Sex Abuse in Catholic Church was Homosexual Problem, not Pedophilia: Vatican

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Anyone adult who sexually abuses a child is a pedophile.
So how far do you want to go with this definition? An 18-year-old boy having consentual sex with his 17-year-old girlfriend is pedophilia? The 17-year-old is legally a minor. The 18-year-old is legally an adult. This is statutory rape. I don’t think anyone would call it pedophilia. Correct labels are important for intelligent discussion.
 
I don’t see anything about whether harm to a child was committed by a homosexual and or a pedophile.
Exactly. This is why I said your attachment didn’t contradict the article from the OP.
joe clark:
Who cares what you call an adult in charge who violates the child, the law and the confidence in the church?
It isn’t actually “what you call” them that matters. It is the nature of their disoder. If you want to solve a problem, it is important to know what problem to solve.
joe clark:
As I stated this is a grand jury report from Philadelphia. There are many around the country if you look. I am also not interested in keeping score. No offense , but I sense the art of evasion and deflection when it comes to what label we should give the perpetrator. Anyone adult who sexually abuses a child is a pedophile. I don’t think anyone needs any more information than that.
It isn’t evasion or deflection, as I already explained. Your definition of “pedophile” is flawed, as miguel pointed out in his post. A pedophile is someone who preys on pre-pubescent children. Pedophiles typically don’t distinguish between boys or girls. Ephebophiles, on the other hand, prey on pubescent minors. They prey on minors whose gender is in line with their general inclination (opposite sex or same sex). More information is needed, in order for the Church to prevent future occurence, when it comes to priestly formation. Since 80% of the cases in the US were male, pubescent minors, the Church did take action with regards to the acceptance of homosexually-oriented candidates for the priesthood.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html
joe clark:
I am from the Philadelphia area I have moved 5 times in my life. Sadly, I found that in the report, sexual abuse was reported in every church I have attended. The same clergy that were identified by name, that were found involved in sexual abuse of a children, when found out, were just moved from parish to parish without the other knowing. It is clear that they prayed and they hoped and they transferred the abusers. The transferring continued until they ran out of locations and patience. The people in charge were knowing and were wrong to do this. Cleaning your own house is much more difficult. Sin is also evil not acted upon.
This is/was a major problem, but it is not the focus of the article in the OP. You are correct that the Church erred in transferring abusers (regardless of whether they were pedophiles or ephebophiles). I think hope and pray that this has been handled, so that future cases will be handled swiftly and correctly. My understanding is that the Church thought that such transgressors were “fixable” through psychological therapy. Obviously, a priest who acts in this manner should be placed in a role where they don’t work closely with minors.
 
Are any of you taking into account that some reports in the media’s dictatations are or may be false accusations?

There was a man who had been abused by a priest approx 35 years ago, in Pennsylvania. The priest had abused others besides him, and had been taken away from priestly duties since. But then a man who wanted repayment, laid false legal accusations against a truly good priest who was innocent of this accusation. After all the legal and spiritual attrocities, this innocent priest went through, who had even been left to feel abandoned by his respected bishop, committed suicide by jumping off a bridge.

How many of you are so eager to believe any word of scandal against others that you would not consider what you are saying? Why are you all so eager to defend yourselves? To Whom does your faith belong? Yourselves, or God the Most High King, Who reigns over all creation - the just and the unjust?

Truly, I desire for you all the Peace and healing Truth-Love of Christ.
MeghanEmber88
 
Very good point Meghan, as calumny and slander are sins which rarely are discussed. In this era genuine abuse, it must be hard for a falsely accused priest to mount a credible defense. May God’s love bless those poor soul’s who have been slandered and falsely accused. But, for the guilty, the lowest level of Hell is too luxurious an abode for such degenerates, in my view. It is, after all, the one sin for which our merciful Lord had no forgiveness whatsoever. He was very clear on this matter. The church must stick strictly to the Gospels in these matters, otherwise, the risk of suspected complicity will remain. Zero tolerance must be the hardline stance regarding matters of child abuse within the Church.
 
Good point indeed.

"Prosecutors, victims’ advocates, and media had for three years been spinning legends of Paul R. Shanley’s sexual insatiability, portraying him, in the words of one victims’ rights proponent, as “the worst of the worst” in the latest wave of priestly abuse scandals. But as its January 18 trial date approached, the Massachusetts child-rape case against the former Roman Catholic priest appeared to be unraveling strand by strand, with four accusers dwindling to one.

…]

The charges against Shanley have a strong subtext of homophobia. The January 31, 2002 Boston Globe article that spawned the case – a McCarthyite exercise in innuendo – seemed predicated on the idea that a gay priest who ran a youth ministry would of course prey on his flock. The one above-ground accuser the Globe was able to produce, however, had entered into a consensual relationship with Shanley at age 20."

ncrj.org/Shanley/JimShanley2.html
 
For centuries, sexual abuse of children was an acceptable part of the very fabric of ancient Greek and Roman culture. The sex scandals of recent decades in the Roman Catholic Church are insignificant compared to what went on centuries ago when the Church ruled over Europe. None of this is new.

I do believe that the current problem is more of a result of homosexual men being drawn to the priesthood due to the celibacy mandate. Somehow they view it as a way to make mom and dad proud without having the pressure of having a wife and children. Once settled into the priesthood, other homosexual men are encountered. It is the perfect storm for trouble.

The reality is that there are many good men entering the priesthood who are not gay. It’s my opinion that the gay men entering the priesthood are of good intent but overcome by temptation and opportunity.
 
I do believe that the current problem is more of a result of homosexual men being drawn to the priesthood due to the celibacy mandate. Somehow they view it as a way to make mom and dad proud without having the pressure of having a wife and children. Once settled into the priesthood, other homosexual men are encountered. It is the perfect storm for trouble.
You may believe it but this theory has no credibity and is shot down time and time again.

As for the Church being the conveyer of all things evil during the Middle Ages, that too is a myth propagated by Christians trying to follow Christ outside of His Church.

You are entitled to your opinion and necessarily entitled to being wrong. Celibacy does not cause homosexuality. Incident rates of pedophilia are similar in the Catholic Church and Protestants where the clergy/ministers/celebrities are not required to be celibate.
 
Celibacy does not cause homosexuality. Incident rates of pedophilia are similar in the Catholic Church and Protestants where the clergy/ministers/celebrities are not required to be celibate.
Celibacy does not* cause *homosexuality. Many good men have lived celibate and served honorably. However, the celibacy mandate of the priesthood gives homosexual men a place to go so not to disgracing their families. In other words, friends and family will not wonder why 30 year old “Jimmy” doesn’t get married… or has never been seen with a girlfiend. Although the trend may be starting to slow, there is a huge gay subculture within the priesthood. Once in that environment, those that violate do so because they are overcome by temptation.

You should read “Goodbye Good Men” by catholic writer Michael Rose.
 
I did read it.

Perhaps the priesthood does offer a santuary to homosexual men. However, they are still bound by their vows to remain celibate. That doesn’t mean the priesthood is an escape from this affliction, they still need to feel God’s call. You are disrespecting the sacrament by suggesting it is a gay retreat.

Why do non-Catholic clergy fall to temptation?
 
I did read it.

Perhaps the priesthood does offer a santuary to homosexual men. However, they are still bound by their vows to remain celibate. That doesn’t mean the priesthood is an escape from this affliction, they still need to feel God’s call. You are disrespecting the sacrament by suggesting it is a gay retreat.

Why do non-Catholic clergy fall to temptation?
San Francisco is a “gay retreat”… The priesthood is used by some homosexual men not to revel in promiscuity, but to escape their sexuality altogether. Once in, these men come face to face with temptations of the flesh just like the rest of us. Why? Because we have a sinful human nature. I would suggest that some of these men do in fact end up treating the priesthood as a “gay retreat”. I would encourage all to read Michael Rose’s “Goodbye Good Men”. He addresses this very problem in depth.
 
But, for the guilty, the lowest level of Hell is too luxurious an abode for such degenerates, in my view. It is, after all, the one sin for which our merciful Lord had no forgiveness whatsoever. He was very clear on this matter. The church must stick strictly to the Gospels in these matters, otherwise, the risk of suspected complicity will remain. Zero tolerance must be the hardline stance regarding matters of child abuse within the Church.
I agree that it isn’t to be tolerated, but where in Scripture exactly did Christ say that He has no forgiveness whatsoever to those who abuse children. What about those who abuse Truth? If I am correct, He did not say that He would not forgive, but that “if anyone causes a little one who believes in Me to sin, it would have been better for him to have a boulder tied around his neck and be hurled into the sea” or something to that effect… I don’t have my Bible directly in front of me right now. The chance that someone has to reconcile with God is always constant because of His constancy in His supreme goodness, and we, as His creatures and His children, are not anointed by Him to declare otherwise about anyone - because then we judge, saying “[this person] deserves [this].”

The Bride of Christ absolutely does not teach that any human being in is Hell… only the angels who freely chose to contribute to its making.

Peace in Christ,
MeghanEmber88
 
One cannot abuse the “Truth”, for it is inviolable. I stand by what I wrote. Your opinions regarding the nonexistence of Hell and belief that the prospects for mercy exist for chiuld rapists have been duly noted. I, respectfully, disagree with your perspectives.
 
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Ockham:
Ockham, It’s because they are sinners too!

😉
 
Exactly. Priests are sinners too. At this point you have yet to prove celibacy leads to homosexuality, child abuse, or anything else negative. Any other point you’d like to try and make?
 
Exactly. Priests are sinners too. At this point you have yet to prove celibacy leads to homosexuality, child abuse, or anything else negative. Any other point you’d like to try and make?
I never said that celibacy leads to homosexuality. That was never my position! You are swinging your fists through the air trying to punch an imaginary foe.

:rolleyes:
 
Are any of you taking into account that some reports in the media’s dictatations are or may be false accusations?

There was a man who had been abused by a priest approx 35 years ago, in Pennsylvania. The priest had abused others besides him, and had been taken away from priestly duties since. But then a man who wanted repayment, laid false legal accusations against a truly good priest who was innocent of this accusation. After all the legal and spiritual attrocities, this innocent priest went through, who had even been left to feel abandoned by his respected bishop, committed suicide by jumping off a bridge.

How many of you are so eager to believe any word of scandal against others that you would not consider what you are saying? Why are you all so eager to defend yourselves? To Whom does your faith belong? Yourselves, or God the Most High King, Who reigns over all creation - the just and the unjust?

Truly, I desire for you all the Peace and healing Truth-Love of Christ.
MeghanEmber88
The media in general and news media is one thing, they are in it to shock and sell a product. Grand Juries have standards and practices when handling evidence. There is a bar with reasonable doubt and probable cause used. I would take the findings of a grand jury as serious. It is all our hope that people who accuse falsely will be discovered and the people who are guilty of the crime shall be punished.
 
What is the difference if a priest and or member of the clergy sexually abused a child was:

A: A homosexual or
B: A pedophile??

This doesn’t make any difference, they are both guilty as they are an adult and they are abusing a young person under the age of 18.

And the answer being given is: There’s more of them in Public school. Where did this study come from? Unlike private school, public school has parents in the faces of the administration and the teachers. The ACLU has represented students, parents get lawyers and public schools afford rights that you sign away in private schools. I went to private and public schools in the 60’s and 70’s and if you are going to get away with abuse, it’s not going to be in the public schools.

I still don’t understand what position people are taking here? Is this an attempt to diffuse an uncomfortable subject?
 
A pedophile is someone who sees children in a sexual way and acts on it. A homosexual is attracted to adult members of the same sex. I suggest that if you find a sixteen year old member of your gender sexually attractive then you are not a pedophile, but a homosexual. Paul Shanley of the Boston Scandal is gay, broke his vows of celibacy, but is not a pedophile. I know when I was sixteen if a man made an advance at me it wouldn’t be welcome nor reciprocated. Children are mostly powerless against the advances of an adult. These would be the differences.
 
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