to search it out. Since you made the statement that the Pope said it was done, I would like to know where I can read it from an outside out.
Neither do I have the time to keep re-answering the same question that was asked multiple times. The answer to your question is in this thread.
 
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