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nana3
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I don’t know where to start. Thank you for all your advice and I do take this all seriously and hate the idea of someone sexually abusing this little girl and getting to my dd as well. First all of if you have not read my previous threads, “When it is too much” then you would not know that things between my sister and her ex are really bad. My sister was found to be in contempt for not giving her ex the kids this past summer for he had 4 protective services report done on him. Nothing came from those reports. I read two of those reports and the person who did the interview agrees that the children safety is in danger at the dads, nothing was done. The other report agrees that the dad used excessive force in “spanking” his son, but called it “potentially physically abusive.” My sister’s ex and his new wife are both COPS and the protective services choose to listen to them rather than my sister and the children. I did one of those calls to child protective services. The verbal and emotional abuse continues and nothing is done. The judge, in the November 7th date, could not hear the children’s therapist for he has the right to say that he doesn’t want her to testify and reveal what was said in therapy. The first time the ex saw the therapist really to testify two months before the November date, he immediately had his attorneys intimidate her into not treating his children anymore. He withdrew his consent to therapy. My sister tried with other therapist and no one in this area would see the children without the dad’s permission for they have shared parenting. So, in court, the children’s voices were not heard. I could not testify nor my sister on behalf of the children for it was all hear say. The judge ordered therapy for the children, but the ex has not provided the three names of therapist that he is suppose to to my sister’s attorney. He is choosing to ignore the judges order. My sister and her ex do not talk and things are real bad with them. SHe has tried and he refuses. She can not call her kids when they are with him, only if he allows it. He ignores all her calls. There is so much that I know my niece is crying for help even if there is no sexual abuse. Yes, she could be exposed to pornography for her dad could have the materials and so could the two teenagers. I was told by my niece that the 17 year old is always in dark clothing and her mother is not to enter her room and the blinds are taped with duct tape for she likes it dark. These teen are problem teens to begin with for they have an abusive mom. Yes, the court knows that the dad got into this relationship with the new wife as soon as he left my sister. HE got remarried a month after the divorce was finalized. I talked to him, my sister talked to him of the damage he is doing by exposing the children to a new woman so soon. His answer is that he has to live too. My sister has tried, and I say tried to talk to him of the damage of forcing the kids to call this woman their new mom. He doesn’t care and doesn’t see that he is doing anything wrong. I heard him myself, when he forced his children out of my car, for they got in after school and he was to pick them up, tell his daughter to “chuck it up” when she said she did not want to go to his house. We went to the police twice to report that the kids do not want to go to the dad’s and that my niece cries days before and they all said the same thing, “They are children and need to obey and go with the dad.” This is what we are up against. My sister was told by the child protective service’s manager that if she kept reporting things that they would take the kids away from both parents.
The kids need counseling, but can’t have any without the dad’s permission. The court is now going to have to order it and assign a person, or that is what my sister’s new attorney is going to have done for she already gave the dad 7 days to respond to her letter.
For all these reasons, we have to be so careful what we report. I will admit that I am scared for my niece, but besides reporting, what else can be done. I will say that I am going to have my sister make an appt. with a doctor to have my niece checked out physically. If it is sexual abuse, then that part will be revealed. Her in the state of Florida in the family court system it is impossible to give a father supervised visitation unless it is sexual abuse. Physical and emotional abuse don’t matter here. No one defends the kids!!!
The kids need counseling, but can’t have any without the dad’s permission. The court is now going to have to order it and assign a person, or that is what my sister’s new attorney is going to have done for she already gave the dad 7 days to respond to her letter.
For all these reasons, we have to be so careful what we report. I will admit that I am scared for my niece, but besides reporting, what else can be done. I will say that I am going to have my sister make an appt. with a doctor to have my niece checked out physically. If it is sexual abuse, then that part will be revealed. Her in the state of Florida in the family court system it is impossible to give a father supervised visitation unless it is sexual abuse. Physical and emotional abuse don’t matter here. No one defends the kids!!!
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gmarie21
Guest
Can your sister take herself and her daughter to a safe house? She should talk to her lawyer about that, but it may be a smart move. Also, can your sister find a new lawyer? Can she raise hll with those higher ups? Bring it to the county seat? To the governor, senator, representative, media? She needs to raise holy hll and she needs to do it yesterday. Is she really going to let a court tell her that her abused daughter should keep going back to the abuser? She needs to become a pest to those involved with the law until her daughter is protected. I mean, she needs to call and bug them daily, hourly if necessary. The squeaky wheel gets the oil most of the time, and hopefully in this case that will happen.
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Orogeny
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Nana, I sympathise with your position. Taking the girl to a doctor is a great idea because if the doctor does suspect something, he or she will make a report (legally, they must). However, you really need to call protective services and be very specific about what you have observed. Let them take it from there. They are the pros and know exactly what to look for and how to investigate. Although the judge has not acted on their recommendations in the past, continued bad reports will eventually force the judge into action. Plus, if sexual abuse is substantiated, the perpetrator (it may not be the father) will be facing a different judge.For all these reasons, we have to be so careful what we report. I will admit that I am scared for my niece, but besides reporting, what else can be done. I will say that I am going to have my sister make an appt. with a doctor to have my niece checked out physically. If it is sexual abuse, then that part will be revealed. Her in the state of Florida in the family court system it is impossible to give a father supervised visitation unless it is sexual abuse. Physical and emotional abuse don’t matter here. No one defends the kids!!!
Keep the faith. Do what you know is right.
Peace
Tim
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sb981
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Is there a guardian ad litem or court appointed special advocate program in your area? That way the children would have someone speaking for them.
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kage_ar
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Do what you can for your sister and niece - you may be limited there.
For your own daughter, you need to protect her and make sure she knows she can trust you and you will believe her. Get someone who is trained to speak to your daughter, that is my advice.
For your own daughter, you need to protect her and make sure she knows she can trust you and you will believe her. Get someone who is trained to speak to your daughter, that is my advice.
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nana3
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My sister did get a new attorney for her old one did not represent her correctly and was the one to encourage her not to give the kids to the dad in the summer, but then the last two weeks of summer vacation encouraged my sister to give him the kids which she did. My niece cried every day, every minute while at her dad’s. The dad felt it was that she need to 'get use to the idea of being away from mommy." He fails to see the anxiety in his daughter and this is evident for her punished her one time for lying about eating some corn and let her home alone, and this could also be the fear my niece has of being alone. She had it before this punishment, but it is worse now. SHe tells me if she has a bad dream at night at her dad’s she is not allowed to go into his bedroom. What a father!
This new attorney’s first order was to get these kids a guardian ad litem and this takes time for she needs to go to court for it. She is happy in a way that the dad is choosing to ignore her letters about the counseling for this is not looking good for him before the judge. THe judge asked him in court if he had a problem of his children seeing a counselor and he said no but yes to the current one for she was negative about him. This is what he said of the one before that also. They find negative things for he is a terrible dad. We await a court date for the appt. of a guardian, but it is also $5000.00. My parents are willing to pay half and I half. The reason my sister did not get this before this time was because of money. There are some that are free, but due to the complexity of this case both lawyers tell my sister that they need the trained psychologist which is the one you have to pay. The ex and his wife are very good at hiding the truth and telling lies. THis woman use to show up every time they picked up the kids from school despite my sister telling the ex that it is not good to bring his wife until the kids get use to the idea. The judge said the same thing and now she doesn’t show up at pick ups.
To be honest my niece doesn’t say anything anymore for when it comes out in court that she told someone, when she goes to her dad she would get yelled at. My ex BIL has a terrible temper and his son who misbehaves as a normal 7 yr old boy gets his anger the most. He has emotional problems and learning disabilities. My sister depleted all her money from their house sell paying for attorneys and paying for a specialist in sensory integration for her son. The dad refuses to pay and his insurance that he has the kids on won’t cover it. It is $120.00 every visit, but due to this he is doing better in school and may pass kindergarten this time.
But back to your question, yes we are waiting on a court date for a guardian to be appointed.
By the way, my niece woke up this morning screaming and in hysterics when my sister woke up at 6 am. She realize her mother was not in bed and it was dark. My sister comforted her and she went back to sleep, but had to be awaken at 6:30 am to get really for school. When she was awaken she woke up again crying and screaming, “mommy, mommy,…” My sister had to hold her and hug her for 20 minutes and still doesn’t know why she woke up like this. She did just had her weekend with her dad this past weekend. Yes, we are recording everything down in a contact log. My sister has a recorded message her ex left on her machine when he was so angry because he wanted the kids the next day after school and my niece had to serve a detention for missed homework. We are saving this tape also for the judge has a image of a nice man who just wants what is best for his children and he is the victim of my sister’s refusal of giving the kids to. This tape will show the judge the real him and how angry he can get and gets with the children. My niece wants to talk to a therapist real bad and tells us so daily.
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nana3
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What do I know to be right, I would call child services but when I don’t leave my name, the ex assumes it is my sister and this could be bad on her case. I will have her ask her new attorney. Her old one said we needed proof. The kids feel hopeless for when they do speak, nothing gets done and they still have to go to dads. My nephew just told me on Monday, after his dad dropped him off at school in 36 degree weather with no jacket and sick, that his dad got very close to his face on Saturday and yelled at him real loud, “Go to your room.” He apparently kicked his sister and was sent to his room, but even my niece said it was way to much anger out of his mouth. Both kids are afraid of their dad and do not respect him, but fear him.
Let me add that one therapist has called child services. She told them that my nephew revealed that his step-sisters played with sharp knives and place it to each others throat. The other therapist reported her suspicions to my sisters attorney and wrote a letter that something is wrong at the dad’s and my niece should not go over there for a week at a time because it is not in the best interest of the child. This is the therapist that has been silenced and is afraid to get involved. My sister begged her to call child protective services but she said she only has suspicions. If you read her letter, you would be sure that she did have evidence to report, but she refuses to call them.
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nana3
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In the summer, my sister did file a restraining order against her husband and his wife. When it went to court to see if it should continue, the judge made fun of my sister’s fear and questioned her as if she was the one on trial. He knew the others were cops. They just wanted to get their guns back for they are taken away from cops when there is a restraining order against them. They lied in court and said they would stay away from the kids and my sister until the emergency hearing was heard on the children’s safety. This hearing never took place for my sister’s attorney was a fool, sorry but there was no excuse for letting it slip especially since my sister asked her so many times what was going on with the court date. My sister will not go to a safe house for she refuses to hide and live in fear, or that is what she told me and the police. One of the children, my nephew does like to go to his dad and runs to him in joy when he comes to pick them up. My niece is the one that goes crying until recently. She doesn’t cry in front of her dad for their dad has told them both that he doesn’t allow crying and in fact when they do cry, he treats them as criminals and show no emotions. My niece told me once that she cried for her mother and wanted a hug from her dad and he pushed her off of him and said, not when you are crying.
There is more and the child services people are aware of it all, and they do nothing. They are the ones who are to protect children and don’t. I heard that a 2 yr. old died in Texas when she was visiting a family that has had been reported and investigated for not having safe conditions. I hate to say it, but a child has to be died or really hurt before they do anything. My sister was even mocked at by the injunction judge when he heard at child services did nothing which in his eyes means that she is over protective and making false reports. The new judge she has now is an ex-child protective services judge and we hope for things to be different. I don’t understand why he left the decision of choosing a counselor to the dad, except to see if the dad would do it which he is not. He has had two months to choose one.
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Brenda_V
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Nana3 - I see you have done the calling. This is very important that a paper trail be made. Can you call the National hotline to see if they have any other suggestions? It sounds like the father has the system down pat and is part of the system. Let the people at the national hotline know about dad and his connection to the local authorities, they might have a way to help you. You might ask the lawyer too if your sister can take this out of County for judgement - the City/County judges may be too close and should be recusing (I think that is the word) themselves from the case. Also, if removing the children right now from both parents is what the authorities want to do then your sister may need to let it happen, letting the children know she is working on getting them back but in the meantime this will keep them away from a worse situation.
I will be praying for you all. I do think that going to an domestic abuse shelter is not a bad idea either.
It just makes me sick to hear of people who treat children like this. And then to hear how the authorities are so slow in taking care of it, aaaaah.
Brenda V.
I will be praying for you all. I do think that going to an domestic abuse shelter is not a bad idea either.
It just makes me sick to hear of people who treat children like this. And then to hear how the authorities are so slow in taking care of it, aaaaah.
Brenda V.
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nana3
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Thanks Brenda for you prayers, my niece needs them the most. My sister had a meeting with her teachers today and they for the first time included my niece. She need to do the homework and turn them in. She is leaving them at school. They realize that she is under a lot of stress, but didn’t pay to much attention to that. This school has not been supportive toward my sister at all. She has needed certain things from them and they refuse it. One was a letter from the school counselor so that the judge would see the kids needed counseling, but the counselor refused to get involved and the school also. These teachers did suggest that my sister seek a support group to handle her controlling ex husband. She was seeing a counseling for a while, but he was to expensive, but he was helping her cope and also helping her to help her children. My sister just called me now and I don’t know if it is denial or if she talked with her daughter, but she doesn’t believe sexual abuse is going on. She does believe that the physical, emotional and verbal abuse continues and that is why her dd is worse. I begged her to still have her dd checked out by a doctor, but she said she will think about it. I don’t think she likes to think about this. She was upset for she just got a call from her ex.
She said her ex just got off the phone with her. He called her for he is not paying child support and hasn’t for months. This new attorney of my sister must have served him with papers for he called her tonight and said that he doesn’t understand why she needs to get attorneys involved that he will be paying child support once his daycare business gets going. He went on telling her that he owes his attorney $10,000.00. She told him that was not her concern and that she was tired of hearing his lies and that for months now he says he will pay child support and has not. He is not even paying half of the medical bills that he is suppose to. She send them certified to him and he refuses the letters. He just wants the kids with no other obligation. He yelled at her on the phone and she told him that he needs to talk to her attorney and not her unless it has to do with the children directly. He did not ask to speak to the kids or even asked how they were. He hung up on her for he was angry.
I did call this hotline once before and asked question, but they directed me to call our department of children and families here in Florida. They are the ones that do nothing. Yes, my ex BIL knows the system and how to use it. He has turned things to make my sister look like the bad one.
My sister, who is a personal trainer, happen to train a crisis counselor today. She told my sister that she sees worse situation then what she is describing and that Florida needs laws to change. RIght now, Florida punishes mothers who protect their children and imprison them or find them in contempt. This is what happened to my sister. This woman said that she is studing to be a lawyer and wants to defend these children and their mothers and help change the law here in Florida. She admits that our DCF, or department of children and family is useless. They are all overworked and underpaid. She is disgusted with the system. She even told her that she gives troubled teens her number and she is not suppose to, but she wants to show these kids that someone does care about them.
She said her ex just got off the phone with her. He called her for he is not paying child support and hasn’t for months. This new attorney of my sister must have served him with papers for he called her tonight and said that he doesn’t understand why she needs to get attorneys involved that he will be paying child support once his daycare business gets going. He went on telling her that he owes his attorney $10,000.00. She told him that was not her concern and that she was tired of hearing his lies and that for months now he says he will pay child support and has not. He is not even paying half of the medical bills that he is suppose to. She send them certified to him and he refuses the letters. He just wants the kids with no other obligation. He yelled at her on the phone and she told him that he needs to talk to her attorney and not her unless it has to do with the children directly. He did not ask to speak to the kids or even asked how they were. He hung up on her for he was angry.
I did call this hotline once before and asked question, but they directed me to call our department of children and families here in Florida. They are the ones that do nothing. Yes, my ex BIL knows the system and how to use it. He has turned things to make my sister look like the bad one.
My sister, who is a personal trainer, happen to train a crisis counselor today. She told my sister that she sees worse situation then what she is describing and that Florida needs laws to change. RIght now, Florida punishes mothers who protect their children and imprison them or find them in contempt. This is what happened to my sister. This woman said that she is studing to be a lawyer and wants to defend these children and their mothers and help change the law here in Florida. She admits that our DCF, or department of children and family is useless. They are all overworked and underpaid. She is disgusted with the system. She even told her that she gives troubled teens her number and she is not suppose to, but she wants to show these kids that someone does care about them.
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maria29
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Is there anyway you can get copies of all of your neices files from the therapists who refuse to testify? Perhaps this too will help build a case…I hate that its children involved, it always makes it so much harder…
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maria29
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maria29
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nana3
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Maria29 and to all who have been sexually abuse, I am so sorry that this had to happen to you and trust me, I do hope that it is not happening to my niece. I just got off the phone with my sister and convinced her to have a physical on her dd so that she would not know why the doctor has to check her down there. She is making the appointment tomorrow. If there is sexual abuse, then this will come out and it will be the doctor who will do the reporting to child services. My sister is trying so hard to get full custody of her children, but it is just unheard of here in Florida. The laws do not protect the kids. Let me give you of a very severe example of child abuse. My sister’s attorney was representing a man she called a monster, but she was hired by him from jail. He beat his 5 yr. old daughter with a broom stick so hard that he broke the stick and put her in the hospital. Child services had prior calls on this father, but did nothing. They did take the child away from him while he was in jail, but gave him the child when he promised to go to anger management. The child’s mother was crying and didn’t want her daughter to go to the dad’s anymore. She had to allow it by law. He put his child in the hospital and was arrested for child abuse and child services gave him the child again and without supervision. This is the system we are up against. I do believe in miracles and we need one, but the laws here are for both parents. The State of Florida feels that what is best for the child is having both parents in their lives regularly. They will not take this away from neither parent unless their is sexual abuse and even this has to be proven.
My sister called me tonight crying. Her kids are suffering fromt he verbal and physical abuse at the dads and take it out on her. My nephew has severe anger outburst and they were getting better until the dad stopped all counseling. My niece came out this evening dressed like a teenager, not immodest, but just wearing her cap the wrong way, high heels and etc. She knows her mother likes her to dress her age. The shoes were given by the dad and so was the cap, not that it is wrong to wear caps. It is also her attitude. My sister said she could not take it anymore and broke down and went into her house and cried. She even told the kids that maybe they should live with their dad since they have no respect for her. She felt bad after saying this, but she is a mess as well. Her kids are in desperate need of counseling. They are acting out. She has an appointment for her son tomorrow and will make the appt. for her daughter than. He has been suffering from headaches ever since he came from his dad’s about four weeks ago with a huge bump on his head. She took him to the doctors for she did not know if this was abuse by the dad, but my nephew told her and the doctor that he ran into a table when he feel. He does fall a lot, but who knows what happened. He is afraid of his dad as well. The doctor did not report this for the child did not tell him that his dad did this.
Please, I am not making excuses and I know that the kids should not be going to the dad’s at all, but they have to by law. If my sister refuses, she will go to jail this time. The judge did not do anything this time when she was found in contempt, but I think he knows there is something going on with the children. We have heard of judges talking to the kids and my niece is really to talk to him. Please, pray for these children. THey are suffering, my sister is suffering and all who love them suffer. This is just a horrible experience. My niece is even very angry at God for allowing this to happen to her. She tells me she is living in a nightmare. Yes, there is abuse going on at the dad’s, physical, emotional and verbal, but child services is aware of it and has done nothing. One thing I have wanted to do though for a long time is submit the letter from the therapist to child services. I know they said if they found evidence of abuse next time, they would take the kids away from dad. There has to be proof though and the kids must be able to tell them what is going on at that household.
I will talk to my sister’s attorney about all this and my desire to call child services myself and submit this letter of the therapist. They can then go to her and ask question so that we can stop the summer visitations at least. In the summer, they have to go to their dad’s two weeks at a time. Spring Break is coming up and they have to spend 4 days with their dad. Please, pray for a miracle. WE are still awaiting for the lawyer to call us on all this.
Thanks for all your prayers and advice. I will let you know what the doctor found with my niece.
My sister called me tonight crying. Her kids are suffering fromt he verbal and physical abuse at the dads and take it out on her. My nephew has severe anger outburst and they were getting better until the dad stopped all counseling. My niece came out this evening dressed like a teenager, not immodest, but just wearing her cap the wrong way, high heels and etc. She knows her mother likes her to dress her age. The shoes were given by the dad and so was the cap, not that it is wrong to wear caps. It is also her attitude. My sister said she could not take it anymore and broke down and went into her house and cried. She even told the kids that maybe they should live with their dad since they have no respect for her. She felt bad after saying this, but she is a mess as well. Her kids are in desperate need of counseling. They are acting out. She has an appointment for her son tomorrow and will make the appt. for her daughter than. He has been suffering from headaches ever since he came from his dad’s about four weeks ago with a huge bump on his head. She took him to the doctors for she did not know if this was abuse by the dad, but my nephew told her and the doctor that he ran into a table when he feel. He does fall a lot, but who knows what happened. He is afraid of his dad as well. The doctor did not report this for the child did not tell him that his dad did this.
Please, I am not making excuses and I know that the kids should not be going to the dad’s at all, but they have to by law. If my sister refuses, she will go to jail this time. The judge did not do anything this time when she was found in contempt, but I think he knows there is something going on with the children. We have heard of judges talking to the kids and my niece is really to talk to him. Please, pray for these children. THey are suffering, my sister is suffering and all who love them suffer. This is just a horrible experience. My niece is even very angry at God for allowing this to happen to her. She tells me she is living in a nightmare. Yes, there is abuse going on at the dad’s, physical, emotional and verbal, but child services is aware of it and has done nothing. One thing I have wanted to do though for a long time is submit the letter from the therapist to child services. I know they said if they found evidence of abuse next time, they would take the kids away from dad. There has to be proof though and the kids must be able to tell them what is going on at that household.
I will talk to my sister’s attorney about all this and my desire to call child services myself and submit this letter of the therapist. They can then go to her and ask question so that we can stop the summer visitations at least. In the summer, they have to go to their dad’s two weeks at a time. Spring Break is coming up and they have to spend 4 days with their dad. Please, pray for a miracle. WE are still awaiting for the lawyer to call us on all this.
Thanks for all your prayers and advice. I will let you know what the doctor found with my niece.
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nobody
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I do not believe this is always true. Children heal quickly. Also, there can be s abuse without any physical injury. Don’t put all your eggs in this basket.
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puzzleannie
Guest
a suspected abuser runs a day care? I would have cops and CPS on this so fast it would make your head spin.
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maria29
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**Nana3
thanks for the kind words…What is the new wife like of your ex brother in law? I would have her investigated if your sister can afford it.
If the kids are angry at her or God perhaps she should start getting them together for a nightly prayers or rosary. Do you think your neice and nephew are keeping things from her? I would tell your sister that she needs to have a talk and let them know they have to tell the truth about what is going on no matter what it is and that she will love them no matter what truth is.
I think that is why many children who are abused don’t come forward is because they think (in the cases where it is a family member) that they may lose their parents love. **
thanks for the kind words…What is the new wife like of your ex brother in law? I would have her investigated if your sister can afford it.
If the kids are angry at her or God perhaps she should start getting them together for a nightly prayers or rosary. Do you think your neice and nephew are keeping things from her? I would tell your sister that she needs to have a talk and let them know they have to tell the truth about what is going on no matter what it is and that she will love them no matter what truth is.
I think that is why many children who are abused don’t come forward is because they think (in the cases where it is a family member) that they may lose their parents love. **
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gmarie21
Guest
Can your sister move out of state with the children?
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Gertabelle
Guest
Nana3, you have a moral obligation to contact the agency that protects children! Tell your sister what you’re doing, or don’t. But if you don’t intervene in any and every way possible, you are being complicit in any crime that is taking place. This is a child you are talking about. She needs an adult to help her. Stop waiting for your sister or her attorney or anyone else to help. God is telling you (and so are many of us) that YOU are the one to intervene. How long will you wait? When this little girl is a woman she is going to ask you, “How long did you suspect something and do nothing?” How will you answer her?
Look, there may not be one illegal thing going on. But you don’t know that. Let the experts do their job. This child is crying out for help. BE THE ONE to give it to her!
Please take action, and I don’t mean going over and over the circumstances with us. Put your love for her into a living action.
Blessings and many, many prayers.
Gert
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