Sex crimes and the Vatican

[Scoobyshme]

I’m done I am out of this Church it is corrupt to the core, this is horrible. I have my son in Catholic school, my life revolves around daily Mass, Sunday Mass, this Church was my life.

And yet, even the first 12 Apostles that Jesus chose were corrupt and sinful. Judas Iscariot betrayed Him. Peter, the one He chose to lead His Church on earth, denied Him three times. The rest, except for St. John, deserted Him during His passion like cowards. Yet, Jesus knew they would do this, and He chose them anyway. The Church is not a museum of Saints. It is a hospital for sinners, and this includes the clergy. We are all affected by the affects of Original sin, namely, darkness of intellect and weakness of will. Don’t let Satan tell you what to do. The Church is still the Mystical Body of Christ. Jesus promised to remain WITH His Church till the end of the world, and to send the Holy Spirit to lead it into all truth. The Church still has the deposit of Divinely Revealed Truth. Only the Catholic Church has 100% of this Divinely Revealed Truth. You’re either part of the problem, or you’re part of the solution. If you leave, you’re part of the problem. If you stay, pray for priests and bishops. It does matter.

 

[happymommy]

A friend of ours is a youth pastor at a Presbyterian church. He was at a meeting a few weeks ago and one of the speakers was from a youth camp a few hours away. He said that over the last 20 years they had fired 3 camp helpers for sexually abusing children. It makes you wonder how many more there were/are that haven’t been caught yet. It was never in the news. I had never heard of it. Many people we know send there kids there for during the summer. They had no idea that there has ever been a problem.
My sisters Methodist minister was caught looking at porn at his church office, which is inside the church. They removed his computer from the church in an attempt to help him. He was caught at the local library looking at it again and fired.
The music minister at my sister-in-laws church was fired when the church learned he was having an affair with another man. He was married with small children.
The youth minister at a small non denominational church in town was fired after having an affair with one of the teenage girls. The girls family did not press charges, but did leave the church due to shame. The man divorced his wife and left town.
There are problems in every church, but they are not on the news like they are with the Catholic Church, and I’d like to know why.

 

[ritthichai]

There are problems in every church, but they are not on the news like they are with the Catholic Church, and I’d like to know why.

The issue is not that this kind of problem doesn’t happen in other churches but that the Catholic Church at the highest levels seems to have done everything it could to “sweep it under the carpet” in order to protect its own and prevent paedophile priests from being dealt with by the authorities - too often at the expense of their victims. The URL which proves this was given earlier:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/h…en_english.pdf

 

[happymommy]

The issue is not that this kind of problem doesn’t happen in other churches but that the Catholic Church at the highest levels seems to have done everything it could to “sweep it under the carpet” in order to protect its own and prevent paedophile priests from being dealt with by the authorities - too often at the expense of their victims. The URL which proves this was given earlier:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/h…en_english.pdf

But as I stated, the things that happened at that camp were swept under the rug as well. None of knew about it and many sent their children there.

Why is that you don’t hear of these things in other churches? Is it that they don’t happen? well, no they do. Or is it that it is made out to be worse in the Catholic Church?

The URL you gave me was not able to be found. Sorry.

 

[ritthichai]

But as I stated, the things that happened at that camp were swept under the rug as well. None of knew about it and many sent their children there.

Why is that you don’t hear of these things in other churches? Is it that they don’t happen? well, no they do. Or is it that it is made out to be worse in the Catholic Church?

The URL you gave me was not able to be found. Sorry.

Sorry about the URL. I seem unable to enter it in full any more but it is given in full in an earlier post to this stream.

I think for the Presbyterian camp to be the same, it would require the highest ruling body in the Presbyterian Church to be complicit in the cover-up. It wasn’t, so the Presbyterian Church has not attempted to cover up its officers. Hope this helps.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Happymommy, there is clearly a double standard used when it comes to the Catholic Church. The national and international media are violently anti-Catholic. They will ignore the 99% of abuse that goes on in the schools and other denominations in favor of attacking the Catholic Church and even lying about the extent of the problem in order to make the Church look as bad as possible. The Church has always had sinners, beginning with the Apostles. I doubt that will ever change. But it has also had Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and I doubt that will ever change either.

 

[rien]

I’m not talking about a sensational report, I’m talking about the document in question, read it for yourself, it’s very disturbing.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/28_09_06_Crimen_english.pdf

I’m done I am out of this Church it is corrupt to the core, this is horrible. I have my son in Catholic school, my life revolves around daily Mass, Sunday Mass, this Church was my life.

Many are or have left the church over this.

In the US many bishops had scandals in their dioceses - how many resigned? Why did not Rome force them to? If it has been a corporation the CEO would be out in a NY minute. Guess the bishops are held to lesser standards.

One comes to the realization that many in the church and high up really don’t believe. If they have doubts it makes one start to read, read history and re-evaluate one’s belief system.

 

[rien]

33% of all homosexual men are attracted to adolescent boys. The problem with the priesthood is it is full of homosexual men. Read the book ‘Goodbye Good Men’. It is an eye opener. The priesthood has for decades allowed even condoned homosexual behavior by the homosexual sub-culture that ha sinfiltrated the Church. IMO the situation is beyond repair in America. America is now considered missionary territory by Indian and African priests.

I think allowing married clergy will allow heterosexual men to flock to the priesthood and drive out the homosexual sub culture that exists in the priesthood. I think it’s the only way to drive out the homosexual influence that has destroyed the Church in the past 40 years.

Either way though this is just conjecture, I think Christ set up a Church but I don’t believe it to be a physical man made institution any longer.

I’ll keep reading the Bible and praying and see where it leads me, but I can’t condone a Church that instructs its clergy to act according to that document any longer. I certainly can’t in good conscience contribute money to them.

I wish you well on your jorney.

But do not limit yourself to Trinitarian Christianity. That doctrine is clealy not in Scripture. You have to do twists and turns to get there. Yet evangelicals, Luther aqnd calvin (out of heritage more than anything else I’d say) and Catholics still hold it.

Why? It was forced “de fide” on the early church. The Eastern bishops at the time kept going into “hersey” on issues around the nature of Jesus and the Trinity.

They kept being forced into a certain belief pattern imposed by Rome. But a lot of the Western dogmas were never really embraced in the East. Why all the “heresies” - Rome was the victor in these battles so they have been able to historically define these movements as hersey. He who gets to write history you know. This is why when Islam came to North Africa so many easily converted. They simply did not have a deep belief in Trinitarian Chritinaity as defined by the Western church. A mile wide but an inch deep so to speak.

Look at the rapidly growing Oneness Pentecostal movement. These ain’t Mormons or Christian Scientists with another sacred book in addition to the Bible. They are Bible believing fundamentalist Christians who are seeing the Trinity as a false doctrine and an imposition by an institutional church.

This growing “problem” is going to split Pentecostalism, the fastest growing portion of Christianity, in this century.

It is quite possible, given current growth patterns of Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals, that most Christians will be non-Trinitarian by the end of this century.

 

[rien]

The issue is not that this kind of problem doesn’t happen in other churches but that the Catholic Church at the highest levels seems to have done everything it could to “sweep it under the carpet” in order to protect its own and prevent paedophile priests from being dealt with by the authorities - too often at the expense of their victims. The URL which proves this was given earlier:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/h…en_english.pdf

BTW, this if anything proves the discipline of the celibate male priesthood is no longer, if it really ever was, a gift to the church but rather a albatross for the church.

 

[jfhh]

The problem with celibacy is that it is presumptuous and boxes God in. It says that no married man is called to the priesthood except those who were previously Protestant priests. It is just astounding that the church would allow 14 year old girls and 16 year old boys marry under canon law, yet would not be open to God’s calling a married man to the priesthood.

 

[whatevergirl]

BTW, this if anything proves the discipline of the celibate male priesthood is no longer, if it really ever was, a gift to the church but rather a albatross for the church.

I recall the percentage being very small, compared to the number of priests worldwide…why would such a small percentage prove that celibacy is an albatross for the Church? If there were staggering numbers being reported, but obviously, many MANY priests did not commit such crimes, and take their celibacy vows seriously, and are not mentally disturbed whatsoever. Molesting and sexually abusing kids, really has more to do with a person’s mental state, than not being permitted to have sexual partners.

If you or I were to take a vow of celibacy starting right now…forever…would we be tempted to molest kids? No. Think about it. The priests who did these horrible things, did so out of a deeprooted mental problem, not because they were living celibate lives.

Don’t get me wrong–I was outraged by what happened. I was deeply sad on a number of levels–for the children involved, for the stain it put over the entire priesthood, and the suspicious looks many priests get to this day. For the way some in the Church handled things. For the ridiculing that the Church still suffers over this. The whole thing is horribly sad.

But, comments like you post here are degrading to the outstanding men out there who serve as wonderful shepherds to their flocks, and who do view their celibacy as a gift. You probably didn’t mean it that way, but it comes across very broad brushed about The Church’s stance on celibacy.

 

[rien]

The problem with celibacy is that it is presumptuous and boxes God in. It says that no married man is called to the priesthood except those who were previously Protestant priests. It is just astounding that the church would allow 14 year old girls and 16 year old boys marry under canon law, yet would not be open to God’s calling a married man to the priesthood.

To return to original church for the first many centuries priests and bishops were married.

The EO have been more true to the historical church on this with their priesthood. Not so their bishopric as they require bishops to be celibate. Not priests, but any priest elevated to the bishopric must be celibate. A much more Biblical and historic witness.