Sex in the Sanctuary

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dbacks5439:
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Oh, and not to mention what the priest might be thinking the next morning when he’s celebrating Mass knowing what went on at that spot.
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Probably his beautiful wife still sleeping back in in the rectory (White clergy, of course.) 😉
 
Originally Posted by dbacks5439:
I’m sorry, I’ve never heard the term, “white clergy.” What do you mean by that?
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It’s a term applied to Eastern Christian clergy. It basically refers to those priests who are married. Black clergy basically refers to those clergy who are not.
 
Goblin_Taters said:
A question for those who may have a better understanding of canon law. Concerning the sacrament of marriage, is it against canon law for the wedded couple to consummate their marrage on holy ground, or in any Catholic sanctuary in general?

I find it interesting that most of all the other sacraments: Baptism, Confession, Confirmation, Eucharist, and Holy Orders find their completion in the church, but with Holy Matrimony, the marriage is not complete until it is consummated by the man and his wife.

Is the procreative act between man and woman perhaps too sinful for holy grounds? 🤷

Why not have a marriage room attached to the church? I know Eastern priests have been known to actually process to the wedded couples’ home, where the bed is blessed!

Thanks for your answers! 🙂
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BTW, Confession can take place anywhere, not just in a church.

Sex is not sinful within a marriage.

A valid sacrament requires the proper form (vows), matter (the couple), and minister (the couple – not the priest! The priest is present as a witness). These elements are what make the marrige a sacrament and are present at the ceremony, which does take place on holy ground. Christ is present through the sacramental marriage and love of the couple, so the consummation does not have to take place “on holy ground.”

BTW, to have a marriage room in a church smacks of exhibitionism. Can you imagine booking a date and time, and everyone would know exactly what you are doing in there? That would be a near occasion of sin for those using their imaginations.
 
Originally posted by jpjd:
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BTW, Confession can take place anywhere, not just in a church.
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Oh yes, I know this very well. After not going to confession for 7 years, I finally confessed before father in an Anabaptist meeting house.
 
Originally Posted by jpjd:
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A valid sacrament requires the proper form (vows), matter (the couple), and minister (the couple – not the priest! The priest is present as a witness). These elements are what make the marrige a sacrament and are present at the ceremony, which does take place on holy ground. Christ is present through the sacramental marriage and love of the couple, so the consummation does not have to take place “on holy ground.”
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Of course consummation does not have to take place on holy grounds. 🙂 But if a marriage isn’t yet consummated, it’s not really a fully sealed sacramental marriage, is it? It’s the consummation which fully seals the bond.

Here’s a fun little canon:
Canon 1061.1 A valid marriage between baptised persons is said to be merely ratified, if it is not consummated; ratified and consummated, if the spouses have in a human manner engaged together in a conjugal act in itself apt for the generation of offspring. To this act marriage is by its nature ordered and by it the spouses become one flesh.
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Originally Posted by jpjd:
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BTW, to have a marriage room in a church smacks of exhibitionism. Can you imagine booking a date and time, and everyone would know exactly what you are doing in there? That would be a near occasion of sin for those using their imaginations.
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It’s not like the room would be placed on the ambo in the middle of the church. 😃

Probably more on one side, set off like a vestry. Maybe a stained glass window of the Wedding at Cana above the doorway, but otherwise soundproof, like a recording room.
 
The whole idea of ‘a sacrament has to take place on holy ground’ is wrong to start with.

Emergency baptisms can be and have been done anywhere, confessions too often take place outside the church precincts, and anointing of the sick is rarely done inside a church.
 
Originally Posted by LilyM:
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The whole idea of ‘a sacrament has to take place on holy ground’ is wrong to start with.
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Emergency baptisms can be and have been done anywhere, confessions too often take place outside the church precincts, and anointing of the sick is rarely done inside a church.
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Exceptions don’t make the rule. Catholic marriages are supposed to take place in a certain (Catholic) parish church. 🙂
Can. 1118 §1 A marriage between catholics, or between a catholic party and a baptised non-catholic, is to be celebrated in the parish church. By permission of the local Ordinary or of the parish priest, it may be celebrated in another church or oratory.
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§2 The local Ordinary can allow a marriage to be celebrated in another suitable place.
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If a marriage is merely ratified before consummation, and only becomes ratified and consummated when the couple engages in the procreative act that makes one flesh (as canon law tells us), are we led to believe that couples today are leaving Catholic churches prematurely, before the celebration is completed? 🤷

And if a marriage between two Catholics is not fully celebrated in the parish church, is it upon the couple to ask the bishop or priest for the more suitable place to complete the celebration?
 
Goblin,

I think you are seriously misunderstanding the sacrament of marriage, or else you are getting your jollies with this thread.

The celebration IS COMPLETED with ceremony because the elements of the sacrament have taken place with the ceremony. The consummation is something that shows the couple intends to honor the 3 goods of marriage, which are indissolubility, fidelity, and fruitfulness. It is something that is extremely private between the couple, NOT because it is sinful, but because it is intensely intimate. It is completely inappropriate to have consumation take place anywhere else but in a private location at a private time.
 
OH MY GOSH!!! 😊 As if we weren’t nervous enough to begin with, not having ever been together that way until our wedding night, I would have been a total nervous WRECK!!! :eek:

I think the notion is just silly. Sex is a private matter between a husband and wife. There is no need for anyone else to know when it’s happening. If the wedding is never consummated, and one of the couple has an issue with that, let them take it to the Tribunal and have the marriage declared null. Otherwise, there is no reason for anyone to know, it’s no one’s business.

~Liza
 
Goblin_Taters said:
A question for those who may have a better understanding of canon law. Concerning the sacrament of marriage, is it against canon law for the wedded couple to consummate their marrage on holy ground, or in any Catholic sanctuary in general?

I find it interesting that most of all the other sacraments: Baptism, Confession, Confirmation, Eucharist, and Holy Orders find their completion in the church, but with Holy Matrimony, the marriage is not complete until it is consummated by the man and his wife.

Is the procreative act between man and woman perhaps too sinful for holy grounds? 🤷

Why not have a marriage room attached to the church? I know Eastern priests have been known to actually process to the wedded couples’ home, where the bed is blessed!

Thanks for your answers! 🙂
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Would this mean couples would had to go to this room each time they wanted to renew the sacrament? And how many additional rooms and staff (for scheduling) would this require? What about spontaneity, nooners, that sort of thing?

Silliness:whacky:
 
Originally Posted bySpirithound:
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Consummation is not necessary for a valid marriage, otherwise Mary and Joseph could not have been truly married.
Check out Summa Theologica III.29.2
newadvent.org/summa/4029.htm
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It was a “Josephite Marriage” kind of thing, a “spiritual marriage.” 😃

The Pope can dissolve a Josephite Marriage, and any marriage not yet consummated for that fact; he cannot, however, dissolve a consummated sacramental marriage.

Question is: if Joseph were alive after the ressurrection (which he wasn’t, but let’s just take it into consideration 😉 ), would it have been in the power of St. Peter to dissolve the spiritual marriage between Mary and Joseph? 🤷
 
Originally Posted by Bruised Reed:
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Would this mean couples would had to go to this room each time they wanted to renew the sacrament? And how many additional rooms and staff (for scheduling) would this require? What about spontaneity, nooners, that sort of thing?
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Silliness
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Hey, all you need to do is ask the couples to give a donation each time they come, and before you know it, the monetary woes of the church are gone!

No scheduling staff needed. You’d resserve times on the parish website (showing all the spots taken and open), and you’d bring your parish swipe card to get into whichever room.

Plus, if churches do this, people outside the Church will truly see that the Church is not against sex, but indeed for it, when it is conducted within the legitimate bounds of sacramental marriage. It might even bring in converts!

:cool:
 
The marriage is presumed valid by all accounts at the time of the wedding blessing at the mass. As to when the consummation occurs is nobody’s business but the newly married couple.

We don’t ask for proof you’ve told all your sins at reconciliation.

We don’t ask for proof of your state of grace at communion.
 
I find this thread to be disgusting, sinful and borderline voyeuristic. If anyone here seriously thinks that the consummation of the marital act should take place ANYWHERE in the Church they should seek SERIOUS Spiritual Counselling.
 
I didn’t read through the entire thread to see if anyone mentioned this:

When marrying, the man and woman administer the Sacrament of Marriage to one another, so it would be reasonable to assume that they “finalize” the Sacrament in their own sanctuary; that is, the home they now share.

Remember, St Paul tells us that husband and wife should use Jesus and His Bride, the Church, as a model!
 
The concept fails because the Church views a couple married even if something catastrophic happens prior to consumation later that hour, day, week, whenever.

Couples have died on their way to honeymoons; accidents have happened rendering one or the other spouse incapable for an extended period.

Or some couples abstain due to their cycles in accordance with NFP.

All of these couples are wholly and validaly married, no?
 
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