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Prodigirl
Guest
“Yes, and one does it be avoiding sex, while the other does it by deliberately frustrating sex.”
As far as I understand it, being “open to life” means having intercourse. with ejaculation within the vagina, and if the woman conceives, you just run with it. NFP requires so much calculation and temperature-taking and mucus evaluation and calendar watching, you cannot tell me this is simply “avoiding sex”. It is AVOIDING CONCEPTION. In other words, the agenda is just the same as if the woman were on the pill, except with a far greater risk of conceiving.
The semantics game is tedious. Own up to what you’re engaging in: “frustration of conception”. All that manipulation of bodily information does not equal being “open to life.”
PART ONE
How Do You Use Fertility Awareness?
The first objective within fertility awareness is to become familiar with your menstrual cycle and to begin charting your fertility pattern. The average menstrual cycle is between 28 to 32 days, however there are two parts related to your cycle: before ovulation and after ovulation. Here is a glance at an average cycle to give you a gauge for examining your cycle:
Day 1: The first day of your menstrual flow is the beginning of your cycle.
Day 7: By day seven your egg is preparing to be fertilized by sperm.
Days 11-21: (based on 28-day cycle) Hormones in your body cause the egg to be released from the ovary around this time. This process is known as ovulation. The egg travels through the fallopian tube towards the uterus. If sperm penetrates the egg, the fertilized egg will attach to the lining of the uterus and begin to grow. If fertilization does not happen the egg breaks apart.
Day 28: Hormone levels drop around this day causing the lining of the uterus to be shed making up your menstrual flow.
It is important to realize that the first part of the menstrual cycle (before ovulation) is different in every woman and can even change from month to month. The variation usually occurs from 13 to 20 days long. The last half of the cycle is usually more similar for every women, because there are about 14 days from day of ovulation until the start of the next period. This is why women are encouraged to track their cycles and count back 14 days from their LMP to narrow down their most fertile time of the month.
Calendar tracking method: Your past menstrual cycles will work as a guide for estimating your fertile times. In order to track your menstrual cycle and to identify your expected ovulation follow the step by step process below:
Step 1: Plan on tracking your menstrual cycle for 8 to 12 months.
Step 2: Day 1 will be the first day you start menstruation.
Step 3: Pick the longest and shortest of the cycles from your monthly tracking.
Step 4: The first day of your fertility period is determined by subtracting 18 days from the length of your shortest cycle. If 26 days was your shortest menstrual cycle, take 26 and subtract 18 to come up with the number 8. This means that the first day of your fertility window starts on the 8th day of your cycle.
Step 5: The last fertile day is determined by subtracting 11 from the length of your longest cycle. If 32 days was your longest menstrual cycle, take 32 and subtract 11 to reach the number 21. This means that the last day of your fertility period ends on the 21st day of your cycle.
The time in between these is considered your fertility window. In the above example, your fertility period would be from the 8th day of your cycle to the 21st day of your cycle. Your ovulation is expected during this time frame. You cannot get pregnant everyday during this time, but it is sometime during this time frame that pregnancy can occur.
If you are trying to avoid getting pregnant, you need to abstain from sexual intercourse or use a barrier form of birth control during your fertility window. If you are trying to get pregnant, this fertility period would be the targeted time for sexual intercourse.
SEE PART TWO …
As far as I understand it, being “open to life” means having intercourse. with ejaculation within the vagina, and if the woman conceives, you just run with it. NFP requires so much calculation and temperature-taking and mucus evaluation and calendar watching, you cannot tell me this is simply “avoiding sex”. It is AVOIDING CONCEPTION. In other words, the agenda is just the same as if the woman were on the pill, except with a far greater risk of conceiving.
The semantics game is tedious. Own up to what you’re engaging in: “frustration of conception”. All that manipulation of bodily information does not equal being “open to life.”
PART ONE
How Do You Use Fertility Awareness?
The first objective within fertility awareness is to become familiar with your menstrual cycle and to begin charting your fertility pattern. The average menstrual cycle is between 28 to 32 days, however there are two parts related to your cycle: before ovulation and after ovulation. Here is a glance at an average cycle to give you a gauge for examining your cycle:
Day 1: The first day of your menstrual flow is the beginning of your cycle.
Day 7: By day seven your egg is preparing to be fertilized by sperm.
Days 11-21: (based on 28-day cycle) Hormones in your body cause the egg to be released from the ovary around this time. This process is known as ovulation. The egg travels through the fallopian tube towards the uterus. If sperm penetrates the egg, the fertilized egg will attach to the lining of the uterus and begin to grow. If fertilization does not happen the egg breaks apart.
Day 28: Hormone levels drop around this day causing the lining of the uterus to be shed making up your menstrual flow.
It is important to realize that the first part of the menstrual cycle (before ovulation) is different in every woman and can even change from month to month. The variation usually occurs from 13 to 20 days long. The last half of the cycle is usually more similar for every women, because there are about 14 days from day of ovulation until the start of the next period. This is why women are encouraged to track their cycles and count back 14 days from their LMP to narrow down their most fertile time of the month.
Calendar tracking method: Your past menstrual cycles will work as a guide for estimating your fertile times. In order to track your menstrual cycle and to identify your expected ovulation follow the step by step process below:
Step 1: Plan on tracking your menstrual cycle for 8 to 12 months.
Step 2: Day 1 will be the first day you start menstruation.
Step 3: Pick the longest and shortest of the cycles from your monthly tracking.
Step 4: The first day of your fertility period is determined by subtracting 18 days from the length of your shortest cycle. If 26 days was your shortest menstrual cycle, take 26 and subtract 18 to come up with the number 8. This means that the first day of your fertility window starts on the 8th day of your cycle.
Step 5: The last fertile day is determined by subtracting 11 from the length of your longest cycle. If 32 days was your longest menstrual cycle, take 32 and subtract 11 to reach the number 21. This means that the last day of your fertility period ends on the 21st day of your cycle.
The time in between these is considered your fertility window. In the above example, your fertility period would be from the 8th day of your cycle to the 21st day of your cycle. Your ovulation is expected during this time frame. You cannot get pregnant everyday during this time, but it is sometime during this time frame that pregnancy can occur.
If you are trying to avoid getting pregnant, you need to abstain from sexual intercourse or use a barrier form of birth control during your fertility window. If you are trying to get pregnant, this fertility period would be the targeted time for sexual intercourse.
SEE PART TWO …
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Prodigirl
Guest
PART TWO
Basal body temperature method: Your basal body temperature measures a change in the temperature that occurs after ovulation and remains elevated until your next period. By looking at charting from a few cycles, the temperatures can reveal a pattern from which ovulation can be anticipated. The steps below can help you as you begin to track your temperature and identify when you are ovulating.
Step 1: Take your temperature orally each morning before you become active.
Step 2: Use a basal thermometer which recognizes small changes in your temperature. Your body temperature will only rise between 0.4 and 1 degree farenheit when you ovulate. Buy a Basal Thermometer Now.
Step 3: Record you temperature every day on your fertility tracking calendar.
If you record it every day, you will see that prior to ovulation your temperature is rather consistent. As you get closer to ovulation, you may have a slight decline, but it will be followed by a sharp increase after ovulation. The increase in temperature is the sign that ovulation has just occurred. Because the increase happens after you have ovulated, this method is best used by those who have time to track and study their charts for a couple months, to ensure the best chances of conception. Illness, lack of sleep, and alcohol or drug use can affect your temperature and make it difficult to establish an accurate reading.
Cervical mucus method: The consistency of your cervical mucus changes during the menstrual cycle. In the average cycle, there are 3 to 4 dry days following a 5 day menstrual flow.
The mucus wetness increases daily, lasting approximately 9 days until the wettest day. Your mucus is easily recognized at this point. It should be abundant, slippery, clear, and very stretchy. It has been described as egg whites.
Ovulation occurs when you have your peak day of stretchy mucus (within two days). In order to use the cervical mucus method to identify your ovulation follow the few steps noted below:
Step 1: Collect the mucus from the vaginal opening with your fingers by wiping them from front to back.
Step 2: Record it daily on your fertility calendar by making note of the color (yellow, white, clear or cloudy), the consistency (thick, sticky, or stretchy) and the feel (dry, wet, sticky, slippery, stretchy).
Step 3: Ovulation is recorded on the day that your mucus is clearest, slippery and most stretchy.
Do not douche or use spermicides which increase your risk for infection and may wash away or change the appearance of the mucus.
How Effective Is Fertility Awareness?
When fertility awareness is used correctly and consistently, it may reach effective rates around 90%. The effectiveness depends on your diligence to track and record your fertility pattern and your commitment to abstaining from sexual intercourse or using a barrier form of birth control during your fertility window.
Typical use, which refers to the average use, shows a failure rate of approximately 25%. If you are committed to tracking and recording your fertility information, you can achieve much higher success rates.
Uh huh. All these shenanigans = “open to life”?
Basal body temperature method: Your basal body temperature measures a change in the temperature that occurs after ovulation and remains elevated until your next period. By looking at charting from a few cycles, the temperatures can reveal a pattern from which ovulation can be anticipated. The steps below can help you as you begin to track your temperature and identify when you are ovulating.
Step 1: Take your temperature orally each morning before you become active.
Step 2: Use a basal thermometer which recognizes small changes in your temperature. Your body temperature will only rise between 0.4 and 1 degree farenheit when you ovulate. Buy a Basal Thermometer Now.
Step 3: Record you temperature every day on your fertility tracking calendar.
If you record it every day, you will see that prior to ovulation your temperature is rather consistent. As you get closer to ovulation, you may have a slight decline, but it will be followed by a sharp increase after ovulation. The increase in temperature is the sign that ovulation has just occurred. Because the increase happens after you have ovulated, this method is best used by those who have time to track and study their charts for a couple months, to ensure the best chances of conception. Illness, lack of sleep, and alcohol or drug use can affect your temperature and make it difficult to establish an accurate reading.
Cervical mucus method: The consistency of your cervical mucus changes during the menstrual cycle. In the average cycle, there are 3 to 4 dry days following a 5 day menstrual flow.
The mucus wetness increases daily, lasting approximately 9 days until the wettest day. Your mucus is easily recognized at this point. It should be abundant, slippery, clear, and very stretchy. It has been described as egg whites.
Ovulation occurs when you have your peak day of stretchy mucus (within two days). In order to use the cervical mucus method to identify your ovulation follow the few steps noted below:
Step 1: Collect the mucus from the vaginal opening with your fingers by wiping them from front to back.
Step 2: Record it daily on your fertility calendar by making note of the color (yellow, white, clear or cloudy), the consistency (thick, sticky, or stretchy) and the feel (dry, wet, sticky, slippery, stretchy).
Step 3: Ovulation is recorded on the day that your mucus is clearest, slippery and most stretchy.
Do not douche or use spermicides which increase your risk for infection and may wash away or change the appearance of the mucus.
How Effective Is Fertility Awareness?
When fertility awareness is used correctly and consistently, it may reach effective rates around 90%. The effectiveness depends on your diligence to track and record your fertility pattern and your commitment to abstaining from sexual intercourse or using a barrier form of birth control during your fertility window.
Typical use, which refers to the average use, shows a failure rate of approximately 25%. If you are committed to tracking and recording your fertility information, you can achieve much higher success rates.
Uh huh. All these shenanigans = “open to life”?
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
Couples who use NFP usually have at least 2-3 more children, in my experience, than couples who use artificial birth control.
Open to life? Yup.
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Prodigirl
Guest
It’s unfortunate that the 241 steps for avoiding conception with NFP had not been published way back then. Or, this phrase comes to mind: “yer doin’ it wrong.”
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underacloud
Guest
Yes. The intention is the same. The means to acheive this are what Humanae Vitae discusses. If you haven’t read it, you should. If you have but don’t understand it, perhaps you too should meet with a priest to discuss.
“Semantics” are only tedious to those who fail to understand the differences that actually exist. For example, again you have used the word “manipulation” improperly.
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Prodigirl
Guest
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underacloud
Guest
No, I get that. You’ve left the Church and now have a axe to grind. You don’t seem at all interested in understanding how the average Catholic interprets teaching.
You claim to be interested in “how the average Catholic interprets Church dogma”, and then accuse average Catholics like myself of cynical smoke screens when we try to explain our positions. I’m sorry to say but I see no genuine attempt at understanding or holding a conversation on your part .
How does one control or influence in the case of NFP? One merely observes their own body.
Contraception effects control or influence. NFP does not. Again, these are not mere semantics. These are real differences. “manipulation” is a completely inapporpriate word to apply to NFP.
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Prodigirl
Guest
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underacloud
Guest
If you wish to chat with people - in real life or on forums - do not accuse them of “mendacious employment of a cynical smoke screen”. If you have no axe to grind I apologise of accusing as such. However, your manners make polite discourse impossible.
As for you wishing to understand the Catholic take on NFP - read Humanae Vitae. How can one intelligently argue against a particular position they don’t actually know? Read it, and then post a new thread to understand the average Catholic’s take on it. I’m sure you’ll find plenty of interested posters and lively debate. At present, this topic has hijacked this thread and should be set aside.
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underacloud
Guest
Actually, never mind my apology regarding whether or not you have an axe to grind. I’ve reveiwed your first post into this thread…
This is not the post of someone genuinely interested in understdaning the average Catholic’s take on teaching (or even the teaching itself). You begin with the position that the Church is duplicitous. You asked for a fight, not a chat. But, it’s still a fight that deserves a new thread, and then you can choose whether you want to set that thread up as a chat or fight.
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Prodigirl
Guest
******If the impression that I get leads me to believe that a criticism is being dismissed or a point of doctrine is being defended because VATICAN/MAGISTERIUM/DOGMA, I will say that I am unsatisfied with the explanation.
Let’s all jump ship. It’s a bust.**
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Rau
Guest
Couples are free to make decisions about the timing and spacing of children they conceive. NFP is used to maximise, or to minimise the probability of conception, in order that couples can give effect, by licit means, to the decisions that they make about number of children they conceive and their spacing. Couples are under no obligation to have sex at particular times of the month, or uniformly during the month. There is nothing wrong with having a view that for the next X months, we wish to avoid conception because .
The Church teaching that sex be “pro-creative” means no more than that the act is not to be distorted, or “messed with”. It is not an obligation to have sex at particular times, or not to avoid particular times, or to always roll the dice.
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Prodigirl
Guest
“The Church teaching that sex be “pro-creative” means no more than that the act is not to be distorted, or “messed with”. It is not an obligation to have sex at particular times, or not to avoid particular times, or to always roll the dice.”
**I understand this. I understood this … except:
As far as I’m concerned, having had 35 years of sexual activity during fertile reproductive years, using a diaphragm to keep sperm and egg from hooking up is no more “illicit” than “messing with” one’s fertility with a calendar and a basal thermometer and an analysis of cervical mucus.
We simply have a difference of opinion.**
**I understand this. I understood this … except:
As far as I’m concerned, having had 35 years of sexual activity during fertile reproductive years, using a diaphragm to keep sperm and egg from hooking up is no more “illicit” than “messing with” one’s fertility with a calendar and a basal thermometer and an analysis of cervical mucus.
We simply have a difference of opinion.**
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Rau
Guest
During my engagement, my wife and I did not have sex. By this, natural, means we avoided conception (I suppose
). Would you say we practiced contraception? IOne performs an “end-run” on the fertility cycle when one takes a pill, wears a condom, or employs a similar means. Because those acts truly defeat the natural consequences of the act. Having sex during the infertile time is not an “end-run” of the fertility cycle - it’s recognising its realities and in-built features.
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Rau
Guest
I won’t argue with you over what is or is not illicit. But on the facts, a diaphragm messes with the act, and avoiding the act does not.
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inocente
Guest
If you guys spent half as much energy discussing the gospel as you do on the mechanics of sex then the world might be a better place. 
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
“Way back then”? You mean, when my wife and I were having kids? I’m 35. Our most recent child is 1 and a half. Not exactly ancient history.
You missed my point. My wife and I knew that she might be fertile when we had sex, and we didn’t want another kid yet. But in order to avoid, we had to do something that was difficult – not make love for 7 or 8 straight days, despite it being the time of month where a woman is most amorous.
Now, any given day on which we didn’t have sex was not a day of “avoiding”. No Catholic is ever compelled to have sex on a given day. And our purpose in charting was to inform our decisions – when we do decide to make love on a fertile day, that is (honestly) a turn-on, because what we’re doing is that much more powerful. It’s very hard for me to believe that my wife and I are contracepting. Our house is full of children.
You think it’s a distinction without a difference, but my some of my children wouldn’t be alive if we had been using the Pill to avoid. That’s a difference.
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
Same to you, bucko.If you guys spent half as much energy discussing the gospel as you do on the mechanics of sex then the world might be a better place.
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Jaaanosik
Guest
Please, tell me where you see that in CC because it does not appear to me its in the quotes provided by me.
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