Sexless Marriage?

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Talk to your pastor.

This is a ridiculous place to look for complicated advice on a complicated marital situation, especially when there may be issues with validity, and especially when your MO is to ask questions on the forum with only a tiny amount of background information and then dribble out more information with little or no context. Garbage in, garbage out–or inadequate information in, inadequate answers out.

Talk to your pastor and talk to a counselor.
Talk to your pastor IF he knows Canon Law - he does not need to have a degree on the subject, but he does need to be sufficiently knowledgeable. A lot of priest are not, and end up giving bad advice that is ruinous. Yes, I’ve seen that, and by the time the case reaches the ecclesiastical court, much damage could have been avoided IF the pastor had known Canon Law and had given good advice to the person concerned. Not all priests like the subject, not all of them give Canon Law the importance it should have when dealing with these complicated marital problems.

I don’t usually look at people’s past posts in order to have a “full” picture. Marriage problems and their canonical implications are way too complex to be fully addressed at an Internet forum. But what we can do here is to warn people about the theoretical possibilities, so that they may know there are possibilities that should be explored alongside with someone with proper formation (priest, counselor, canon lawyer etc).

I only stated a simple theoretical fact that does not need context. Imposing abstinence to a spouse is objectively a grave sin (if the person denying sex does not have grave psychological problems that would lessen his culpability, which is often the case). It exposes people to danger of falling in other sexual sins (adultery, pornography use, masturbation etc). These are usually the consequences of being denied sex on a constant basis.

This having been said, I was very clear that this situation “per se” only allows separation, not remarriage. But I also said that if grave psychological problems are involved (on either side, I do not know the OP’s story or his wife’s story), the OP should contemplate investigating the declaration of nullity (which does permit someone to get married). To be more precise right now, not only psychological problems, but any other issues that may have caused nullity (some are as simple as a lack of due form, i. e., the cleric that assisted as a witness did not get proper delegation from the pastor of the place, or somenone who did not get the proper dispensation to get married).

Yes, spiritual advice by someone’s pastor is deeply needed in times of trouble. Psychological healthcare may be needed as well. But if things are starting to fall apart, a Catholic should really consider looking into the declaration of nullity. Sometimes people get a surprise: they think the case for nullity is in the other person, and it turns out that they themselves are the cause of it. Since the OP is Catholic, and not Orthodox, the pastor won’t be able to handle this alone (if the OP was Orthodox, it would be a whole different matter, since the bishop is able to dissolve somenone’s marriage for a grave reason on the advice of the pastor).

So, I don’t need to know the full story in order to say that, alongside with any help he may get, he should talk to: 1) a priest who knows Canon Law very well (if the pastor is not this person, he should visit the pastor only for spiritual advice, not legal); 2) or a Canon Law specialist. And this is so regardless of the fact that either he or his wife has psychological problems. I don’t know and I don’t need to assess psychological information here. The specialist is the one to make this assessment.

My answer to the OP: go see someone versed in Canon Law and discuss with this person your life story. He/She should be able to help with legal matters. As to spiritual life, talk to your pastor. If you have psychological problems (I honestly don’t know), go see a therapist.

But since the original question has dealt with legal matters (getting a divorce), the answer necessarily has to be dealt with using legal advice as well (here, I gave theoretical advice only, since I know next to nothing about the OP’s life). As to civil divorce, it is permitted by the Church if the person is aware that it only deals with civil effects (ailmony, custody of children, inheritance issues etc) and the situation is objectively serious. Civil divorce does not change someone’s status as married.
 
My answer to the OP: go see someone versed in Canon Law and discuss with this person your life story. He/She should be able to help with legal matters. As to spiritual life, talk to your pastor. If you have psychological problems (I honestly don’t know), go see a therapist.
Sorry I cut your post down to save space but just wanted you to know I was asking this question to you.

It’s been mentioned that the OP is NOT validly married. Therefore from a canon law perspective isn’t it sinful for them to engage in sexual relations anyway?

I find it interesting how the OP is putting all this on his wife. She is not Catholic and they are apparently not validly married. It’s confusing, he is trying to show his wife the Catholic way about how sinful it is to not engage sexual relations at all (for no reason), yet it’s actually a sin for him to engage anyway 🤷
 
Sorry I cut your post down to save space but just wanted you to know I was asking this question to you.

It’s been mentioned that the OP is NOT validly married. Therefore from a canon law perspective isn’t it sinful for them to engage in sexual relations anyway?

I find it interesting how the OP is putting all this on his wife. She is not Catholic and they are apparently not validly married. It’s confusing, he is trying to show his wife the Catholic way about how sinful it is to not engage sexual relations at all (for no reason), yet it’s actually a sin for him to engage anyway 🤷
Yes, you are absolutely right. If someone is almost sure that he/she is in an invalid marriage, he/she must abstain from sex and go to the ecclesiastical court as soon as possible to have the nullity declared in the external forum. If you have SERIOUS doubts about he validity of your matrimony, you should go see a Canon Lawyer and solve this doubt at once. Let us have a look at Dr. Germain Grisez on the matter, a respected contemporary moral theologian (who has experienced separation himself, after he became a widower and entered into a second marriage that ended up in separation - yes, these things happen to specialists too):
“Still, even if a doubt arises, a Catholic who, so far as he or she knows, entered into marriage in accord with the Church’s law should presume that the marriage is valid and should continue to act accordingly until the opposite is proved. However, Catholics in putative marriages who are morally certain that they are not married have no marital rights, and so may not engage in sexual intercourse with their putative spouses; nor should they consider themselves free to marry unless and until the Church so determines.” (GRISEZ, Germain. The Way of the Lord Jesus. Vol. 2 - Living a Christian Life. Chapter 9, number 3, letter “a” - Available at: twotlj.org/G-2-9-H.html)

I don’t know if the OP’s marriage is invalid. He has not mentioned it over here, you say that other people have mentioned it. Again, I don’t have enough data (and I’m not willing to look at past posts by the OP) to make this appraisal of his personal story. The fact that he is not married to a Catholic does not make his marriage invalid. Of course, if she is Protestant, and they got married in a civil ceremony or a Protestant one without proper dispensation, his marriage is invalid, but I do not know if this is the case. If this is the case, his marriage is invalid, and he should get a civil separation or civil divorce (for the purpose of civil effects), and then go straight to the ecclesiastical court (I’m assuming that convalidation of marriage is not an option, since he is already contemplating divorce).
 
MainBrain, if your marriage is invalid as 1ke says it is, then yes, you can get an annulment and thus divorce and remarry.
 
MainBrain, if your marriage is invalid as 1ke says it is, then yes, you can get an annulment and thus divorce and remarry.
Well, the civil divorce would have to happen first (at least if the OP is in the US). However…
I sure can’t go single for the rest of my life. I couldn’t get remarried?
I read this and think, if this is what my husband said to me, I’d feel so ridiculously objectified I would probably not be able to in good conscience have sex with him, valid marriage or no.

I don’t want to excuse his wife, but something about the way the OP discusses this issue makes my stomach turn. It may be a bit of a chicken and egg situation (what came first? The constant refusal or the seeming objectification, or are they just continuously feeding off each other?) but yikes. It strikes me as an intensely unloving thing to say. How does this attitude help? :confused:

There is a LOT that needs addressing in counseling here, and not only on the part of the (civil) wife. If she won’t go to counseling, OP, you go alone.
 
What is interesting is that the OP is using Biblical texts to convince his wife that she is sinning by denying him sex, but he doesn’t seem to be concerned about the fact that having sex in an invalid marriage is a sin…

Something doesn’t add up here.
 
What is interesting is that the OP is using Biblical texts to convince his wife that she is sinning by denying him sex, but he doesn’t seem to be concerned about the fact that having sex in an invalid marriage is a sin…

Something doesn’t add up here.
Why is it an invalid marriage? We were both baptized. We were married by two Pastors.
 
Why is it an invalid marriage? We were both baptized. We were married by two Pastors.
Were you Catholic when you got married in a Protestant ceremony? If the answer is yes, you were bound to get married in a Catholic ceremony or ask the bishop for a dispensation from canonical form. If neither of this was done, then your marriage is invalid due to lack of canonical form or lack of dispensation from it (I’m also assuming that you did not marry in danger of death and there was at least one Catholic cleric available in the area).

Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. 144, 1112, §1, 1116, and 1127, §§1-2.

Can. 1127 §1. The prescripts of can. 1108 are to be observed for the form to be used in a mixed marriage.

§2. If grave difficulties hinder the observance of canonical form, the local ordinary of the Catholic party has the right of dispensing from the form in individual cases, after having consulted the ordinary of the place in which the marriage is celebrated and with some public form of celebration for validity. It is for the conference of bishops to establish norms by which the aforementioned dispensation is to be granted in a uniform manner.

Again, if this is your case, you are not in a valid marriage, and you have two options: 1. get a civil divorce or civil separation and then go to the ecclesiastical court for the decree of nullity - it will come very fast if the problem is due to lack of canonical form; 2. if you want to stay with her, you should get your marriage convalidated. If you doubt what I am telling you, pay a visit to your local ecclesiastical tribunal. They have canon lawyers available that will explain to you why you should have gotten married according to canonical form (or with a dispensation from your Ordinary, i.e., the bishop).

These are the legal solutions. However, I admit that there is more to ending a relationship than only legal aspects. It seems easy in the theory, but not that easy in practice, specially if there are children involved. But again, if you are not validly married, you cannot demand sexual activity from someone who is not your wife.

You asked for information, we have provided it to you - now you know. Act accordingly to the information you have. Do not pretend that you didn’t got warned by us. Do not keep yourself in this situation of an invalid marriage if this is your case - either convalidate it, or leave it. If you do not want to leave this relationship or is not willing to convalidate this marriage (assuming it can be convalidated), then what is left for you is to live like brother and sister under the same roof for the sake of the children (I don’t know if you have children, do you?). We cannot choose for you, we may only inform you about the possibilities.

May God assist you in choosing wisely.
 
Actually, telling people the truth, even if it isn’t what they want to hear, is the kindest thing a person can do.
But you can do it in a way that is compassionate and sensitive, or you can do it in a way that is harsh and judgmental, imho.
 
Why is it an invalid marriage? We were both baptized. We were married by two Pastors.
MainBrain, if you are a Catholic who is not married in a Catholic Church, your marriage is not valid in the eyes of the Church and you are able to attain an annulment. This means that you may divorce and remarry without going against Church teaching.
 
But you can do it in a way that is compassionate and sensitive, or you can do it in a way that is harsh and judgmental, imho.
If you take a look at the posting history of the OP on this matter, you will see why some members are responding in the way that they are.
 
If you take a look at the posting history of the OP on this matter, you will see why some members are responding in the way that they are.
Yes.

The OP has a long history of asking short seemingly hypothetical questions which turn out to have a long, complicated real-life backstory behind them that there’s no way that the initial hypothetical question could possibly adequately address.
 
If you take a look at the posting history of the OP on this matter, you will see why some members are responding in the way that they are.
I took a quick look. He has a lot of threads about depression, feeling inadequate because of not having a job, and a sexless/unhappy marriage. I feel sad for him.
 
Yes.

The OP has a long history of asking short seemingly hypothetical questions which turn out to have a long, complicated real-life backstory behind them that there’s no way that the initial hypothetical question could possibly adequately address.
What does this have to do with being unkind to him though? A lot of his threads look like they were very emotionally driven. Like, he was feeling desperate and very upset, and really needed to vent and to talk to someone.
 
What does this have to do with being unkind to him though? A lot of his threads look like they were very emotionally driven. Like, he was feeling desperate and very upset, and really needed to vent and to talk to someone.
Yes, which he ought to do in real life with his pastor and a counselor.

If venting here was going to do him good, it would already have done him good.
 
Yes, which he ought to do in real life with his pastor and a counselor.

If venting here was going to do him good, it would already have done him good.
Sure, he should do that. But I still don’t see anything wrong with wanting to unload here as well.
 
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