Or for that matter cigarettes.So Governor, when are we going to drop that silly “abstinence-only” approach to heroin & cocaine?
Those who want to be good, strive to find out what most pleases God, and they strive to do it. Those who do not want to be good, look for any perceived loophole they can. They ask “What can I ‘get away with’”. They work very hard to rationalize away what they do not want to accept is true.If masturbation were always a mortal sin then every confessor I’ve always gone too would have to be branded a heretic for the advice they gave me. That would even include my spiritual director, who is quite loyal to the Church.
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.
Sincerely,2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.”
Logical error: “Everybody else is doing it, it must be OK.”Heck, I love the Douay-Rheims translation but it used to state that the effeminate couldn’t get into heaven. Do we really believe that today? No. There many teenagers that go through adolescence with masturbation. I believe the statistics say 99% do it and the other 1 % lie. I;m not about to write them all off to hell. At that stage it is simply practice for the actual marriage act anyhow.
Just because culpability can be lessened because of certain factos, does not mean something is not gravely wrong and should be avoided. It means that our God is merciful, not that He condones our sinful behavior.Yet even the Catechism states that there are a variety of factors that can reduce or even eliminate culpability. It retains its objective gravity but subjectively is a whole nother matter.
But I have been told, again by loyal priests, that if there is any doubt one cannot view it as a mortal sin. On this issue I will forever have a lingering doubt as I have been trying to explain.Just because culpability can be lessened because of certain factos, does not mean something is not gravely wrong and should be avoided. It means that our God is merciful, not that He condones our sinful behavior.
There is plenty of evidence it is a grave sin. That is not new teaching.That is Church teaching which was a probably a reaction to the Jansenist heresies. There is not much scriptural reference that masturbation will send one to hell.
The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today…
This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. Whatever the force of certain arguments of a biological and philosophical nature, which have sometimes been used by theologians, in fact both the Magisterium of the Church - in the course of a constant tradition - and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act.[19] The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes “the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love.”[20] All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship. Even if it cannot be proved that Scripture condemns this sin by name, the tradition of the Church has rightly understood it to be condemned in the New Testament when the latter speaks of “impurity,” “unchasteness” and other vices contrary to chastity and continence…
You seem to be more the gambling man than me! As you seem to suggest, reduced (or eliminated) culpability is no precise thing. How can we really tell? I suggest that only God can tell. Which means, that whenever we hinge our actions on a potential reduced culpability that can not be certain, we are playing Russian Roulette with our souls.But I have been told, again by loyal priests, that if there is any doubt one cannot view it as a mortal sin. On this issue I will forever have a lingering doubt as I have been trying to explain.
I’m simply going by my confessors advice, whose loyalty is not in question. I trust his more than those on these threads.You seem to be more the gambling man than me! As you seem to suggest, reduced (or eliminated) culpability is no precise thing. How can we really tell? I suggest that only God can tell. Which means, that whenever we hinge our actions on a potential reduced culpability that can not be certain, we are playing Russian Roulette with our souls.
Who in their right mind would do such a thing? Is the risk really worth it? The downside certainly must outweigh the upside!
Sincerely,
Dan
You seem to trust him more than the Church. Dangerous territory. When there is conflict of teaching, the higher authority must always be followed. Priests are subject to the bishops. Bishops are subject to the magesterium.I’m simply going by my confessors advice, whose loyalty is not in question. I trust his more than those on these threads.
By the gist of the Catechism I would get the impression that alot of the magisterium is in agreement.You seem to trust him more than the Church. Dangerous territory. When there is conflict of teaching, the higher authority must always be followed. Priests are subject to the bishops. Bishops are subject to the magesterium.
Further rationalization. Will it ever end?
Sincerely,
Dan
Do you really mean ‘gist’? The ‘gist’ is the main meaning. What do you think the main meaning of the catechism’s teaching of masturbation? Reading it with fully open eyes, what do the writers of the catechism want us to know first and foremost?By the gist of the Catechism I would get the impression that alot of the magisterium is in agreement.
According to the Church’s teaching, mortal sin, which is opposed to God, does not consist only in formal and direct resistance to the commandment of charity. It is equally to be found in this opposition to authentic love which is included in every deliberate transgression, in serious matter, of each of the moral laws…
It is likewise the Bishops’ mission to see that a sound doctrine enlightened by faith and directed by the Magisterium of the Church is taught in faculties of theology and in seminaries. Bishops must also ensure that confessors enlighten people’s consciences and that catechetical instruction is given in perfect fidelity to Catholic doctrine…
In the pastoral ministry, in order to form an adequate judgment in concrete cases, the habitual behavior of people will be considered in its totality, not only with regard to the individual’s practice of charity and of justice but also with regard to the individual’s care in observing the particular precepts of chastity. In particular, one will have to examine whether the individual is using the necessary means, both natural and supernatural, which Christian asceticism from its long experience recommends for overcoming the passions and progressing in virtue…