E
Eric_Hilbert
Guest
Please cease from snarky responses and remain on topic.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Several questions regarding the events at Fatima, Portugal in 1917...
- Status
O
ORD_NASILA
Guest
I not Catholic “simple soul”, but way I see it is like this. If you are pianist, but you not know all of piano music ever written, it not make you NOT a pianist does it? I imagine it same thing for Catholic. In any case who can truthfully say that they know all of the “unsearchable things of God ?” Not Fundamentalist, not Catholic; Not any person, Jew or Gentile, you agree? In any case, my opinion (for what it worth) is that we should endeavour to be Christian first, and Catholic, Fundamentalist, Baptist, Presbytarian, etc., ect., second. I believe that the less time spent on emphasising the things that divide us, then the quicker we shall see unity. 1 Cor. 1:12 & 13, “Now this I say, that everyone of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. (13) Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptised in the name of Paul?”
So I say to you in sincerety “simple soul”, you say “I do not belive I fully understand all of God’s Truths.” I reply to you fellow Christian, “Join the club!” In other words, don’t worry,
Regard, O.N.
O
ORD_NASILA
Guest
I sorry, but if this is true then all but one of my posts to this thread have been “off topic”.
Regard, ORD.
C
cathdoki
Guest
While it might be off topic, it was a valuable post. Plenty of posts end up being off topic by way of incorporating issues that are just a little to the side of the topic. When we start talking about a particular subject, inevitably there will be other things that are brought up that at least indirectly are involved. I think ORD’s post was a good post. So many people here are arguing as to whether a consecration has taken place. So many people on this forum are Christian and find it fun to attack other Christians. It’s called a superiority complex.
We all believe in Jesus the Christ! On the non-Catholic religions forum there are plenty of muslim posters telling us that we are wrong. Perhaps it would be a good idea to put some of our vigor into teaching them the Gospel, instead of trashing each other. Whether it is because they belong to a different church, or don’t believe a consecration has taken place, or how many angels fit on the head of a pin (yes that really was a thread), or so on and so on. Our job as Christians is to evangelize. Not each other, but first to bring those that deny Christ to Christ.
O
ORD_NASILA
Guest
Thank you cathdoki, but please, no more praise otherwise I become conceited. It O.K. I only joking - a little praise will lull me into a false sense of security - being a Fundamentalist on a Catholic website. Regard, ORD
" Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows." Matt.10:31.
C
cathdoki
Guest
Well! I’ll just have to tell you you’re a heretic! OF COURSE, I’M 100% JUST KIDDING AROUND!
Thank you for joining the CAF! I’m sure as a Christian with respect and love for other Christians you’ll have many valuable things to say. Just be prepared to be chastised from time to time by Catholic fundamentalists. Don’t give up though.
THEY WILL KNOW YOU BY YOUR LOVE FOR EACH OTHER
R
Robert_Burns
Guest
Thats an excellent point and likewise to add to what Gary is talking about - Any Catholic who has not done so needs to likewise complete what Our Blessed Mother asked us as Laity to Do - the Five First Saturday Devotions.
And to Pray the Holy Rosary every day - but not just pray it - but to Offer GOD reparation Through the Immaculate Heart of Mary for all the numerous Offenses being commited today.
We need action !!! From all of us !!! I completely echo what Gary is saying here.
Pax
O
ORD_NASILA
Guest
Love not only for Christians, but also for those souls who have not yet responded to invitation to become Christians. Regard, ORD.Well! I’ll just have to tell you you’re a heretic! OF COURSE, I’M 100% JUST KIDDING AROUND!
Thank you for joining the CAF! I’m sure as a Christian with respect and love for other Christians you’ll have many valuable things to say. Just be prepared to be chastised from time to time by Catholic fundamentalists. Don’t give up though.
THEY WILL KNOW YOU BY YOUR LOVE FOR EACH OTHER
N
nice2000
Guest
Hi Simple Soul,
There were several requests from of Our Lady and her son Jesus. Remember God the Father sent Our Mother and her son to us to warn us (entire world).
First, The Holy See to release the entire third secret by the year of 1960 Our Lady stated it would be clearer to understand by the world. That is the reason it was written down and sealed inside of an envelope. The three secrets were given to the three seers in the year of 1917. As of today, only part of the third secret has been revealed.
Second, to consecrate Russia to the Virgin Mary’s Immaculate heart. The request from heaven was for the Pope to do this along with the Bishops and priests. God chose the country Russia for a reason. When he asks us to do something we must do it exactly like he asks otherwise it will not work. As of today, there have been approximately six attempts of the consecration by several different Popes. All six attempts there was never a mention of the country Russia. Each Pope replaced the word Russia with the word World.
Third, to pray the rosary everyday and to do the five first Saturdays. The five first Saturdays is to go to confession and to meditate on the mysteries of the Rosary for the intention of the Consecration of Russia, and the release of the entire third secret.
There are many good promises from our Lady when one completes the five first Saturdays and pray the Rosary.
A great book to read on Fatima is “The Secret Still Hidden” written by Christine Ferrara. It has true facts and sources from other books and articles within it. Remember to research for yourself to find the truth, many will tell you that the conse ration of Russia has been done but they have been misled in to believing the untruth. I have done my research and found the truth. There are many books on Fatima. I have read most of them, each book I have read leads me to other interesting books and articles. When you compare and contrast the books and articles on Fatima, you will find the truth.
Patricia
B
beehumble
Guest
Originally Posted by simple soul View Post
Hi everyone,
I started to follow this thread because I was hopping to find out exactly what the requests and promises that Our Lady made were. But…it know seems to be only about whether Russia was or was not consecrated.
I am familiar with the general story of Fatima but I am fuzzy on Our Lady’s requests and promises so I was wondering if anyone would just bullet point the requests and promises made by Our Lady of Fatima. Or, maybe some one can recommend a book or website that will do this for me.
My thanks to anyone for their time.
All you need to do is read the three parts of the one secret of Fatima for yourself. From Lucia herself we have:
The first part is the vision of hell:
As Our Lady spoke these last words, she opened her hands once more, as she had done during the two previous months. The rays of light seemed to penetrate the earth, we saw as it were a sea of fire. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in huge fires, without weight or equilibrium, amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. ( It must have been this sight which caused me to cry out, as people say they heard me). The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repellent likeness to frightful and unknown animals, black and transparent like burning coals. Terrified and as if to plead for succour, we looked up at Our Lady, who said to us, so kindly and so sadly:
The second part is the coming persecutions of the world, the second world war, Russia spreading her errors and causing persecutions, the request of the Holy Father in union with the bishops to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. Blessed Mary also prophesizes that in the end, her Immaculate Heart will triumph, the Holy Father will make the consecration and Russia will be converted, and a period of peace will be given to the world:
You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius Xl. When you see a night illuminated by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecution of the Church and of the Holy Father.
To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she will be converted and a period of peace will be granted to the world. In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved; etc… Do not tell this to anybody. Francisco, yes, you may tell him.
"When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: '0 my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need.
The third part, released in the year 2000 during the beatification of Jacinta and Francisco, was the following vision:
*After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!’. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it’ a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father’. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God. *
Hi everyone,
I started to follow this thread because I was hopping to find out exactly what the requests and promises that Our Lady made were. But…it know seems to be only about whether Russia was or was not consecrated.
I am familiar with the general story of Fatima but I am fuzzy on Our Lady’s requests and promises so I was wondering if anyone would just bullet point the requests and promises made by Our Lady of Fatima. Or, maybe some one can recommend a book or website that will do this for me.
My thanks to anyone for their time.
All you need to do is read the three parts of the one secret of Fatima for yourself. From Lucia herself we have:
The first part is the vision of hell:
As Our Lady spoke these last words, she opened her hands once more, as she had done during the two previous months. The rays of light seemed to penetrate the earth, we saw as it were a sea of fire. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in huge fires, without weight or equilibrium, amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. ( It must have been this sight which caused me to cry out, as people say they heard me). The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repellent likeness to frightful and unknown animals, black and transparent like burning coals. Terrified and as if to plead for succour, we looked up at Our Lady, who said to us, so kindly and so sadly:
The second part is the coming persecutions of the world, the second world war, Russia spreading her errors and causing persecutions, the request of the Holy Father in union with the bishops to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. Blessed Mary also prophesizes that in the end, her Immaculate Heart will triumph, the Holy Father will make the consecration and Russia will be converted, and a period of peace will be given to the world:
You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius Xl. When you see a night illuminated by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecution of the Church and of the Holy Father.
To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she will be converted and a period of peace will be granted to the world. In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved; etc… Do not tell this to anybody. Francisco, yes, you may tell him.
"When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: '0 my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need.
The third part, released in the year 2000 during the beatification of Jacinta and Francisco, was the following vision:
*After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!’. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it’ a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father’. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God. *
B
beehumble
Guest
and:
On 13 June 1929 at Tuy, Spain, The Holy Trinity and Blessed Mary appeared to Sr. Lucia to request the act of consecration (fulfilling what she said in the second part: I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays.)
And a daily rosary is understood to have been requested - Our Lady of Fatima is also known as Our Lady of the Rosary.
That is what happened at Fatima. It was underscored by the Miracle of the Sun on 13 October 1917 during the final apparition.
On 13 June 1929 at Tuy, Spain, The Holy Trinity and Blessed Mary appeared to Sr. Lucia to request the act of consecration (fulfilling what she said in the second part: I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays.)
And a daily rosary is understood to have been requested - Our Lady of Fatima is also known as Our Lady of the Rosary.
That is what happened at Fatima. It was underscored by the Miracle of the Sun on 13 October 1917 during the final apparition.
J
JReducation
Guest
When we explain the miracle of Fatima or any other, let us always remember to tell people that these miracles are not Catholic doctrine. They are worthy of belief. Catholics are not boiund to believe them.
I agree that given so much information on them, it would be silly not to believe them. But we must represent the Church’s position, not our own. When we do represent our own position, we must always state that this is the case.
There are many adherents to the miracle of Fatima, including the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II and yours truly. But the Church is not morally bound to comply with these requests because they were communicated in a private revelation. The Church reserves the right to adopt a private revelation as part of her belief or to simply say that it is worthy of belief and leave it at that. That is the case with the miracles and messages of Fatima.
There are some private revelations that the Church has adopted, St. Faustina comes to mind, the Rule of St. Francis is another, the conversion of Paul and there are others, where the Lord spoke privately to people, but the Church took what he said as intended for everyone and made it pat of the life of the Church.
We do believe that Our Lady appeared at Fatima, because there is nothing in the apparitions that is contrary to the faith. Everything in the messages is consistent with the faith. As far as the requests are concerned, that’s really up to Church authority to comply or not according to the Church’s discretion. This gets tricky here, because even though we’re speaking about the Lord’s mother, even she does not outrank the pope. She would never ask us to turn against him or to dispute him. That’s not how she operates. She leads all men back to Christ through His Church, not around it.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
I agree that given so much information on them, it would be silly not to believe them. But we must represent the Church’s position, not our own. When we do represent our own position, we must always state that this is the case.
There are many adherents to the miracle of Fatima, including the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II and yours truly. But the Church is not morally bound to comply with these requests because they were communicated in a private revelation. The Church reserves the right to adopt a private revelation as part of her belief or to simply say that it is worthy of belief and leave it at that. That is the case with the miracles and messages of Fatima.
There are some private revelations that the Church has adopted, St. Faustina comes to mind, the Rule of St. Francis is another, the conversion of Paul and there are others, where the Lord spoke privately to people, but the Church took what he said as intended for everyone and made it pat of the life of the Church.
We do believe that Our Lady appeared at Fatima, because there is nothing in the apparitions that is contrary to the faith. Everything in the messages is consistent with the faith. As far as the requests are concerned, that’s really up to Church authority to comply or not according to the Church’s discretion. This gets tricky here, because even though we’re speaking about the Lord’s mother, even she does not outrank the pope. She would never ask us to turn against him or to dispute him. That’s not how she operates. She leads all men back to Christ through His Church, not around it.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
G
Greg57
Guest
J
JReducation
Guest
There is a copy of the newspaper of the time on this link. Does anyone know where one can find a copy of it online? I would love to read it.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
G
Greg57
Guest
I know these are out of print, but two very excellent books on Fatima are:
The Sun Danced at Fatima
Fatima: Hope of the World
both by Father Joseph A. Pelletier, Assumption Press
You might be able to find these at a library or somewhere on the internet.
The Sun Danced at Fatima
Fatima: Hope of the World
both by Father Joseph A. Pelletier, Assumption Press
You might be able to find these at a library or somewhere on the internet.
I
Insight
Guest
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
What I find most alarming and sad about Fatima, is that many of the later approved apparitions seem to continue to confirm the message of Fatima.
I often wonder about the idea of a part of Third Secret not being released also. From SR Lucys own book and what many who have said who knew her personally. The part that starts with the sentence…
“In Portugal, the dogma of the faithfull will always be preserved.” Its said this is the first sentence that are Our Lady of Fatimas words that have yet to be released. I find the argument on this very compelling.
I believe Cardinal Ratzinger who is obviously now the Pope, also made a comment on this about being the same message of Akita.
Eight years of investigating the Akita apparitions and after consulting with the Holy See (including Cardinal Ratzinger), approved the messages of Our Lady of Akita. He authorized, throughout his entire diocese, the veneration of our Holy Mother of Akita. A dossier was turned over to Cardinal Ratzinger at the Vatican who, after studying it for himself, reaffirmed that the events were credible and reliable and worthy of belief by all Catholics. Howard Dee, former Philippine ambassador to the Vatican, said in a 1998 interview with Inside the Vatican magazine: “Bishop Ito [the local bishop, now deceased] was certain Akita was an extension of Fatima, and Cardinal Ratzinger personally confirmed to me that these two messages, of Fatima and Akita, are essentially the same.” Part of the Akita message reads: “The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres. Churches and altars will be sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.”
Cardinal Ratzinger on the Third Secret - Only months after Bishop Ito approved the
message, Cardinal Ratzinger was interviewed on November 11, 1984 by Jesus magazine, a publication of the Pauline Sisters. Within this 1984 interview (titled “Here is Why the Faith is in Crisis”), published to millions in Italy, Cardinal Ratzinger acknowledged that he had read the Third Secret and that it speaks of “The dangers threatening the faith and the life of the Christian, and therefore the world, and also the importance of the last times.” Cardinal Ratzinger said that the Third Secret had been suppressed since 1960 “to avoid confusing religious prophecy with sensationalism.” He also said, “But the things contained in this Third Secret correspond to what is announced in Scripture and are confirmed by many other Marian apparitions…” As noted above, Howard Dee stated that "Cardinal Ratzinger personally confirmed to me that these two messages, of Fatima and Akita, are essentially the same.” Therefore, when Cardinal Ratzinger mentioned in his interview that the Third Secret corresponds to “other Marian apparitions,” this reference includes the Akita apparitions. But in a subsequent publication of the same interview in the famous Ratzinger Report, this language was mysteriously deleted. Apparently, Cardinal Ratzinger had said too much.
And there seems to much other evidence that confirms a missing part of the message yet to be revealed.
Nowhere ever has the sentence “In Portugal the dogme of the faithfull will be preserved” been revealed as of yet. Something seems not right about that.
According to the Fatima scholar, Bro. Michael of the Holy Trinity: “Along with the many historical facts and positive criteria already pointed out, in effect we are aware of a little sentence which is, in all certainty, an element of the authentic third Secret. It is this sentence which gives us the key: ‘Em Portugal se conservara sempre o dogma da fé, etc. In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved, etc.’ This little sentence which, curiously, has gone unnoticed by the majority of Fatima historians, is obviously of vital importance. Since Lucy’s Memoirs were published in their integral text, in effect we can make a decisive critical remark: in her third Memoir, written in July - August 1941, Sister Lucy had been content to mention the existence of a third part of the Secret, but as yet she had said nothing about it. A few months later, in her fourth Memoir, written between October - December 1941, she decided to say more. She recopied almost word for word the text of the third Memoir, but adding after the final words—’… and a certain period of peace will be granted to the world’—the new sentence: ‘Em Portugal se conservara sempre o dogma da fé, etc.’ Thus we now know the first sentence of the final Secret. This addition is definitely significant. For it is certain that Sister Lucy did not insert it here out of levity, but in the specific intention of showing us, in a veiled manner, the essential contents of the third Secret. Indeed in 1943, when Bishop da Silva had asked her to write down the text, and she was encountering insurmountable obstacles obeying this order, she declared that it was not absolutely necessary to do so, ‘since in a certain manner she had said it.’ [VSF, (Spanish Edition), Alonso, p. 64] Undoubtedly she was alluding to the ten words discreetly added in December, 1941, to the text of the great Secret—but added so discreetly that almost nobody noticed them. However, they are very enlightening when we stop and think about them.” (The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol. III, Bro. Michael of the Holy Trinity, pp. 683-684)
This is my biggest mystery though after studying this for some now, as with many others. Though by becoming familar with other message’s like Akita. The thoughts and words of the Blessed Mother become clear. Pray the Rosary, Pray for the Pope, Bishops,Priest etc.
God Bless, GT
I often wonder about the idea of a part of Third Secret not being released also. From SR Lucys own book and what many who have said who knew her personally. The part that starts with the sentence…
“In Portugal, the dogma of the faithfull will always be preserved.” Its said this is the first sentence that are Our Lady of Fatimas words that have yet to be released. I find the argument on this very compelling.
I believe Cardinal Ratzinger who is obviously now the Pope, also made a comment on this about being the same message of Akita.
Eight years of investigating the Akita apparitions and after consulting with the Holy See (including Cardinal Ratzinger), approved the messages of Our Lady of Akita. He authorized, throughout his entire diocese, the veneration of our Holy Mother of Akita. A dossier was turned over to Cardinal Ratzinger at the Vatican who, after studying it for himself, reaffirmed that the events were credible and reliable and worthy of belief by all Catholics. Howard Dee, former Philippine ambassador to the Vatican, said in a 1998 interview with Inside the Vatican magazine: “Bishop Ito [the local bishop, now deceased] was certain Akita was an extension of Fatima, and Cardinal Ratzinger personally confirmed to me that these two messages, of Fatima and Akita, are essentially the same.” Part of the Akita message reads: “The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres. Churches and altars will be sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.”
Cardinal Ratzinger on the Third Secret - Only months after Bishop Ito approved the
message, Cardinal Ratzinger was interviewed on November 11, 1984 by Jesus magazine, a publication of the Pauline Sisters. Within this 1984 interview (titled “Here is Why the Faith is in Crisis”), published to millions in Italy, Cardinal Ratzinger acknowledged that he had read the Third Secret and that it speaks of “The dangers threatening the faith and the life of the Christian, and therefore the world, and also the importance of the last times.” Cardinal Ratzinger said that the Third Secret had been suppressed since 1960 “to avoid confusing religious prophecy with sensationalism.” He also said, “But the things contained in this Third Secret correspond to what is announced in Scripture and are confirmed by many other Marian apparitions…” As noted above, Howard Dee stated that "Cardinal Ratzinger personally confirmed to me that these two messages, of Fatima and Akita, are essentially the same.” Therefore, when Cardinal Ratzinger mentioned in his interview that the Third Secret corresponds to “other Marian apparitions,” this reference includes the Akita apparitions. But in a subsequent publication of the same interview in the famous Ratzinger Report, this language was mysteriously deleted. Apparently, Cardinal Ratzinger had said too much.
And there seems to much other evidence that confirms a missing part of the message yet to be revealed.
Nowhere ever has the sentence “In Portugal the dogme of the faithfull will be preserved” been revealed as of yet. Something seems not right about that.
According to the Fatima scholar, Bro. Michael of the Holy Trinity: “Along with the many historical facts and positive criteria already pointed out, in effect we are aware of a little sentence which is, in all certainty, an element of the authentic third Secret. It is this sentence which gives us the key: ‘Em Portugal se conservara sempre o dogma da fé, etc. In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved, etc.’ This little sentence which, curiously, has gone unnoticed by the majority of Fatima historians, is obviously of vital importance. Since Lucy’s Memoirs were published in their integral text, in effect we can make a decisive critical remark: in her third Memoir, written in July - August 1941, Sister Lucy had been content to mention the existence of a third part of the Secret, but as yet she had said nothing about it. A few months later, in her fourth Memoir, written between October - December 1941, she decided to say more. She recopied almost word for word the text of the third Memoir, but adding after the final words—’… and a certain period of peace will be granted to the world’—the new sentence: ‘Em Portugal se conservara sempre o dogma da fé, etc.’ Thus we now know the first sentence of the final Secret. This addition is definitely significant. For it is certain that Sister Lucy did not insert it here out of levity, but in the specific intention of showing us, in a veiled manner, the essential contents of the third Secret. Indeed in 1943, when Bishop da Silva had asked her to write down the text, and she was encountering insurmountable obstacles obeying this order, she declared that it was not absolutely necessary to do so, ‘since in a certain manner she had said it.’ [VSF, (Spanish Edition), Alonso, p. 64] Undoubtedly she was alluding to the ten words discreetly added in December, 1941, to the text of the great Secret—but added so discreetly that almost nobody noticed them. However, they are very enlightening when we stop and think about them.” (The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol. III, Bro. Michael of the Holy Trinity, pp. 683-684)
This is my biggest mystery though after studying this for some now, as with many others. Though by becoming familar with other message’s like Akita. The thoughts and words of the Blessed Mother become clear. Pray the Rosary, Pray for the Pope, Bishops,Priest etc.
God Bless, GT
1
1234
Guest
My impression is that half or less of the population saw the whirling of the sun.
I also have heard about the remote witnesses but have no documentation.
There is quite a bit if information on mass hysteria available. If you are inquiring into events, you might might look into this. If you are making some sort of presentation to an open audience, you might have to field questions, so it’s wise to be prepared.
You might post a query on an atheist forum and see what you get in the way of responses and rebuttals. If you are going to present a case in front of a non-Catholic audience or are otherwise NOT preaching to the choir, it is wise to be prepared.
Atheists feel that the ultimate miracle is restoring an amputated limb. This has never been done. Sensory phenomena don’t pull a lot of weight.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Yet when these Miracles happen time after time, as in Zeituon Egypt again in 1969. When once again thousands witnessed a apparition of Our Lady confirmed with miracles of healing. And people who were not there refuse to listen and believe? We as the faithfull who truly believe and follow this faith are left with our hands tied. We Pray for non-believers. Our Lady showed the children of Fatima hell where many Souls go because there is no-one to Pray for them.
Most of what we as the believers do, is in the spirit of reverence and charity to all others. Not really chasing people around with Bibles and beating them over the head contrary to popular opinion. Its simply a strong feeling of faith confirmed through history.
And BTW Our Lady of Fatima wasn’t only referring to non-believers. “The most Holy Virgin is sad because nobody has paid attention to her message, neither the good or the bad.” Sr Lucy
God Bless, GT
Most of what we as the believers do, is in the spirit of reverence and charity to all others. Not really chasing people around with Bibles and beating them over the head contrary to popular opinion. Its simply a strong feeling of faith confirmed through history.
And BTW Our Lady of Fatima wasn’t only referring to non-believers. “The most Holy Virgin is sad because nobody has paid attention to her message, neither the good or the bad.” Sr Lucy
God Bless, GT
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Go to Fatima.org and you can call them and speak in person, or e-mail them, and they will supply you with all the information you seek and obviously know little about. And theres loads of info. on the sight. I don’t know of anyone who was there that didn’t see the MIracle of the Sun, nor was there anyone there who came foward to deny it. If you have “that” info all of us would love to see it.
God Bless. GT
- Status