sex abuse

[debraran]

I opened my paper today in CT and again saw another article on page 2 about the sex abuse scandal. This one was in Rhode Island and they went on about the trials and having handwritten notes from the bishop saying “for confidential reasons, Father so and so has to be transferred at once and not reassigned to his area”. I try to put it all in perspective but why were so many of them so dumb about this?? I know it exists everywhere but the handling of it by so many priests and bishops leaves me with so many questions. This particular priest was putting his hands down some young boys pants…what made them think another young boy in another town would be any different? How do you handle these questions?

 

[awalt]

I say it’s horrible, we should pray for the abuser and the victims. I also say it’s a popular story to report on, but it’s an affliction common among many groups –

Teachers
archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml
cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/24/opinion/main1933687.shtml
insidebayarea.com/argus/oped/ci_7513815

Non-Catholic Christians
christianpost.com/article/20070618/28035_Released_Figures_Offer_Glimpse_into_Protestant_Sex_Abuse_Problems.htm

Homosexuals in general:
Homosexuals are three times as likely to be pedophiles as heterosexual men. Although exclusive pedophilia (adult attraction to prepubescent children) is an extreme and rare phenomenon, one third of homosexual men are attracted to teenage boys (Jenkins, Priests and Pedophilia). The seduction of teenage boys by homosexual men is a well-documented phenomenon. This form of deviant behavior is the most common type of clerical abuse and is directly connected to homosexual behavior.

From one article I read:
There’s absolutely no evidence that priests are more likely to abuse children than are other groups of men. The use and abuse of children as objects for the sexual gratification of adults is epidemic in all classes, professions, religions, and ethnic communities across the globe, as figures on child pornography, incest, and child prostitution make abundantly clear. Pedophilia (the sexual abuse of a prepubescent child) among priests is extremely rare, affecting only 0.3% of the entire population of clergy. This figure, cited in the book Pedophiles and Priests by non-Catholic scholar, Philip Jenkins, is from the most comprehensive study to date, which found that only one out of 2,252 priests considered over a thirty-year period was afflicted with pedophilia. In the recent Boston scandal, only four of the more than eighty priests labeled by the media as “pedophiles” are actually guilty of molesting young children.

Pedophilia is a particular type of compulsive sexual disorder in which an adult (man or woman) abuses prepubescent children. The vast majority of the clerical sex-abuse scandals now coming to light do not involve pedophilia. Rather, they involve ephebophilia — homosexual attraction to adolescent boys. While the total number of sexual abusers in the priesthood is much higher than those guilty of pedophilia, it still amounts to less than 2 percent — comparable to the rate among married men (Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests).

In the wake of the current crisis in the Church, other religious denominations and non-religious institutions have admitted to having similar problems with both pedophilia and ephebophilia among the ranks of their clergy. There’s no evidence that Catholic prelates are more likely to be pedophiles than Protestant ministers, Jewish leaders, physicians, or any other institution in which adults are in a position of authority and power over children.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I opened my paper today in CT and again saw another article on page 2 about the sex abuse scandal. This one was in Rhode Island and they went on about the trials and having handwritten notes from the bishop saying “for confidential reasons, Father so and so has to be transferred at once and not reassigned to his area”. I try to put it all in perspective but why were so many of them so dumb about this?? I know it exists everywhere but the handling of it by so many priests and bishops leaves me with so many questions. This particular priest was putting his hands down some young boys pants…what made them think another young boy in another town would be any different? How do you handle these questions?

These priests are of course human beings with problems, and are criminals. Human beings have faults and as you say it’s a major societial problem in general 80 % of the abuse is among family members. On top of that society keep promoting that Homosexuality is normal and “OK”, society is going to have problems when we allow sexual perversion like this to be “OK”.

 

[debraran]

First off, I’ve known many homosexuals and they never would abuse children…they had long time partners and although I might disapprove of the sexual part, they were good people, charitable and kind. I would never paint anyone with a broad brush.
I also realize we aren’t alone, my problem is how it was handled. How many" smart" men, men elevated in the church, men tellling others not to do these things, let it happen with their own. The sick priests are one thing, the “enablers” another. Not to have the “saintly priest” image tarnished, they did so much more harm than good. You could link stories of other abuse for weeks, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that they hid years of abuse and didn’t care if more children were hurt, as long as it “wasn’t in their backyard”. THAT is what I am having trouble with. Fr. Groechel said, he has no answers, maybe the shame was too much, but it’s no excuse. I just wondered how to answer about it. I mention the percentages, I mention the fact it isn’t “just us” but it always sounds so lame. Prayer is important, but you can’t have these things continue…I really believe if something like this happened again, the church would suffer long term damage they wouldn’t be able to arise from for a very, very long time.

Also, although I know abuse occurs in other religions, you don’t hear about anyone taking Rabbi so and so to court very often or anything lilke that. Money is money, if that many were abused, they would take them to court too I would think.

 

[deb1]

Also, although I know abuse occurs in other religions, you don’t hear about anyone taking Rabbi so and so to court very often or anything lilke that. Money is money, if that many were abused, they would take them to court too I would think.

You would only hear about such a case if the media reported on it. The media has proved itself to be biased in such reporting.

 

[dmelosi]

When I talk about this when other bring it up, I simply tell them that there is no excuse for the abuse or the cover up. I am upset that people are doing these things that hurt the Church, but humans do make mistakes and these have been bad ones. That does not change the fact about the truth of what the Church teaches.

Thank you for these sources, I will use them.

I say it’s horrible, we should pray for the abuser and the victims. I also say it’s a popular story to report on, but it’s an affliction common among many groups –

Teachers
archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml
cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/24/opinion/main1933687.shtml
insidebayarea.com/argus/oped/ci_7513815

Non-Catholic Christians
christianpost.com/article/20070618/28035_Released_Figures_Offer_Glimpse_into_Protestant_Sex_Abuse_Problems.htm

Homosexuals in general:
Homosexuals are three times as likely to be pedophiles as heterosexual men. Although exclusive pedophilia (adult attraction to prepubescent children) is an extreme and rare phenomenon, one third of homosexual men are attracted to teenage boys (Jenkins, Priests and Pedophilia). The seduction of teenage boys by homosexual men is a well-documented phenomenon. This form of deviant behavior is the most common type of clerical abuse and is directly connected to homosexual behavior.

From one article I read:
There’s absolutely no evidence that priests are more likely to abuse children than are other groups of men. The use and abuse of children as objects for the sexual gratification of adults is epidemic in all classes, professions, religions, and ethnic communities across the globe, as figures on child pornography, incest, and child prostitution make abundantly clear. Pedophilia (the sexual abuse of a prepubescent child) among priests is extremely rare, affecting only 0.3% of the entire population of clergy. This figure, cited in the book Pedophiles and Priests by non-Catholic scholar, Philip Jenkins, is from the most comprehensive study to date, which found that only one out of 2,252 priests considered over a thirty-year period was afflicted with pedophilia. In the recent Boston scandal, only four of the more than eighty priests labeled by the media as “pedophiles” are actually guilty of molesting young children.

Pedophilia is a particular type of compulsive sexual disorder in which an adult (man or woman) abuses prepubescent children. The vast majority of the clerical sex-abuse scandals now coming to light do not involve pedophilia. Rather, they involve ephebophilia — homosexual attraction to adolescent boys. While the total number of sexual abusers in the priesthood is much higher than those guilty of pedophilia, it still amounts to less than 2 percent — comparable to the rate among married men (Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests).

In the wake of the current crisis in the Church, other religious denominations and non-religious institutions have admitted to having similar problems with both pedophilia and ephebophilia among the ranks of their clergy. There’s no evidence that Catholic prelates are more likely to be pedophiles than Protestant ministers, Jewish leaders, physicians, or any other institution in which adults are in a position of authority and power over children.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Homosexuals are three times as likely to be pedophiles as heterosexual men.

This is not true. In one Denver hospital where over 300 vicitms of pedophilia were treated in a year, only TWO cases were same-sex abuse, and only ONE was male on male. This is MUCH lower than the estimated rate of homosexuality in the general population.

 

[deb1]

When I talk about this when other bring it up, I simply tell them that there is no excuse for the abuse or the cover up. I am upset that people are doing these things that hurt the Church, but humans do make mistakes and these have been bad ones. That does not change the fact about the truth of what the Church teaches.

Thank you for these sources, I will use them.

I think that this is the best response.But you have to understand if someone is determined to hate the Church they will do so regardless of the facts or what you response is.

 

[deb1]

Homosexuals are three times as likely to be pedophiles as heterosexual men.

This is not true. In one Denver hospital where over 300 vicitms of pedophilia were treated in a year, only TWO cases were same-sex abuse, and only ONE was male on male. This is MUCH lower than the estimated rate of homosexuality in the general population.

I know that some academics break down child abuse into those acts committed on prepubescent children and those committed on adolescent children. I might be wrong but I think that some studies consider pedophilia only to those acts committed against younger children. So the results could get skewed.

 

[Jestocost]

I opened my paper today in CT and again saw another article on page 2 about the sex abuse scandal. This one was in Rhode Island and they went on about the trials and having handwritten notes from the bishop saying “for confidential reasons, Father so and so has to be transferred at once and not reassigned to his area”. I try to put it all in perspective but why were so many of them so dumb about this?? I know it exists everywhere but the handling of it by so many priests and bishops leaves me with so many questions. This particular priest was putting his hands down some young boys pants…what made them think another young boy in another town would be any different? How do you handle these questions?

I know what you’re saying.In some ways it’s even harder to understand the actions of the bishops than that of the priests. I think that the answer is that they allowed themselves to be distracted by the psychology. They looked at the problem as one of a psychological disorder, pedophilia, that could, at least in theory, be treated.

What they forgot was that the problem wasn’t the inclination, it was the sin and the law. All, or at least very nearly all, priests face sexual temptations. They need to resist these temptations, starting and therefore hopefully ending with lust. Had they looked at it this way they would have been more likely to realize that it is far harder to resist a sin when you have committed it before.

The other thing they forgot or ignored was the law. In this respect they did handle it just like a priest who had an adult affair. They worried about repetion only with the same person and about containing the scandal, not about the fact that a law was actually broken as well.

 

[rtconstant]

This is not true. In one Denver hospital where over 300 victims of pedophilia were treated in a year, only TWO cases were same-sex abuse, and only ONE was male on male. This is MUCH lower than the estimated rate of homosexuality in the general population.

This is true, but I think what you’re speaking to and what the OP is speaking to are two different things. Legally and culturally we typically view all sex activity with minors as pedophilia. However, age of consent is usually in the later teens and there is a difference psychologically speaking between someone who is attracted to small children and teenagers.

Pedophiles or those attracted to small children and in truth “heterosexuals” are more likely to victimize these children. Though I would argue that in reality it should be considered its own orientation. Because pedophiles typically don’t care what gender their victim is. The children are too young to really outwardly to display their gender (aside from clothes) anyway.

Attraction to adolescents though is different. Here orientation of the abuser is important as they will typically go after whatever gender they are attracted to.

I might be wrong but I think that most cases of abuse amongst the clergy (all religions) is most likely to be with adolescents so if it is a boy being abused (which seems to be the one’s making the news) then the abuser would be homosexual (or perhaps bi).

 

[Teflon93]

Homosexuals are three times as likely to be pedophiles as heterosexual men.

This is not true. In one Denver hospital where over 300 vicitms of pedophilia were treated in a year, only TWO cases were same-sex abuse, and only ONE was male on male. This is MUCH lower than the estimated rate of homosexuality in the general population.

It is also a completely irrelevant sample if true.

You can discover the issue by thinking about what “in one Denver hospital” means.

This is the equivalent of predicting the presidential election winner based on the votes of one Denver hospital.

 

[Teflon93]

There are several relevant points to consider.

1. False allegations do happen. Remember the daycare center where the kids under the prodding of social workers claimed to have been sexually abused? Years and many ruined lives later, these claims were discredited.
2. There are many people who for a variety of reasons hate the Catholic Church. Some of these do not shy from making false allegations, particularly when these are so welcome in media and political circles, and where the prospect of a big payout looms.
3. A priest accused of such things has no fewer rights than you or I do. One of these is the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
4. Anybody else wonder why so many of these seem confined to America? Is it simply that American authorities are better at ferreting such things out? Is it that American priests are somehow more subject to such crimes?
5. Once enough cases come out, hysteria tends to build. Remember the Tylenol poisoning scare? The anthrax scare?
6. Put yourselves in the bishop’s shoes for a moment. If a priest were accused of an unspeakable act, but there was no evidence he committed it, and he vehemently denies doing so, and the bishop takes the precaution of reassigning him, is the bishop wrong? Is there anything the bishop could do which would not be wrong? What if, for example, every accusation immediately resulted in excommunication, followed by an investigation by the authorities? What impact might that have?
7. What proportion of priests do you think commit such crimes? How many per year do you think there are? Are Catholic priests more likely to commit such crimes than Protestant or Orthodox clergy? Are Catholic priests more likely to commit such crimes than schoolteachers?

I don’t think there’s any doubt that at least one priest has committed horrible crimes against children (the one in the documentary). There are undoubtedly more who have. To this extent, the sex abuse scandal uncovered real crimes.

I also don’t think there’s any doubt that a number of priests have been falsely accused, and that various anti-Catholic organizations have triggered a feeding frenzy for their own benefit. Many Catholics have left the faith as a result of this frenzy.

There is a considerable hysteria around this issue which is understandable (who doesn’t fear for their child?) but also irrational. It is akin to the fear over child abduction. I know parents who will not let their children play unsupervised for fear of them being abducted, so overwrought are they by the well-publicized and extremely rare accounts of child abduction. They apparently don’t realize the overwhelming majority of such abductions are a result of the noncustodial parent in a divorce taking their child. If they did, they might focus on preventing divorce as a palliative rather than never letting kids out of eyeshot.

You cannot live your life in constant fear. You cannot drive evil out of the world. You cannot protect yourselves everywhere and always from it. You cannot wall yourself off from evildoers.

We can only punish those who commit such evil acts, and succor those who suffer as a result of such acts. Presuming every priest is a child molestor, as some of us seem wont to do, is an act of evil in itself.

 

[rwoehmke]

One of the great strengths of the Catholic Church is also it greatest weaknesses when it comes to lawsuits. The Church is designed for lawsuits for huge sums of money. That in addition to “hate” for the Catholic Church makes for bad times. For some it is more than hate for the Church. It is literally hate for God or the concept of God.

When a small non-denom is being sued because its pastor hustled some young boys, it isn’t news. The Church is structured such that it has only slight linkage if any to some organization with deep pockets. How much can you sue an individual pastor of a church with maybe 300 members for? It isn’t worth most lawyers or most reporter’s time. Now when you’re a law firm that nails the Archdiocese of Los Angeles for more than half a billion dollars, we are talking bucks and and big news. Very worthwhile.

 

[Atemi]

I opened my paper today in CT and again saw another article on page 2 about the sex abuse scandal. This one was in Rhode Island and they went on about the trials and having handwritten notes from the bishop saying “for confidential reasons, Father so and so has to be transferred at once and not reassigned to his area”.

And this is the greatest scandal of all, IMO.

So many want to focus on individual priests either to magnify their crimes or water them down by merely saying they are sinners and there are sinners everywhere.

No.

The true scandal resides in the Bishopric in too many cases. It has been embedded in the top and has filtered down from there. The greatest scandal here is not the crimes of some priests who molested small children, but numbers of leaders in the highest echelon of a Christian church hiding and empowering such actions.

The more everyone opens their eyes to this reality, the better off we all will be.

How do you handle these questions?

The ways we should not handle such questions are:

1. “Protestants have molested kids too”
2. “Sinners are everywhere”
3. “Everyone else is doing it”
4. “Those who criticise the RCC’s handling of this is an anti-Catholic bigot”

Unfortunately, these responses seem to be the most popular.

…

 

[Teflon93]

And this is the greatest scandal of all, IMO.

So many want to focus on individual priests either to magnify their crimes or water them down by merely saying they are sinners and there are sinners everywhere.

No.

The true scandal resides in the Bishopric in too many cases. It has been embedded in the top and has filtered down from there. The greatest scandal here is not the crimes of some priests who molested small children, but numbers of leaders in the highest echelon of a Christian church hiding and empowering such actions.

The more everyone opens their eyes to this reality, the better off we all will be.

The ways we should not handle such questions are:

1. “Protestants have molested kids too”
2. “Sinners are everywhere”
3. “Everyone else is doing it”
4. “Those who criticise the RCC’s handling of this is an anti-Catholic bigot”

Unfortunately, these responses seem to be the most popular.

…

And so when can we expect you to weigh in on the ongoing sexual abuse scandals in fundamentalism, Atemi?

Here’s a good place to start:

freetennessee.squarespace.com/display/ShowJournal?moduleId=886370&categoryId=82399

And a list of others:

reformation.com/

Please feel free to help your own faith community solve this vexing problem and let us know how you did it.

Please provide real evidence this time for assertion 3. I believe you’ve quite simply made it up.

 

[dmelosi]

I would be interested in hearing more about your source on the accusations on the NUMBERS you call of it of the higher echelon. By numbers you seem to indicate quite a few…
Do you mean high percentage?
Do you have a specific number?
What source do you use for that?

Catholics here sure do defend the faith, but I don’t know one that does not also think the molestation and the cover up is a travesty.

But, please clarify what you mean by NUMBERS.

And this is the greatest scandal of all, IMO.

So many want to focus on individual priests either to magnify their crimes or water them down by merely saying they are sinners and there are sinners everywhere.

No.

The true scandal resides in the Bishopric in too many cases. It has been embedded in the top and has filtered down from there. The greatest scandal here is not the crimes of some priests who molested small children, but numbers of leaders in the highest echelon of a Christian church hiding and empowering such actions.

The more everyone opens their eyes to this reality, the better off we all will be.

The ways we should not handle such questions are:

1. “Protestants have molested kids too”
2. “Sinners are everywhere”
3. “Everyone else is doing it”
4. “Those who criticise the RCC’s handling of this is an anti-Catholic bigot”

Unfortunately, these responses seem to be the most popular.

…

 

[Atemi]

And so when can we expect you to weigh in on the ongoing sexual abuse scandals in fundamentalism, Atemi?

Ahhh.

Your preferred response is number 1:

“Protestants have molested kids too”

Like I said…

…

 

[homewardbound]

I choose that response too. But thats because I am one of those kids who were molested in a Protestant church. Its hidden much better in them because they have such a strong social bond with their leaders and the laity or more willing to lie for them. In the Church, it seems the monsters are just sticking together and aiding each other. I have yet to hear anyone say that these monsters and their enablers are not wrong in their actions and should not be punished. Its wrong, it happened, thats it. There’s nothing else to say. All we can do is pay attention and make sure its not happening in our own parishes. I’m glad its out and those who were wronged have a voice and the Church is finally listening. I know I will never get the same.

 

[Jestocost]

The ways we should not handle such questions are:

1. “Protestants have molested kids too”
2. “Sinners are everywhere”
3. “Everyone else is doing it”
4. “Those who criticise the RCC’s handling of this is an anti-Catholic bigot”

Unfortunately, these responses seem to be the most popular.

…

Are 1 or 2 false? I’ve never heard anyone say 3 or 4 unless you’re exaggerating in which case are the actual arguments false? It sounds like you’re saying that there is something inherently evil about the Church that is the root cause of this. If so, I’ll choose 4.