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1ke
Guest
ALL contraception is a mortal sin, not just specific methods.
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1ke
Guest
Your logic is seriously flawed here. You are stating this site is pro life, the Church is pro life, therefore the Church must approve everything on this site. That is FALSE.
That would be like saying: Dogs have 4 legs, this object has 4 legs, therefore this object must be a dog. (Not. It’s a chair).
The fact that the site is a pro life group and it shares some things in common with the Catholic Church, does not mean it embraces **fully **Catholic moral teaching on the Sixth Commandment. This group does not.
They are in error regarding contraception being a moral choice. It is not.
You have, in the past, stated these erroneous things about Church teaching. When asked to produce any Church document to support your statements, you cannot and do not. So, maybe it’s time for you to rethink your position and admit it is wrong.
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budgie2
Guest
All contraception is not equal. The eighth commandment is “Thou shalt not steal”. However, there is a massive difference between petty shop lifting and armed robbery. Equally it ‘s wrong to say that all contraception is mortal sin and some people consider Natural Family Planning to be a form of contraception and it is marketed as such in the Pharmacist. Non spermicidal barrier methods are equal to petty shoplifting and abortifacient birth control is equal to armed robbery in the eyes of the priesthood. You shouldn’t contradict me as I have two confessors and I will be a canonised saint. Look for non-spermicidal on the back of the packet of condoms. There’ s a slight risk of spermicide causing abortion (1 in 10 million) but sometimes it can cause slight deformity if it lands on a sperm that succeeds in fertilising an egg. But a woman using hormonal drugs could potentially abort an embryo every year.
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prolifewife
Guest
Why would you risk your baby being that 1 in a million? I have a lot of issues that make me one in a thousand, one in a million, etc. Should I have been aborted?
As there are degrees of sin, mortal and venial, there are also “greater” and “lesser” degrees of sin in each category. Condom use may be a “lesser” mortal sin that say using abortifaciant birth control, but it’s still a mortal sin.
If abundant fertility is your struggle you have a blessing of a cross. To be able to have children is a blessing. 1 in 8 couples struggle or are infertile. I am one of the more severe cases. You have a gift, don’t throw it away. Literally. Think of the sperm inside the condom as your husband’s gift to you being thrown away with the rest of your trash.
If you have serious reasons to postpone, NFP is not a contraceptive. It is a form of NATURAL birth control, but it is not sinful if done NATURALLY. Condoms are far from natural.
Just something to think about. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. :hug3:
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prolifewife
Guest
Back to the original topic. I have read and read about this subject. I can’t seem to find a consistent answer. I realize that purposely climaxing outside the marital embrace is a mortal sin. However, I have read that a small degree of kisses and touches of even the genital area is alright as long as it does not go overboard and certainly not to the point of climaxing. Like taking a shower or getting dressed with your spouse in the morning you might lightly pinch, touch or pat certain areas 
(not to climax of course!) but not actually make love until that evening or the next day. Would this be sinful? Mortal sin? 
(not to climax of course!) but not actually make love until that evening or the next day. Would this be sinful? Mortal sin?
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CatofAlexandria
Guest
Budgie,
Do you know why contraception is wrong? Barrier methods violate natural law. They keep a sexual act between spouses from being both unitive and procreative, robbing the act of its function and its good. It is a mortal sin to do this knowingly with deliberative consent, and all mortal sins keep us from God.
Yes, hormonal birth control, an abortifacient, does more harm than barrier methods, and when used with knowledge of this harm it is a greater sin. But, a moral sin is a mortal sin and all keep us from God. Your analogy is slightly off because this is grave matter.
Please do not advise others to sin, even if you think the sin is lesser. We are all called to be holy and live with God.
Do you know why contraception is wrong? Barrier methods violate natural law. They keep a sexual act between spouses from being both unitive and procreative, robbing the act of its function and its good. It is a mortal sin to do this knowingly with deliberative consent, and all mortal sins keep us from God.
Yes, hormonal birth control, an abortifacient, does more harm than barrier methods, and when used with knowledge of this harm it is a greater sin. But, a moral sin is a mortal sin and all keep us from God. Your analogy is slightly off because this is grave matter.
Please do not advise others to sin, even if you think the sin is lesser. We are all called to be holy and live with God.
J
jilly4ski
Guest
I don’t think we need to take budgie very seriously.
However, to extend your analogy, if you shop lift every day you a week stealing up $100 this would bring you sin of stealing closer to armed robbery, would it not? However your logic is faulty. A mortal sin is a mortal sin, no matter how serious you think it to be. Any mortal sin (which using a barrier method or any contraceptive is) will lead to the loss of your soul if un-repented.
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LittleDeb
Guest
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prolifewife
Guest
Does ANYone know an answer to my question?
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mommamaree
Guest
I don’t know the answer as I have not yet taken the NFP class (that is next month), but I found myself nodding in agreement with the ideas you mentioned. My husband and I are often playful with each other, patting or caressing or showering together, even when we are days away from being able to fall into bed together. It takes a lot for parents to be able to find enough time alone for sex at a moment when they are not already dog-tired, so we try to keep the flame lit with more casual playful touching and kissing. I imagine every couple goes through such times, whether because of periodic abstinence to postpone a pregnancy, or work, or visiting family. Such playful activity is, of course, directed at the moment when we are able to ‘go all the way’ but neither one of us wants to deprive the other of welcome affection during the times when we cannot ‘go all the way’. How could that be wrong? Isn’t that just like extended foreplay, where life’s little interruptions delay the actual event? Just my two cents, though, not a theological answer.Does ANYone know an answer to my question?
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LittleDeb
Guest
Hi Prolifewife,
Sorry I missed your question earlier as this thread got a little strangely side-tracked.
There is the short answer and there is the long answer.
The short answer is that every activity we engage in has natural results. We are required as all human persons to not frustrate those natural results. We can delay the natural result, but we cannot frustrate it.
The long answer is that the application of it varies from couple to couple. Sadly, some couples cannot do the things you mentioned because they cannot direct their sexual urges yet. Some couples find that they have to live as if they aren’t married and are truly courting again. Others are fine with showering and changing and all the things natural to a marriage.
If we really think about it ALL of marriage is about “foreplay.” We, as a fallen world, have separated erotic love from agape love. But the marriage in heaven is what we strive for so we spend every moment of our lives preparing for the marriage feast. It is not sinful to spend every moment of our married lives in a state of so-called “foreplay,” as long as it ordered correctly. Deep affection is what marriage is designed to do. Our fallen culture has perverted what is actually quite beautiful. Living our lives in hope of the marriage act is actually a very good thing.
Clear as mud?
Sorry I missed your question earlier as this thread got a little strangely side-tracked.
There is the short answer and there is the long answer.
The short answer is that every activity we engage in has natural results. We are required as all human persons to not frustrate those natural results. We can delay the natural result, but we cannot frustrate it.
The long answer is that the application of it varies from couple to couple. Sadly, some couples cannot do the things you mentioned because they cannot direct their sexual urges yet. Some couples find that they have to live as if they aren’t married and are truly courting again. Others are fine with showering and changing and all the things natural to a marriage.
If we really think about it ALL of marriage is about “foreplay.” We, as a fallen world, have separated erotic love from agape love. But the marriage in heaven is what we strive for so we spend every moment of our lives preparing for the marriage feast. It is not sinful to spend every moment of our married lives in a state of so-called “foreplay,” as long as it ordered correctly. Deep affection is what marriage is designed to do. Our fallen culture has perverted what is actually quite beautiful. Living our lives in hope of the marriage act is actually a very good thing.
Clear as mud?
T
The_Bucket
Guest
It’s pretty clear cut to me… the only thing not licit in the eyes of God and His Church is to frustrate the natural order of sexuality to strip it of either it’s unitive or procreative natures (or both, for instance in the case of rape).Does ANYone know an answer to my question?
To be earthy (but hopefully not vulgar) then, you can do whatever you please provided it doesn’t result in climax by either party outside of licit sexual relations and doesn’t put either spouse in a situation where he or she would be tempted to sin by finding that “release” on his/her own. Some people have more control than others so the line IS blurry since it honestly varies from individual to individual, but that’s what it is.
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mommamaree
Guest
Beautiful post, so eloquently put, especially that last paragraph. And your description of all of marriage is about foreplay, it is what my husband and I have found to be true. Not necessarily about specific acts of foreplay that some people might have in mind, but more about setting the tone for loving each other as fully as we can, and communicating as intimately as we can, and caresses is a big part of that. I am so thankful for your post!Hi Prolifewife,
Sorry I missed your question earlier as this thread got a little strangely side-tracked.
There is the short answer and there is the long answer.
The short answer is that every activity we engage in has natural results. We are required as all human persons to not frustrate those natural results. We can delay the natural result, but we cannot frustrate it.
The long answer is that the application of it varies from couple to couple. Sadly, some couples cannot do the things you mentioned because they cannot direct their sexual urges yet. Some couples find that they have to live as if they aren’t married and are truly courting again. Others are fine with showering and changing and all the things natural to a marriage.
If we really think about it ALL of marriage is about “foreplay.” We, as a fallen world, have separated erotic love from agape love. But the marriage in heaven is what we strive for so we spend every moment of our lives preparing for the marriage feast. It is not sinful to spend every moment of our married lives in a state of so-called “foreplay,” as long as it ordered correctly. Deep affection is what marriage is designed to do. Our fallen culture has perverted what is actually quite beautiful. Living our lives in hope of the marriage act is actually a very good thing.
Clear as mud?
P
prolifewife
Guest
Mommamaree, Little Deb and The Bucket, those answers were very good and helpful. Sometimes when I read these threads it gets me so scrupulous that I’m afraid to do anything outside the marriage embrace, especially when it deals with “down there”. You have given me a new light and way to go about things. We used to be more playful and loving outside the marital embrace, and it was very beneficial to our marriage. But I’ve been totally afraid of it lately as some make it seem that it is a mortal sin to touch “down there” if the embrace wasn’t directly following the act of love. I’m glad our original way of doing things was correct and that it’s okay, pleasing and holy even in God’s eyes.
Thank you again. :hug3:
Thank you again. :hug3:
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