Sex abuse in the Eastern Churches?

[lucy212]

A reasonable requirement for prosecution is verfiability.

Me, I have a reasonable doubt, the requisite standard for criminal trials, if there is no physical (non-testimonial) evidence. Many sexual abuse cases DO have physical evidence. And those usually go forth to trial or the offender takes a plea.

The problem is that most of the so-called abused…

You get a lot of “supressed memory” issues. Recent studies have shown suppressed memory to be quite unreliable…
eyewitnesses are EXTREMELY unreliable, scientifically. Study after study has shown this.

Now, people are coming forward after 20+ years, and claiming abuses, abuses which can not be proven scientifically…

If the bishop had numerous reports, and hid the offender, he should be retired to a monastery, along with those he hid after they serve their jail time.

The problem is that many of the so called abuse victims are winning by settlement with nothing more than an allegation that has no face value.

Thank you for your honest opinion…and since I have had very few of actually willing or care enough to say what they really think, I am concluding that your opinion reflects the “average Catholic in the pew”.

I have waited a few days to respond…my first reaction was to respond to all the misconceptions, misinformation, and what I feel are grave errors in these perceptions, but I am not going to do that… it’s not fair to call you out, ask for honesty, and use what you offered in good faith as an opportunity to try to “re-educate”, in hope of changing your view.:knight2:

I am still not sure what to do with the answers I am getting, but they seem honest, consistent, and sincerely thought out and held with conviction, and seem free of any conflict in conscience.
***But I think I am gaining some insight and understanding, and this is helpful in helping me resolve some of my feelings of anger and betrayal…at serious discrepancies with what the Church says and the full, objective Truth…which the church is supposed to uphold, not define…but that seems to be part of the sad confusion here.

---

I just couldn’t understand what internal dialogue allowed intelligent, good people, who love God, and want to do His will, to abide with an untroubled conscience the irreconcilable dissonance if they have availed themselves at all of even the smallest amount of the widely available information that is more unbiased, extensive, detailed, scientifically sound, and factual, and independent the bishops, the mainstream media, and these shadowy, unnamed mysterious “anti-Catholic forces”.

I couldn’t fathom how these good people could accept the line that the Church and the Bishops faced this scandal with “dignity and courage” if they had read even a small sample reports of the Grand Jury investigations, court transcripts, legal dispositions from accused priests and the bishops accused of the cover up and evasion of the problem.

And I did not know if any had even had as much as a casual face to face conversation with someone whose youth and life has been devastated by this abuse; and if they had, what in the world did they do with this? Suppress what they had just experienced, convinced themselves that this person was somehow either a very good liar, motivated by financial
gain, or some poor sick delusional soul, who had a “bad experience” with the church and projected all the bad things in their life onto the Roman Catholic Church.

I think I am finally realizing something…that the credentials of truth, accuracy, reality, even your own conscience telling you that what the Church has said in regard to this scandal is not right, will never override the credentials of Authority of the Church and your obligation to accept whatever they tell you.
If your conscience doesn’t match what the Church teaches, then your conscience is still somehow under the influence of sin, and you must continue to let the Church correct it.

People believe that they are doing the right thing, what God and the Church require of them.

There are exceptions, and I am sure many shades of this.

**Sincere gratitude to those who have personally know and have openly shared their private grief and offer their support-it is a costly gift of mercy and grace you extend and I don’t have enough words to thank you.
**:console:

I have not yet be banned for my questions, and thank the moderator for the latitude allowed so far.

Again, I am not sure what to do with this, or how this affects my faith, and being a part of the Body of Christ.

Pray for me, for us all…we are real, and most of us do not lie, and do not want your money or the destruction of the Church…

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Thank you for your honest opinion…
Pray for me, for us all…we are real, and most of us do not lie, and do not want your money or the destruction of the Church…

Lucy you write much, but at times it is so Stream of conscious it is difficult to understand what you are ultimately looking to have answered.

I have read, for instance, this sentence about a half a dozen times, and while I THINK I might know what you are trying to offer, it really is not clear to me.

I just couldn’t understand what internal dialogue allowed intelligent, good people, who love God, and want to do His will, to abide with an untroubled conscience the irreconcilable dissonance if they have availed themselves at all of even the smallest amount of the widely available information that is more unbiased, extensive, detailed, scientifically sound, and factual, and independent the bishops, the mainstream media, and these shadowy, unnamed mysterious “anti-Catholic forces”.

I am not really certain how this is an Eastern-Catholic-specific sort of issue.

When you write:

I am not sure I agree that this is not personal for the majority. It may not top 51%, but most people I talk knows someone, who has been affected, but knowing and actually being willing to enter into what the experience is like is something else.

I am not sure I can agree. This seems to suggest that a good deal of us have to deal with this beyond the headlines. In fact less than 1.8% of the priests out there have even been so much as accused.

When you write the following, I think it becomes clearer…

I couldn’t fathom how these good people could accept the line that the Church and the Bishops faced this scandal with “dignity and courage” if they had read even a small sample reports of the Grand Jury investigations, court transcripts, legal dispositions from accused priests and the bishops accused of the cover up and evasion of the problem

A small or large sample of crime reports would show a great deal of, well, crime. Not to dismiss the matter or appear to be comfortable with the statistics, but honestly, it my 30+ years of being Catholic, working in different parishes, knowing different priests, these crimes are not the face of what I saw.

On a ship in the ocean in a rainstorm at night, the whole world looks dark and wet.

But to suggest that this is the Catholic experience in its entirety (not saying you are) would be well misinformed.

Through the thread there seems to be about a half dozen, or more questions rolled into this issue.

1. 
   *]What are the spiritual effects of abuse on a vicitm?
   *]Is sexual abuse and marital intimacy equally to be understood in light of “and the two shall become one flesh”?
   *]Is this found in the Eastern Churches?
   *]How can this happen in the Catholic Church if she has truth?
   *]Is there a difference or distinction between upholding and defining Truth?"
   *]How can people stay Catholic when bad things are shown in the Catholic Church?
   
   I’d like to help, but I think the only thing I can do is pray. You can contact me via private message if you would have an interest in speaking with some religous sisters I know who may be able to offer some more insightful thinking.

 

[Woodstock]

I am concluding that your opinion reflects the “average Catholic in the pew”.

The average Catholic is not on Catholic Answers and definitely isn’t on the Eastern Catholicism board. He probably isn’t in a pew, either, if we are going by self-identification. Factors which further throw you off include self-selection instead of random assignment both in registering for Catholic Answers and reading and responding to the thread. What I mean is that you are very far from the average Catholic in the pew here. Please don’t base decisions which affect your salvation on the responses on a message board.

it’s not fair to call you out, ask for honesty, and use what you offered in good faith as an opportunity to try to “re-educate”, in hope of changing your view.:knight2:

Can you start another thread? I don’t know where it would go. Family life or spirituality maybe? It won’t get to everyone, but it could touch a few people.

I just couldn’t understand what internal dialogue…

I do not believe that the average Catholic in the pew has any concept that such documentation exists and is readily available and I definitely don’t believe that he has read any of it. We live in a sound byte culture and people get their information from the edutainment they call the news. Have you see the statistics of how many people have read a single book in the last year? It is sad.

I couldn’t fathom how these good people could accept the line that the Church and the Bishops faced this scandal with “dignity and courage” if they had read even a small sample reports of the Grand Jury investigations, court transcripts, legal dispositions from accused priests and the bishops accused of the cover up and evasion of the problem.

Lucy, they haven’t. The average Catholic hasn’t read reports about how an abortion is performed, she hasn’t read the reports inside the birth control she is taking, he hasn’t read the reports about the Iraq war, she hasn’t read the Bible in years, he hasn’t ever seen a catechism, he hasn’t read a saint’s biography, she hasn’t read the platform for the political candidate she supports, he hasn’t read the fine print on his mortgage. If they haven’t taken the time to read these important documents which directly affect them and they know are readily available, why would they seek out documents they don’t know about that don’t directly affect them? Lucy, they really don’t know.

And I did not know if any had even had as much as a casual face to face conversation with someone whose youth and life has been devastated by this abuse…

Sadly, you probably would encounter people like that. They aren’t living the Gospel and are terrible examples of the faith. Do you remember the parable of the sower and the seeds?Luke 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed, some fell along the path, and was trodden under foot, and the birds of the air devoured it. 6 And some fell on the rock; and as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture. 7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns grew with it and choked it. 8 And some fell into good soil and grew, and yielded a hundredfold.
Anyone who would treat you that way is not planted in the good soil. He is being trodden, devoured, scorched, and choked to death. People like that need your witness, strength, and faith to call them to a life in God. What they do with it is their choice. You can’t base your faith on them. Plant yourself in the good soil, immerse yourself with the sacraments, and you’ll see the beauty of a garden growing rich and bountiful around you. Stay among the thorns and you, too, will be scorched, choked, and devoured. Don’t stay around people like that!

I think I am finally realizing something…

Lucy, this couldn’t be further from the sad reality. The average Catholic in the pew doesn’t care at all what the Church teaches or about forming his conscience in line with the Church. That’s *why *they don’t care! They think the Gospel can be picked apart to only have the nice flowery health and wealth stuff. They think anything which makes them uncomfortable is bad. They think anything they don’t see and touch doesn’t exist. They kill their own babies in their own wombs and support other people doing the same! If they can do that to their own children, what would they care about you or yours? Lucy, it is hard to imagine, but they are spiritually depraved and far worse off than you. You are struggling. You are trying. They accept it and call it good. Don’t look at those seeds who wither and die. Look for the people who are flowering and producing bountiful crop. You have enough misery in your life. Look for the people who place God at the center of theirs.

I’m praying for you.