Sex crimes and the Vatican

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Here’s how I feel. This movie of the BBC’s is definately a virolently anti-catholic movie who’s simply trying to slander a reverred religious leader. Sure there are corrupt people in the Vatican too, but that doesn’t mean Benedict XVI covered up. I think they’re trying to blame Pope Benedict XVI, or at least trying to show that he had something to do with covering it up.
 
Saint_Michael said:
Did you read the actual document? How can anyone who actually read that come away feeling fine about the Church? I would quote parts here but the PDF is actually an image that isn’t OCR’d so can’t cut from it, but I suggest you actually read the document.
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I did. And if you read the context and not just the boxed part, it is not the nuclear bomb under the Church everyone thinks it is.
 
I agree and you have to consider it in context- this sort of abuse was not understood the way it is today!!
 
Scottgun said:
I did. And if you read the context and not just the boxed part, it is not the nuclear bomb under the Church everyone thinks it is.
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I read the entire PDF cover to cover not just the “boxed parts”. I have no clue how anyone could possibly defend that document it’s beyond disturbing that this was the “official” way to handle sex crimes commited by clergy?
 
Saint_Michael said:
I read the entire PDF cover to cover not just the “boxed parts”. I have no clue how anyone could possibly defend that document it’s beyond disturbing that this was the “official” way to handle sex crimes commited by clergy?
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Ok, let’s grant for a moment that it is awful as you say. Now what?

Scott
 
Saint_Michael, come on! Where’s your faith? You should know better than to trust the BBC. Before you make your judgement on the document, try finding out what the church has to say about it. According to Archbisop Vincent Nichols, the document was not concerned with child abuse at all. It was concerned with the misuse of the confessional instead.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5397762.stm

"The BBC Panorama programme, ‘Sex Crimes and the Vatican’, makes clear the suffering of those abused in their childhood.

"But as a public service broadcaster, the BBC should be ashamed of the standard of the journalism used to create this unwarranted attack on Pope Benedict XVI.

"Viewers will recognise only too well the sensational tactics and misleading editing of the programme, which uses old footage and undated interviews.

"They will know that aspects of the programme amount to a deeply prejudiced attack on a revered world religious leader. It will further undermine public confidence in Panorama.

"There are two strands to the Panorama programme ‘Sex Crimes and the Vatican’. The first is a graphic and explicit account of the evil of child abuse and the personal damage it causes to its victims. This is horrific and deeply distressing.

"Those abused as children have been grievously offended. This is especially so when the abuser is a priest. The film is a reminder to everyone of the need to work ceaselessly in the protection of children and in response to the needs of victims.

"The Catholic Church in England and Wales is doing so, with transparency and care, and, in every case, cooperating fully and immediately with public authorities.

"The second strand of the programme is an attack on the Vatican and specifically on Pope Benedict XVI. This aspect of the programme is false and entirely misleading.

"It is false because it misrepresents two Vatican documents and uses them quite misleadingly in order to connect the horrors of child abuse to the person of the Pope.

"The first document, issued in 1962, is not directly concerned with child abuse at all, but with the misuse of the confessional. This has always been a most serious crime in Church law.

"The programme confuses the misuse of the confessional and the immoral attempts by a priest to silence his victim. The second document, issued in 2001, clarified the law of the Church, ensuring that the Vatican is informed of every case of child abuse and that each case is dealt with properly.

"This document does not hinder the investigation by civil authorities of allegations of child abuse, nor is it a method of cover-up, as the programme persistently claims. In fact it is a measure of the seriousness with which the Vatican views these offences.

"Since 2001, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, then Head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, took many steps to apply the law of the Church to allegations and offences of child abuse with absolute thoroughness and scruple.

“This statement is endorsed by the Bishops of England and Wales. Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, as President of the Bishops’ Conference, is writing to the Director General of the BBC, Mark Thompson, to protest about this programme. Cardinal Murphy-O’Connor’s letter will be made public later this week.”
 
Scottgun said:
Ok, let’s grant that it is awful as you say. Now what?

Scott
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I leave the Church I love, what else can I do? My wife is Lutheran, I’ll guess I’ll go there. No Church that is lead by the Holy Spirit would come up with a policy like that to handle child molestations and sexual abuse by clergy. The PDF is intrinsically evil, deceptive and manipulative to keep the matter quiet, even under swearing an oath and threat of excommunication. It lists ways to protect the offender and offers no ways to protect the abused. It’s sickening to be honest.

And after all these years of defending the Church. I went ranting about how these were isolated incidents, there is no big cover up. Well reading the Church policy it appears the aim of the Church in regards to sex crimes and clergy is to immediately cover it up and swear secrecy. How foolish I feel to be swindled.

Where does one go when they’ve commited themselves to a Church (albeit lossing faith already) that turns out to be every bit as bad as people are saying? I don’t know, lost soul I guess.

I wish I was not raised in this Church, it holds so much over me that even reading this terrible policy of the Church it would be very hard for me to leave. Think if this was the policy of the middle school you send your children to? Should God’s Church not beheld to an equal or higher standard than them?
 
Well said Arch Bishop Nichols!!! Blimey!! I’m pretty mad right now about all this, I’m going to write a strong letter myself to the BBC!!!
 
It’s difficult to discuss something which is the soft underbelly of the Church.

Clerics have gotten into all sorts of trouble over the years, real or political, and it’s unusual to expect that some game plan has emerged. What’s surprising is that the game plan is so legalistic and meant to limit the liability to the church.

Aside from openness, I think the priests, brothers, sisters, and lay people working for the church need to know that they will hang out to dry more on their own, than they have before.

Any sort of abuse of unsuspecting and vulnerable lay people should result in automatic excommunication, if it doesn’t already.
 
Saint_Michael said:
I leave the Church I love, what else can I do? My wife is Lutheran, I’ll guess I’ll go there. No Church that is lead by the Holy Spirit would come up with a policy like that to handle child molestations and sexual abuse by clergy. The PDF is intrinsically evil, deceptive and manipulative to keep the matter quiet, even under swearing an oath and threat of excommunication. It lists ways to protect the offender and offers no ways to protect the abused. It’s sickening to be honest.

And after all these years of defending the Church. I went ranting about how these were isolated incidents, there is no big cover up. Well reading the Church policy it appears the aim of the Church in regards to sex crimes and clergy is to immediately cover it up and swear secrecy. How foolish I feel to be swindled.

Where does one go when they’ve commited themselves to a Church (albeit lossing faith already) that turns out to be every bit as bad as people are saying? I don’t know, lost soul I guess.

I wish I was not raised in this Church, it holds so much over me that even reading this terrible policy of the Church it would be very hard for me to leave. Think if this was the policy of the middle school you send your children to? Should God’s Church not beheld to an equal or higher standard than them?
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As DavidGonzolez points out in his Archibishop quote, this document pertains to the context of confession and not as a general sex-abuse policy. I am unaware of any sex-abuse case ballyhooed by the media that can be linked to the instructions in this document. It sounds like you were mostly out of the door to begin with–I’ll pray that you remain faithful, and caution you that this is a lousy pretext for leaving.
 
Saint_Michael, have you read the response of Archbisop Vincent Nichols yet?
 
Saint_Michael said:
I leave the Church I love, what else can I do? My wife is Lutheran, I’ll guess I’ll go there. No Church that is lead by the Holy Spirit would come up with a policy like that to handle child molestations and sexual abuse by clergy.
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Sounds like you have confused your love of the church leaders with a love of the Church. You MUST see the difference.

If all it takes is a lousy leader and sinful actions to alienate you, then you will be church-shopping forever.

“…Lord… where do we go… You have the words of eternal Life…”

By the way…
there is NO OTHER church that is led by the Holy Spirit.

and that is Jesus’ guarantee that He would lead the Church into all Truth
The Guarantee does not state that all in the Church will follow.

.
 
Scottgun said:
As DavidGonzolez points out in his Archibishop quote, this document pertains to the context of confession and not as a general sex-abuse policy. I am unaware of any sex-abuse case ballyhooed by the media that can be linked to the instructions in this document. It sounds like you were mostly out of the door to begin with–I’ll pray that you remain faithful, and caution you that this is a lousy pretext for leaving.
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Out the door already? I attend Mass weekly, daily Mass at least twice a week, attend Miraculous Medal novena’s. I may struggle with faith, but I was far from “out the door already”.

I READ THE DOCUMENT!!! Please I encourage everyone else to prior to making baseless accusations. I don’t care what someone else says, I read the document word for word, I can read English and the PDF is pretty clear. I don’t buy the Arch Bishop’s defense at all, the PDF is indefensible for anyone with integrity.

You call it a lousy pretext, I call it the only way I can keep my integrity. No Church of Christ would behave in such a fashion.

Answer my question:

What if that was the policy of the middle school you send your children to? Would you remain to send them there? And isn’t Christ’s Church held to a higher standard?
 
DavidGonzalez said:
Saint_Michael, have you read the response of Archbisop Vincent Nichols yet?
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Yes more whitewashing IMO, I read the document in question, and it instructs clergy in my Church to behave in a way I never thought they would be instructed to behave.
 
Saint_Michael said:
Answer my question:

What if that was the policy of the middle school you send your children to? Would you remain to send them there? And isn’t Christ’s Church held to a higher standard?
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Since they don’t have confession at middle school, I’d have no problem. Context, context, context.
 
I can not get the document pulled up. Does anyone know of another link to it, preferable not BBC? I can’t help keep thinking of Dan Rather’s fiasco.

What is the date of the document, at least?
 
pnewton said:
I can not get the document pulled up. Does anyone know of another link to it, preferable not BBC? I can’t help keep thinking of Dan Rather’s fiasco.

What is the date of the document, at least?
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  1. I don’t have another link.
 
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