sexual abuse by protestant ministers

[Prodigal_Son1]

ProdigalSon1

Yes. it is true that there is no safe haven and that sexual exploitation of children and youth can and has invaded all areas of society, I continue to find that evidence suggests that the Catholic priesthood is more afflicted by this problem that Protestant clergy, and it has little to do with the fact that Protestants have various denominations. 

 I have outlined some of the reasons for this already, including the difficulty of concealing such predators within a typical Protestant church where the clergy are usually regarded as leaders but also employees overseen and evaluated regularly (in most cases) by a lay committee of the congregation. Celibacy is a factor, too, even as the RC Church refuses to admit it. Celibacy can attract a higher percentage of men with disturbed sexuality since they may feel that it will help them cure and/or hide their problem. No one will ask why they're not married. It also fails to provide them with a healthy, God-created channel for sexual expression, which marriage does. 

 I question the whole emphasis of Catholicism re sexuality. It seems to value perpetual virginity over normal lives that include sex. In a  book of saints I have, bios of so many of the women saints begin with the one word, virgin, as though that were a major plus and qualification. Paul said it is better to marry than to burn, which should allow clergy to marry if they choose to. He also said that a bishop must be "the husband of only one wife...keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way." (I Tim. 3:2-4) That seems to have been the position of the early church, beginning with Peter who had a mother-in-law. It also is the position of the Eastern Orthodox Church, whose claim on being heir to the traditions of the earliest Christian Church is strong. 

Again, however, what may be even more distressing than abusive priests seems to have been the collusion of bishops and others in hiding the sexual crimes, and even reassigning predatory priests to other parishes. Protestantism generally has no such hierarchal authority in a position to do that. 

  It is understandable why Catholics would want to show that Protestant ministers have been as guilty as Catholic priests in sexually exploitiing children, but I don't believe the evidence for that exists. 

 Nonethess, the number of priests who have exploited children is a tiny, tiny fraction of priests. My educated guess is that there has been much, much more sexual contact between adult priests over the years. Evidence suggests that homosexuality had been rampant within the priesthood. Just how we should view that is a totally different question as it no longer is breaking the law in modern western society.  

  Let us pray for all Christian clergy that they may be men (and women) of high standards of personal morality.

Care to provide the sources to support your opinion of, ‘Celibacy can attract a higher percentage of men with disturbed sexuality since they may feel that it will help them cure and/or hide their problem’? Without the proper research to validate your opinion, your opinion is based on your own speculation.

Normal lives that include sex? How many ‘normal’ lives experience a virgin birth, conceived by the Holy Spirit?

As for your ‘interpretation’ of scriptures, it appears you left out other verses that do not fit your view.

**Mat 19:12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mothers womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.

1Co 7:8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they so continue, even as I.

1Co 7:32 But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord: how he may please God.
1Co 7:33 But he that is with a wife is solicitous for the things of the world: how he may please his wife. And he is divided.
1Co 7:34 And the unmarried woman and the virgin thinketh on the things of the Lord: that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she that is married thinketh on the things of the world: how she may please her husband.
1Co 7:35 And this I speak for your profit, not to cast a snare upon you, but for that which is decent and which may give you power to attend upon the Lord, without impediment.

2Ti 2:3 Labour as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.
2Ti 2:4 No man, being a soldier to God, entangleth himself with secular businesses: that he may please him to whom he hath engaged himself.

1Ti 5:9 Let a widow be chosen of no less than threescore years of age, who hath been the wife of one husband.
1Ti 5:10 Having testimony for her good works, if she have brought up children, if she have received to harbour, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have ministered to them that suffer tribulation, if she have diligently followed every good work.
1Ti 5:11 But the younger widows avoid. For when they have grown wanton in Christ, they will marry:
1Ti 5:12 Having damnation, because they have made void their first faith. **

 

[rev_kevin]

It don’t matter what denomination has the most child abuse the fact is that one child abused is one too many. We can go back and forth about it but that won’t stop the abuse. Anyone who does this to a child is a monster and it don’t matter who or what religious group they belong to. Finger pointing, saying “see how many the other religious groups have and how bad they are” simply serves not purpose but to insite others. If they abuse a child sexually or anyother way they need to be punished to the full extent of the law, no matter who they are or what possition of authority they hold. There are the good and the bad in every walk of life and religion is no exemption. Some priests are guilty and some protestant ministers are guilty. The numbers don’t matter but to be fair where is the number of Catholics that have sexually abused children? If your going to point then give all the numbers of all religious groups even the Catholics.

 

[jen_fla]

Jen, stop being so defensive; it wasn’t directed at you. It was directed in general at some of the posters who come in there and are disrespectful at times.

surely you can see why i thought it was directed at me based on your first comment, but thank you for clearing that up. you kindness is appreciated.

 

[jen_fla]

It don’t matter what denomination has the most child abuse the fact is that one child abused is one too many. We can go back and forth about it but that won’t stop the abuse. Anyone who does this to a child is a monster and it don’t matter who or what religious group they belong to. Finger pointing, saying “see how many the other religious groups have and how bad they are” simply serves not purpose but to insite others. If they abuse a child sexually or anyother way they need to be punished to the full extent of the law, no matter who they are or what possition of authority they hold. There are the good and the bad in every walk of life and religion is no exemption. Some priests are guilty and some protestant ministers are guilty. The numbers don’t matter but to be fair where is the number of Catholics that have sexually abused children? If your going to point then give all the numbers of all religious groups even the Catholics.

amen to everything you said, but finger pointing was not the purpose of this thread. maybe people will wake up and realize this is rampant everywhere (mostly in the secular world) and we can put better systems in place to prevent the abuse and potential for covering it up. someone had mentioned that in some states there was a 90 day period to come forward with abuse in our public school systems. if that is true, then that is something we should work towards changing.

we know this sick behavior happens everywhere, but if we think this is overwhelmingly a Catholic problem as the media would have us believe, then i think that can be dangerous. either way any system can be broken and the bottom line is are we following Christ or not?

you can find the numbers you seek if you read through all the links provided on this thread.

also speaking of world problems, maybe we feel we don’t know anyone involved with the UN, but this should be brought to light as well. apparently the bbc did run stories about this, but i had never heard anything of it here in the states.

• Nearly 200 United Nations peacekeepers have been disciplined in the past three years for sex offences ranging from rape to assaults on minors, the UN has admitted. Yet none appears to have been prosecuted.

Senior UN officials said on Friday that 319 soldiers, police or civilians serving on missions have been investigated for sexual misconduct over the past three years, and 180 have been dismissed or repatriated.

These numbers do not include allegations levelled at members of the UN’s own staff. According to an internal UN report, these total 91, including 13 alleged to have had sex with minors, 15 who gave jobs in return for sex, 17 who had sex with prostitutes, five who face allegations of rape and one person who is alleged to have committed sexual assault.*

the rest can be found here

does anyone know who monitors the UN?

 

[rev_kevin]

amen to everything you said, but finger pointing was not the purpose of this thread. maybe people will wake up and realize this is rampant everywhere (mostly in the secular world) and we can put better systems in place to prevent the abuse and potential for covering it up. someone had mentioned that in some states there was a 90 day period to come forward with abuse in our public school systems. if that is true, then that is something we should work towards changing.

we know this sick behavior happens everywhere, but if we think this is overwhelmingly a Catholic problem as the media would have us believe, then i think that can be dangerous. either way any system can be broken and the bottom line is are we following Christ or not?

you can find the numbers you seek if you read through all the links provided on this thread.

also speaking of world problems, maybe we feel we don’t know anyone involved with the UN, but this should be brought to light as well. apparently the bbc did run stories about this, but i had never heard anything of it here in the states.

• Nearly 200 United Nations peacekeepers have been disciplined in the past three years for sex offences ranging from rape to assaults on minors, the UN has admitted. Yet none appears to have been prosecuted.

Senior UN officials said on Friday that 319 soldiers, police or civilians serving on missions have been investigated for sexual misconduct over the past three years, and 180 have been dismissed or repatriated.

These numbers do not include allegations levelled at members of the UN’s own staff. According to an internal UN report, these total 91, including 13 alleged to have had sex with minors, 15 who gave jobs in return for sex, 17 who had sex with prostitutes, five who face allegations of rape and one person who is alleged to have committed sexual assault.*

the rest can be found here

does anyone know who monitors the UN?

I agree with you the there something needs to be done about this and that we should work together to try to solve the problem. The figures you gave here are staggering to say the least. To point the finger at the CC only is not fair when this is going on all over the world. I have not seen nor heard of these other alligations of sex abuse. It makes my stomic churn.

 

[jen_fla]

ProdigalSon1

Yes. it is true that there is no safe haven and that sexual exploitation of children and youth can and has invaded all areas of society, I continue to find that evidence suggests that the Catholic priesthood is more afflicted by this problem that Protestant clergy, and it has little to do with the fact that Protestants have various denominations. 

 I have outlined some of the reasons for this already, including the difficulty of concealing such predators within a typical Protestant church where the clergy are usually regarded as leaders but also employees overseen and evaluated regularly (in most cases) by a lay committee of the congregation. Celibacy is a factor, too, even as the RC Church refuses to admit it. Celibacy can attract a higher percentage of men with disturbed sexuality since they may feel that it will help them cure and/or hide their problem. No one will ask why they're not married. It also fails to provide them with a healthy, God-created channel for sexual expression, which marriage does. 

 I question the whole emphasis of Catholicism re sexuality. It seems to value perpetual virginity over normal lives that include sex. In a  book of saints I have, bios of so many of the women saints begin with the one word, virgin, as though that were a major plus and qualification. Paul said it is better to marry than to burn, which should allow clergy to marry if they choose to. He also said that a bishop must be "the husband of only one wife...keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way." (I Tim. 3:2-4) That seems to have been the position of the early church, beginning with Peter who had a mother-in-law. It also is the position of the Eastern Orthodox Church, whose claim on being heir to the traditions of the earliest Christian Church is strong. 

Again, however, what may be even more distressing than abusive priests seems to have been the collusion of bishops and others in hiding the sexual crimes, and even reassigning predatory priests to other parishes. Protestantism generally has no such hierarchal authority in a position to do that. 

  It is understandable why Catholics would want to show that Protestant ministers have been as guilty as Catholic priests in sexually exploitiing children, **but I don't believe the evidence for that exists. **

 Nonethess, the number of priests who have exploited children is a tiny, tiny fraction of priests. My educated guess is that there has been much, much more sexual contact between adult priests over the years. Evidence suggests that homosexuality had been rampant within the priesthood. Just how we should view that is a totally different question as it no longer is breaking the law in modern western society.  

  Let us pray for all Christian clergy that they may be men (and women) of high standards of personal morality.

bold underline portion: i understand you believe that yet i and others have provided several links to reports and studies showing otherwise and you have not.

sexual abuse and covering it up are two different crimes. as to which church or organization is most guilty regarding the latter, i do not know yet, but this thread was to bring attention to the fact that the media has us associating Catholic priest = child molester and the evidence shows that they are the least likely to do so.

and i am with you praying for all Christian clergy (and all people) that they come to Christ and/or stay true to His teachings. we’d have heaven on earth if everyone did.

peace, roy!

 

[jen_fla]

I agree with you the there something needs to be done about this and that we should work together to try to solve the problem. The figures you gave here are staggering to say the least. To point the finger at the CC only is not fair when this is going on all over the world. I have not seen nor heard of these other alligations of sex abuse. It makes my stomic churn.

well will you look at us… we are completely on the same page! :grouphug:

hopefully this painful information i have posted can be put to good use.

peace, rev kevin.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

i think we can all agree that sexual abuse by any human being of any creed is something we must all work towards preventing.

since the news has brainwashed most americans into thinking Catholic priest = child molester i thought some light should be shed on how this problem exists for our protestant friends as well. the second comment i posted shows how the problem is even worse in our secular school systems.

ALL Protestant denominations - 838 Ministers

147 Baptist Ministers

251 “Bible” Church Ministers (fundamentalist/evangelical)

140 Anglican/Episcopalian Ministers

38 Lutheran Ministers

46 Methodist Ministers

19 Presbyterian Ministers

197 various Church Ministers

read cases here

These numbers arent even close to the 4,392 priests identified in the John Jay report alone. If you bring in Ireland, Brazil and other countries, that number rockets. The figures are worse still when you add nuns and religious brothers to the figures.

(I defy anyone to read the testimonies of the victims of the Daughters of Charity and the Christian Brothers and not shed a tear!).

I’m not sure such comprisons are helpful in any way to the Catholic Church.

Im certain ALL churchs have their sexual deviants.

The issue at the heart of the abuse in the Catholic church is the superhuman lengths all those involved went to to cover the abuse up - even if that meant the suicide of the victim!!!

It seemed like a case of by all means necessary to prevent scandal at all costs.

No other church appears to have gone to the same lengths as the Catholic church to do this. And I use ‘‘appears’’ advisedly.

 

[Dokimas]

Here’s the beauty of it all. It does not matter if you change your title (I actually like the one you have) this thread will turn on the Catholic Priests.

Gotta go—I can smell the pop corn poppin.

You have a valid point from experience. On the other threads about priests, many brought up about the protestant problems. Human nature is human nature and we all like to deflect from our sinfulness to others. It makes us fee justified and better. It’s kind of a coverup at the expense of others.

 

[Dokimas]

I do agree that there is no real defense in “They are worse than us.” I do find value in it when we are discussing the media’s coverage of the issue or if that is a reason that the Catholic faith is bad/evil/problematic/etc.

If the Catholic Church contained the highest percentage of offenders, the media coverage is founded and acceptable. If it does not, it reeks of bias.

If the Catholic Church contained the highest percentage of offenders, it could point to a systemic problem within the faith. If it does not, there may or may not be a systemic problem and it may or may not be within the faith itself but in another aspect of the formation. training, and administration of priests

Someone on anther thread, seemingly to defend the CC, brought up Jim Swaggart, David Koresh, Jim Jones and Jim Baker, to show us how it’s a protestant problem too. Now here’s my point as a response to the post I quoted: how much media time did each of these men and thier organizations get after their HUGE sins were exposed? In fact, there was something of the TV the other week about Jim Jones: his adopted son was interviewed. So to say the CC gets more press than protestant offenders, well you be the judge.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

This appears to be the link which gives some details of Protestant pastors who have been accused of child or sexual abuse of some sort or another. As someone else commented, most of the cases are recent, and if we were to include all cases back to the 1960’s and 70’s, ie. the same time frame as for the Catholic Church, then the number would presumably be much higher.

reformation.com/

There is a rider on the home page which admits the problem is universal.

All this tells me is that the problem is universal. What the total would be if we took into account all cases, both religious and irreligious, then the problem could seem overwhelming.

In other words it happens in Catholic and Protestant churches, and I suspect Orthodox churches also, and I also think the ratios are similar, when it’s all said and done.

But as a Protestant convert to the Catholic Church, and I do believe it is closest to the truth, what’s really beginning to annoy me is the persistent cover-ups by hierarchy. That’s what’s getting on my goat. We’re all sinners, but when the sin is persistent, people are damaged, and the best the hierarchy can do is to shuffle the bloke around, then it doesn’t say much for their management.

I just wish they’d get on with getting rid of clergy who shouldn’t be clergy, even if they’ve got a shortage of them. How the hell do they expect to inspire young catholic men to take up the priesthood when this sort of reputation is doing the rounds? My old pastor commented to me years ago before all this stuff hit the media that he thought there’d be a major scandal for the Catholic Church. His brief summary was “There’s been a lot of them”.

It’s the coverups that are the real bug bear, as far as the reputation of the church is concerned. The offences were committed by individuals, and they are the ones who are going to answer for them. I think Christ was chillingly clear about that.

But when the Church covers these things up, it gives the whole church a bad name. And now the Pope himself is being dragged into it.

 

[jen_fla]

You have a valid point from experience. On the other threads about priests, many brought up about the protestant problems. Human nature is human nature and we all like to deflect from our sinfulness to others. It makes us fee justified and better. It’s kind of a coverup at the expense of others.

it is not a cover up nor is this thread in any way “deflecting from our sinfulness.” every single person on this thread knows this crime and any cover up of such crime is wrong. period.

peace.

 

[jen_fla]

These numbers arent even close to the 4,392 priests identified in the John Jay report alone. If you bring in Ireland, Brazil and other countries, that number rockets. The figures are worse still when you add nuns and religious brothers to the figures.

(I defy anyone to read the testimonies of the victims of the Daughters of Charity and the Christian Brothers and not shed a tear!).

I’m not sure such comprisons are helpful in any way to the Catholic Church.

Im certain ALL churchs have their sexual deviants.

The issue at the heart of the abuse in the Catholic church is the superhuman lengths all those involved went to to cover the abuse up - even if that meant the suicide of the victim!!!

It seemed like a case of by all means necessary to prevent scandal at all costs.

No other church appears to have gone to the same lengths as the Catholic church to do this. And I use ‘‘appears’’ advisedly.

again sexual abuse and covering it up are two different crimes. obviously both are unacceptable. this thread didn’t focus primarily on the covering up part, but i suppose we can shift to that, but God forbid i post threads showing how Jews, protestants, buddhists, hindus and public organizations have covered up such abuses then i’ll just be accused of deflecting or condoning the behavior of criminal Catholics. it’s simply data to make us more aware of the reality around us.

so far though i have posted some reports showing serious cover ups in the orthodox Jewish community, the un and other protestant churches.

peace.

 

[jen_fla]

so far from what i’ve read in terms of covering up, i’ve yet to see proof that the Pope was guilty in anyway other than he chose to let a dying pervert live out his last days removed from the Church instead of starting up a canonical trial. in all these cases though i do not understand why the victims did not go to the police themselves.

rest here

*Today’s front-page story in the New York Times suggests that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), under the direction of then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, failed to act against a Wisconsin priest who was accused of molesting scores of boys at a school for the deaf.

Is the story damaging? Yes. Should the Vatican have acted faster? Yes. Should the accused priest have been laicized? In all probability, Yes again.

Nevertheless, before assigning all blame to the Vatican, consider these factors:

1. The allegations of abuse by Father Lawrence Murphy began in 1955 and continued in 1974, according to the Times account. The Vatican was first notified in 1996: 40 years after Church officials in Wisconsin were first made aware of the problem. Local Church leaders could have taken action in the 1950s. They didn’t.
2. The Vatican, following the standard procedures required by canon law, kept its own inquiries confidential. But the CDF never barred other investigations. Local Church officials could have given police all the information they had about the allegations against Murphy. Indeed they could have informed police 40 years earlier. They didn’t.
3. Milwaukee’s Archbishop Cousins could have suspended Father Murphy from priestly ministry in 1974, when he was evidently convinced that the priest was guilty of gross misconduct. He didn’t. Instead he transferred the predator priest to a new diocese, allowing him to continue pastoral work giving him access to other innocent young people. And as if that weren’t enough, later Archbishop Weakland made sure that there was no “paper trail.” There was certainly a cover-up in this case. It was in Milwaukee, not in Rome.
4. Having called the Vatican’s attention to Murphy’s case, Archbishop Weakland apparently wanted an immediate response, and was unhappy that the CDF took 8 months to respond. But again, the Milwaukee archdiocese had waited decades to take this action. Because the Milwaukee archdiocese had waited so long to take action, the canonical statute of limitations had become an important factor in the Vatican’s decision to advise against an ecclesiastical trial.
5. In a plea for mercy addressed to Cardinal Ratzinger, Father Murphy said that he had repented his misdeeds, was guilty of no recent misconduct, and was in failing health. Earlier this month Msgr. Charles Scicluna, the chief Vatican prosecutor in sex-abuse cases, explained that in many cases involving elderly or ailing priests, the CDF chooses to forego a full canonical trial, instead ordering the priest to remove himself from public ministry and devote his remaining days to penance and prayer. This was, in effect, the final result of the Vatican’s inquiry in this case; Father Murphy died just months later.
6. The correspondence makes it clear that Archbishop Weakland took action not because he wanted to protect the public from an abusive priest, but because he wanted to avoid the huge public outcry that he predicted would emerge if Murphy was not disciplined. In 1996, when the archbishop made that prediction, the public outcry would–and should–have been focused on the Milwaukee archdiocese, if it had materialized. Now, 14 years later, a much more intense public outcry is focused on the Vatican. The anger is justifiable, but it is misdirected.

This is a story about the abject failure of the Milwaukee archdiocese to discipline a dangerous priest, and the tardy effort by Archbishop Weakland–who would soon become the subject of a major scandal himself–to shift responsibility to Rome. *

 

[jen_fla]

The following is the full text of the statement given to the New York Times on Wednesday by Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, the director of the Vatican press office.

---

The tragic case of Father Lawrence Murphy, a priest of the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, involved particularly vulnerable victims who suffered terribly from what he did. By sexually abusing children who were hearing-impaired, Father Murphy violated the law and, more importantly, the sacred trust that his victims had placed in him.

During the mid-1970s, some of Father Murphy’s victims reported his abuse to civil authorities, who investigated him at that time; however, according to news reports, that investigation was dropped. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was not informed of the matter until some twenty years later.

It has been suggested that a relationship exists between the application of Crimen sollicitationis and the non-reporting of child abuse to civil authorities in this case. In fact, there is no such relationship. Indeed, contrary to some statements that have circulated in the press, neither Crimen nor the Code of Canon Law ever prohibited the reporting of child abuse to law enforcement authorities.

In the late 1990s, after over two decades had passed since the abuse had been reported to diocesan officials and the police, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was presented for the first time with the question of how to treat the Murphy case canonically. The Congregation was informed of the matter because it involved solicitation in the confessional, which is a violation of the Sacrament of Penance. It is important to note that the canonical question presented to the Congregation was unrelated to any potential civil or criminal proceedings against Father Murphy.

In such cases, the Code of Canon Law does not envision automatic penalties, but recommends that a judgment be made not excluding even the greatest ecclesiastical penalty of dismissal from the clerical state (cf. Canon 1395, no. 2). In light of the facts that Father Murphy was elderly and in very poor health, and that he was living in seclusion and no allegations of abuse had been reported in over 20 years, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith suggested that the Archbishop of Milwaukee give consideration to addressing the situation by, for example, restricting Father Murphy’s public ministry and requiring that Father Murphy accept full responsibility for the gravity of his acts. Father Murphy died approximately four months later, without further incident.

 

[jen_fla]

These numbers arent even close to the 4,392 priests identified in the John Jay report alone. If you bring in Ireland, Brazil and other countries, that number rockets. The figures are worse still when you add nuns and religious brothers to the figures.

(I defy anyone to read the testimonies of the victims of the Daughters of Charity and the Christian Brothers and not shed a tear!).

I’m not sure such comprisons are helpful in any way to the Catholic Church.

Im certain ALL churchs have their sexual deviants.

The issue at the heart of the abuse in the Catholic church is the superhuman lengths all those involved went to to cover the abuse up - even if that meant the suicide of the victim!!!

It seemed like a case of by all means necessary to prevent scandal at all costs.

No other church appears to have gone to the same lengths as the Catholic church to do this. And I use ‘‘appears’’ advisedly.

that is only one collection of reports and it is not complete in that anyone can mail in credible links to other news articles. so it is fair to assume there are more. in addition those are pretty recent whereas the explosion of the scandals recently have been anywhere from 30 to over 51 years ago. why they are exploding now, i do not know. however:
*
The number of abuse victims, allegations and offending clergy in the U.S. dropped in 2009 to their lowest numbers since data started being collected in 2004, the report said. * rest here

there are many links on this thread i suggest you read as there seems to be some people on here that keep giving their opinions that this problem is by far the worst in the CC and yet none of them have provided any resources.

again, this is not a war, but rather an examination of data and comparing that data to what we hear in the mainstream news.

peace.

 

[Dokimas]

that is only one collection of reports and it is not complete in that anyone can mail in credible links to other news articles. so it is fair to assume there are more. in addition those are pretty recent whereas the explosion of the scandals recently have been anywhere from 30 to over 51 years ago. why they are exploding now, i do not know. however:
*
The number of abuse victims, allegations and offending clergy in the U.S. dropped in 2009 to their lowest numbers since data started being collected in 2004, the report said. * rest here

there are many links on this thread i suggest you read as there seems to be some people on here that keep giving their opinions that this problem is by far the worst in the CC and yet none of them have provided any resources.

again, this is not a war, but rather an examination of data and comparing that data to what we hear in the mainstream news.

peace.

Okay, has any action been taken against those in the Milwaukee diocese who knew about Mr Murphy before 1990s and did nothing but move him around?​

Good to see that 2009 has a drop in problems. Glad all this is coming to light. I’m sure that when sin is exposed and dealt with properly, sinners think twice before acting.

 

[jen_fla]

Okay, has any action been taken against those in the Milwaukee diocese who knew about Mr Murphy before 1990s and did nothing but move him around?​

Good to see that 2009 has a drop in problems. Glad all this is coming to light. I’m sure that when sin is exposed and dealt with properly, sinners think twice before acting.

i will see what i can dig up for your first question, but it might not be until tomorrow.i hope you are right regarding the rest, but how many times have we heard of sexual offenders getting released from prison only to keep on committing crimes. i don’t think these deviants can be cured and hopefully our court systems will start handing out more severe sentences.

 

[jen_fla]

seeing that figures have shown there has been a decline in abuse cases in the CC and that the Church has already placed stricter guidelines on how to handle such events, and given the fact that the latest media explosion has been for cases that were 30 to 50 years ago, i had to wonder why they popped up now in history and then today someone randomly sent me this video. this was made before these scandals exploded and given with what has been going on in politics recently it does make one pause.

obama’s Catholic Plan try to get past the fact that this guy looks exactly like stuart smalley

and before anyone says i am using this video somehow as an excuse, please read the following closely. i do not, have not and never will condone sexual abuse or the covering up of such crimes by anyone of any creed. i am not trying to pass the buck here, but when we look at the timing on all this, it does make one wonder. perhaps anyone reading the ny times articles regarding Catholics and the health care bill might see them in a different light.

and no, i am not wearing a tin foil hat! , but yes, i am guilty of loving all the episodes of conspiracy theory with jesse ventura!

peace.

 

[joe_clark]

seeing that figures have shown there has been a decline in abuse cases in the CC and that the Church has already placed stricter guidelines on how to handle such events, and given the fact that the latest media explosion has been for cases that were 30 to 50 years ago, i had to wonder why they popped up now in history and then today someone randomly sent me this video. this was made before these scandals exploded and given with what has been going on in politics recently it does make one pause.

obama’s Catholic Plan try to get past the fact that this guy looks exactly like stuart smalley

and before anyone says i am using this video somehow as an excuse, please read the following closely. i do not, have not and never will condone sexual abuse or the covering up of such crimes by anyone of any creed. i am not trying to pass the buck here, but when we look at the timing on all this, it does make one wonder. perhaps anyone reading the ny times articles regarding Catholics and the health care bill might see them in a different light.

and no, i am not wearing a tin foil hat! , but yes, i am guilty of loving all the episodes of conspiracy theory with jesse ventura!

peace.

We can look at all the pretty charts and graphs and ponder the universe, but pedophillia is still a crime. I have read many reports to include but not limited to The City of Philadelphia grand jury indicted the Philadelphia archdiocese in a 418-page report

philadelphiadistrictattor…es/1/index.htm

detailing rampant pedophilia and sexual abuse and The John Jay study. Folks with all due respect, I can tell you both reports do not tell me that all is well in the church and for children.

The clinical separation of homosexuality and child molesting was acknowledged by the appearance of the words “pedophilia” and “pedophile.” From the Oxford English Dictionary:
Pædophilia. An abnormal, esp. sexual, love of young children.

1906 H. ELLIS Stud. Psychol. Sex V. i. 11 Paidophilia or the love of children . . . may be included under this head [sc. abnormality]. 1926 Med. Jrnl. & Rec. CXXIV. 161/1 One must keep clearly in mind in dealing with pedophilia the distinction between that mediating homosexuality, and the much more pure perversion which is our subject. . . . Hence pædophiliac, -philic adjs., pertaining to or characterized by pædophilia; also as n., a pædophilic person.

1927 Psychoanal. Review XIV. 191 It is only in rare cases that one encounters an individual who has pedophilic predilections and at the same time is suffering from venereal disease. Ibid., Krafft-Ebing . . . in his attempt at psychological explanation falls back on ‘a morbid disposition only’ on the part of the pedophalic [sic] as the motivating factor.
1960 Spectator 8 July 69 The . . . survey . . . shows the paedophiliac to be a type altogether distinct from the adult-seeking homosexual. .

Kathryn Conroy is assistant dean of Columbia University’s School of Social Work. She recently pointed out in The New York Times, “What is forgotten in all of the hysteria about priest sexual abuse is that pedophilia is about a sexual attraction to children (most often, regardless of their sex) and about access.” Dr. Conroy also made the most pertinent point:

Reliable studies show that pedophiles (those adults who sexually abuse children) are overwhelmingly heterosexual. In fact, homosexuals are statistically underrepresented as those who sexually abuse children. . . .
Further, women have far lower rates of sexually abusing children than men do.

The legal status of pederasty in most countries is currently determined by whether or not the “child” has reached the local age of consent. When illegal, like in the United States, law enforcement treats it as child sexual abuse.

At this point, No one can say that pedophillia in the church did not happen, so It appears to me the John Jay study is more about minimizing the damage (charts -graphs - age of the abused child 0 to 15 years of age is somehow a deciding factor?) than actually do something about the pedophillia. There is no defense for splitting hairs here. No one is buying it.

We need to take care of our own house first before pointing fingers at others. The pot and the kettle.