Sexual Denial, and Sin

[Salonika]

I am obviously not happy about the situation, but because of my marriage vows, I have very little choice. I made my choice on the marriage altar, some twenty years ago, so I have to live with it.

You made a choice to go into marriage twenty years - you expected it to be a normal marriage where both parties cared about each other and treated the other with respect. You expected that both parties would bring up any children in a healthy way in a healthy environment. You probably expected the occasional tiff or fight but not years of abuse.

The normal marriage you expected has not happened and from what you have said it is unlikely to change unless your wife changes radically.

Please, for the sake of your health and that of your children, talk about your situation with a priest (one you like and respect or one you know is knowledgeable about this area) who can tell you more about your options - separation, annullment etc. You have been battered for too long and your children have grown up in an unhealthy home for too long. YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN ARE TOO IMPORTANT FOR YOU NOT TO DO THIS.

Also if there is any aspect of “I deserve this for standing up to my wife” for not acting please forget it. You do not deserve this treatment. No one does.

Maybe also have a think about what advice you would give someone else in your situation. If it’s different, why?

 

[one4niner]

This is what I would do: One night when you’re getting ready for bed, I would go right into that bed and say goodnight. If she argues, defend yourself and say “No! This is my bed and i’m tired of sleeping elsewhere. You are my wife and I still love you. If you don’t like it, you can go.” Maybe she is tired of having a push over for a husband. Stand up for yourself and maybe it will spark up a fire in her. My belief is that a bed in a marriage is like a santuary for the two. Once the day is over, whether good or bad, come back to each other in the bed and get ready for another day!!

 

[Galnextdoor]

I have long suspected my wife is truly a lesbian, or bisexual. This is not just suspicion or paranoia on my part. I found a piece of evidence, about 10 years ago, that was pretty incontrovertible. She was keeping a book, on how to keep a long-term lesbian relationship secret. I found it hidden among her effects. It was in a place that I would never ever look - I was searching for some of my children’s school records, when I found it. **Why would someone have such a book, if they did not need it? **

Here is something to think about. My brother-in-law was married in the church before he married my sister. His first wife refused to have sex with him during the last seven years of their marriage. She eventually left him for another woman. His marriage only took 8 months to get annulled. It usually takes 12 to 18 months to get an annulment in our diocese.

Being a lesbian would fit with many things you described. If you think it’s so, then your children have probably come to the same conclusion. This is not a good thing to expose your children to.

I’ll continue to keep you and your family in my prayers.

 

[BamaRider]

Soulrebel said-

The Catholic Ideal is More sex is worse sex, and less sex is best sex. This protects against the abuse of each other, and keeps the dignity of both husband and wife protected.

Dang, now I come on here and find out I’m being abused?? I can had but I can’t but bought!

If you don’t think Catholics don’t like to tawk about sex just spend a couple days on CAF. Shoot, thats ALL we tawk about.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I have long suspected my wife is truly a lesbian, or bisexual. This is not just suspicion or paranoia on my part. I found a piece of evidence, about 10 years ago, that was pretty incontrovertible. She was keeping a book, on how to keep a long-term lesbian relationship secret. I found it hidden among her effects. It was in a place that I would never ever look - I was searching for some of my children’s school records, when I found it. **Why would someone have such a book, if they did not need it? **

My wife works in a business where she routinely is only around women. And she has several long-term friends, all women, with whom she spends a lot of time. She sometimes goes on vacations with these women, without me. I am typically not invited, and in fact, she sometimes doesn’t even tell me about them in advance. And whenever she speaks with these other women on the phone, a glow comes across her face - as if she is speaking to a lover.

I would bet any amount of money that my wife has been having a lesbian affair behind my back. Again, this is just one more thing I have to put up with - one more cross that I have to bear. But this explains her lack of affection, sexual interest, etc.

Quite honestly, I would go insane thinking about these things. Like one of a thousand indignities, I just let this slide. I have never confronted her about this, just like I have never raised the issues of her reckless spending, falling out with the Church, etc. Whenever I try to have a substantive conversation with my wife, she threatens to divorce me.

I have forgiven my wife for whatever she has done in the past, or continues to do. That is the way Christ has taught us. I am obviously not happy about the situation, but because of my marriage vows, I have very little choice. I made my choice on the marriage altar, some twenty years ago, so I have to live with it.

Don’t torture yourself with thoughts of what could be happening, but don’t deny the terrible reality of what you are living with.

You are not pathetic and you do not deserve this. No lay person can or should definitvely tell a person they have grounds for an annulment, but if I were a betting woman I would bet that you have an excellent case.

I am glad you are attending counseling, but if your suspicions are true then it is unlikely she will want to confront the enormity of her condition and truly want to work on the marriage. She has already destroyed your marriage with her behavior, and forced you to live a lie.

Don’t allow her to continue to make you keep her secrets. You are not responsible for her sexual problems, and the Bible clearly states wives have an obligation to their husbands in this manner.

 

[SoulRebel777]

Ladies…When I Say need, Im saying need in the sense that another person becomes your all and be all, your God in replace of the true God. . Women despise a man that has an almost desperate need for her is my point .

 

[fellowChristian]

Ladies…When I Say need, Im saying need in the sense that another person becomes your all and be all, your God in replace of the true God. . Women despise a man that has an almost desperate need for her is my point .

No. Not true. I love when my husband is in desperate need of me You can’t just say that about all women. You don’t know what all women think or feel.

Also to the Op. Stop letting her have her way. Just stop it. Take back your bed, your house and your dignity. Unless your afraid of her?

I think if one person starts calling it quits they should be the one to make the changes instead of forcing the changes on the other person. If she doesn’t want to have sex thats one thing but not letting you in your bed??? You just give in? Why?

Do you think its love? Letting her treat you this way? This is not love. This is not a marriage.

Reroute your checks to a new account. And for crying out loud when she threatens you with divorce tell her to just do it already. Aren’t you tired of her hanging that over your head?Call her bluff.She might stop saying it.

How long has this been going on? 5,10,20 years already? Do you see any changes happening? Do you believe everything she says?

 

[SoulRebel777]

““No. Not true. I love when my husband is in desperate need of me You can’t just say that about all women. You don’t know what all women think or feel.””

If this is so its because you love a certain power and control of your husband.I dont think you really respect him when he’s desperate. And this is exactly what the Holy Bible and The Church is against. The man should be the Head of the Home.

 

[mrpathetic]

How long has this been going on? 5,10,20 years already? Do you see any changes happening? Do you believe everything she says?

I would say that this has been going on about twelve years. It is about that long that she has been threatening me with divorce. We have gone without sexual relations for 15 years. I have not slept in my own bedroom for over 10 years.

But really, for the whole of our marriage, she has treated me like a child - more specifically, a young child, who has to be told what to do. And she has had nearly complete sway in every decision and life choice we have made.

But I am using the techniques from the “Boundaries” book, and they are having effects. Predictably, my wife is resisting the boundary-setting approach. She is used to having complete control, and now I am using the boundaries method to take some of it back. At a minimum, I would like a boundary to my wife’s exploitation of me, and her humiliating abuse - especially when it takes places in front of our children.

Whenever I attempt to set a boundary, she launches into an obscenity-laced tirade. The last one came last night. I can’t repeat the words that were said, in this forum - there are children who read this. (My daughter was present last night, for the latest tirade.)

I am going to employ this method, and see what happens. As it says in the book, some people cannot live within boundaries - but that is the other person’s problem. I can live in my own boundaries, and I can set boundaries for my spouse, and for everyone else in my life.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Whenever I attempt to set a boundary, she launches into an obscenity-laced tirade. The last one came last night. I can’t repeat the words that were said, in this forum - there are children who read this. (My daughter was present last night, for the latest tirade.)

I am going to employ this method, and see what happens. As it says in the book, some people cannot live within boundaries - but that is the other person’s problem. I can live in my own boundaries, and I can set boundaries for my spouse, and for everyone else in my life.

I hope you recognize this as entirely unacceptable, abusive, and a window into the darkness of your wife’s heart.

Please do not delude yourself into continuing to live with this if your techniques do not effect a total transformation of your wife. You, as a Catholic, do not have to accept abuse from your spouse. God does not change every heart. You are called to peace and a godly separation if you are being abused.

 

[KingAlfred]

I and my wife have been married for 14 for years. For nearly all this period of time, my wife has denied me sexual relations. After our two children were conceived, she decided she was finished having relations with me. She threw me out of the bedroom, and ever since then, I sleep in a guest bedroom in our home.

I have asked for help about this situtation in other forums, and other locations. Other people believe that I am insane, for living with this situation, for all this time (going on nearly 2 decades now.) The sexual frustration that I have had to endure is almost unbearable.

I know the church canons against other forms of sexuality (adultery, masturbation, etc.), and I have lived by them. I have tried my best to be a good, supportive, caring husband to my wife, but nothing seems to change. I also know the church canons against divorce and remarriage, so I know that this approach is not the way out.

But the sexual frustration is becoming almost unbearable. I really don’t know how much more I can take. It is starting to make me angry, bitter, frustrated, and dissolusioned. It is taking its toll on my performance at work, and also my ministerial work as well. I have tried to hold on through prayer, meditation, and other techniques, but I am finding it increasingly difficult to cope.

Let me ask this question to the folks in the forum:

1. Is this situation normal? Is this a common problem within Catholic marriage? Sometimes I feel like a freak for having lived like this, for so long. Are other people coping with similar circumstances? How do you do it? Does it require the same approach as chastity within the religious vocations (priesthood, the religious life?)
2. Is this situation sinful? It seems to violate some of the teachings in 1 Corinthians 7. “Do not deprive each other, except by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you.” Is my wife sinful for denying me? Amd I sinful for wanting her to have relations with me, if she clearly does not want it, should I just give up asking for sex, and consign myself to complete chastity, to the end of my life?

Is this what God intends me to suffer through? Is this the cross I am supposed to bear?

I hope some of you have decent advice. Thank you.

Hang in there. Often sex is one of the first casualties of marriage. That’s a very sad fact.

 

[Salonika]

Originally Posted by mrpathetic:

Whenever I attempt to set a boundary, she launches into an obscenity-laced tirade. The last one came last night… (My daughter was present last night, for the latest tirade.)

Reply by Angels Unaware
I hope you recognize this as entirely unacceptable, abusive, and a window into the darkness of your wife’s heart.

Please do not delude yourself into continuing to live with this if your techniques do not effect a total transformation of your wife. You, as a Catholic, do not have to accept abuse from your spouse. God does not change every heart. You are called to peace and a godly separation if you are being abused.

Totally agree with Angels Unaware.

Also please keep in mind both the continuing effect of the behaviour of your wife (and their mother) on both your son and daughter and their views on relationships and, in particular, on marriage.

mrpathetic:

At a minimum, I would like a boundary to my wife’s exploitation of me, and her humiliating abuse - especially when it takes places in front of our children. .

Pleased to see you are seeking this as a first step not the final goal. EVERYONE has a right to live in a safe environment at home and at work. We don’t have to earn it, we have a right to it.

When we have been abused for a long time, especially by someone close to us, it is easy to lose this perspective and think we must earn/re-earn it. Also we can become so pleased about small improvements that we forget that the overall situation is still abusive.

Think I should only post to this thread in future if new points come up as there is a point where repeating advice/suggestions can become abusive and counterproductive. I want to be only helpful and not add to the abuse you live with daily.

 

[Allen537]

Dear OP,

I am truly saddened by your situation, and you may be sure of my prayers for you.

While I pray that your marriage is able to be salvaged, I think with the likely possibility that your wife is a lesbian, and the fact that your wife has denied you her marital duty as a wife as long as she has, I am inclined to think that it is time to move on. You are in a very unhealthy situation, both psychologically and spiritually.

From the information you have given, I would say that there are several grounds upon which you could have your marriage annulled. I would ask that you seriously consider and pray about this as a possibility.

Also, I am concerned about the coping that you have done and continue to do. If you choose only to cope with this situation, and not try to bring about some real transformation, then you are only impeding your growth as a human person, and as a follower of Christ.

Please do not feel bad that you have somehow failed in your marital duty to get your wife to heaven. As the old saying goes “you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink”. You can give your wife every possibility to change her ways and give her encouragement, but she ultimately has to make that decision for herself. It seems to me that you have done all that is humanly possible. It also seems that your wife has made her decision.

May Mary, Our Mother of Carmel, bless and keep you during this, your hour of need.

Br. Allen

 

[fellowChristian]

““No. Not true. I love when my husband is in desperate need of me You can’t just say that about all women. You don’t know what all women think or feel.””

If this is so its because you love a certain power and control of your husband.I dont think you really respect him when he’s desperate. And this is exactly what the Holy Bible and The Church is against. The man should be the Head of the Home.

SoulRebel777-- you are clueless

Desperate as in “urgent need”. So it’s like if I said I love when my husband is in “urgent need” of me I was talking about I love when my husband wants me,sexually. I respect my husband very much. And yes my husband is the head of our home and I am the heart.

 

[GhostMan]

I think a greater question you need to ask yourself is who are you helping in your quest to be obedient to the teachings of the Catholic Church on marriage. While you may see a cross to bear, one that may allow God to mold you into a more humble and penitent man, there are other people involved: your children.

You run a danger of creating a cycle that they repeat, and their children. They have no positive role model for a husband or father. your use of suffering to mold your spirit - if it is doing that - serves only you. They are left with a legacy that they will probably inherit.

If you were childless, then I would congratulate you on your ability to bear abuse in humbleness. You are not, however. Your children must have a model of a husband and father that they can use as a pattern in their own lives. Do you want your daughter to believe that she must treat her husband as your wife treats you? If you have a son, do you want his life to be like yours? Much like a woman must remove her children from the home of an abusive man to keep them from believing it is the only way to be a man, so you must consider your children.

Much like you, my title reflects my own view of who I am. I am lifeless and dead inside and too have a wife that does not respect me, but for the sake of my children (all 10), I put up a facade and act as a man should. I do not allow myself to be treated poorly, nor will I wallow in self-pity. Not for my sake, but for my children.

My wife is nothing like yours. She’s not abusive in any way, so I would not consider leaving her. Still, I would lie if I told you that I did not regret that all passion and emotion is gone and we are as friends and not as we were.

Your children must not see you as you see yourself. If only for their sakes, man-up. Do not become abusive or angry, just assertive about tolerating that type of behavior projected at you. Talk to your children about how men and women should treat each other. Point out examples of other couples showing respect to each other.

In less than ten years, they will be off on their own. Your time is short. I am not even going to try and give you advice on how to make your own situation better, but I will admonish you to do your duty as a father and teach your children well. Otherwise, you may be the beginning of a generational cycle that will become your legacy.

 

[mrpathetic]

Thank you, Ghostman. It is very good to know that there are those who are experiencing the same struggles that I am, and can emphathize with my predicament.

In a sense, the generational cycle has already started. I have lived my entire life in the reverse role of my father. I have, both consciously and unconsciously, tried to be the exact reverse of my father. He was an alcoholic, deserter, and all-around reprobate. He had several drunken driving incidents, and spent time in jail. He eventually committed suicide by putting a .22-caliber pistol to his head, and pulling the trigger. Altogether, he was a terrible person, and to absolutely honest, I despise him, to this very day, even though he has been dead for 22 years. And I promised myself, when I married, that I would not become my father.

So to become the “anti-father”, I have become the opposite extreme - selfless, weak, passive, ineffectual, and emasculated. I felt, both consciously and unconsciously, that if I was the opposite of my father, I could avoid his problems. I realize now that I was terribly wrong. I created a whole host of new problems, for myself and my family. My entire family - wife and children - lack respect from me, and take me for granted.

So the honus is on me to fix the problem. And yes, I need to do this for myself and my family - I owe it to all of us. I certainly do not want my son to repeat my mistakes, or my father’s.

Ghostman, I strongly recommend that you start on the path I am travelling. I am reading both the “Boundaries” book, by Cloud and Townsend, and “No More Mr. Nice Guy”, by Glover. I am using both books as guidance. I think that both could help you, as they are helping me.

 

[Ruthie]

I’m not sure that this has a bearing on your situations, Mr P and Ghostman, but I’m being inspired to tell it. Hopefully, it will help someone.

My father left when I was still in diapers. The men I was raised around were homosexual. Good men, but not “father figures.” My mother did a pretty good job of raising me, but was also dependent on me in a sick way.

My science teacher in high school was a “proxy daddy.” He was very masculine, very intelligent, and very kind.

I wanted a man, a “real man,” in my life. I am very strong willed; there have been those who have called me hard-headed and stubborn, imagine that! I’ve always been attracted to strong men; I’d take Arnie over Alan Alda any time.

Wimpy guys found me very attractive, but made me feel like an oak being consumed by mistletoe. After life with my Mom, the last thing I wanted was someone who wanted to lean on me, to use my strength to hold them up.

I went through some abusive relationships because I mistook the abusiveness for what I was really looking for - a strong-willed man. I seemed to outmatch most of the men I knew in both intelligence and will. Also, I kept running into men who were impressed with my traditionally male career, but wanted to sort of “conquer” me sexually.

I am now happily married to a man who is at least as strong-willed as me. He is also very masculine, intelligent, and kind. No, he’s not at all like my science teacher except in those things.

There it is, for what it’s worth. I don’t know why I’m telling you this, but God does.

God bless you both,

Ruthie

 

[SoulRebel777]

SoulRebel777-- you are clueless

Desperate as in “urgent need”. So it’s like if I said I love when my husband is in “urgent need” of me I was talking about I love when my husband wants me,sexually. I respect my husband very much. And yes my husband is the head of our home and I am the heart

Ok , I dont see why you have to stoop to calling me names but I pray still that God will Bless you regardless.

 

[Galnextdoor]

There it is, for what it’s worth. I don’t know why I’m telling you this, but God does.

God bless you both,

Ruthie

It sounds like their is no repetitious cycle in your relationship. It also sounds like the man who stood up for himself got the girl.

 

[mrpathetic]

I wanted a man, a “real man,” in my life. I am very strong willed; there have been those who have called me hard-headed and stubborn, imagine that! I’ve always been attracted to strong men; I’d take Arnie over Alan Alda any time.

Wimpy guys found me very attractive, but made me feel like an oak being consumed by mistletoe. After life with my Mom, the last thing I wanted was someone who wanted to lean on me, to use my strength to hold them up.

I am now happily married to a man who is at least as strong-willed as me. He is also very masculine, intelligent, and kind. No, he’s not at all like my science teacher except in those things.

Makes perfect sense to me. Sounds to me like you were looking for the same thing my wife was - a real man. Instead, she got me. My wife settled for the “mistletoe”, to use your analogy. Now she is totally dissatisfied with me - which probably explained why she fell into the arms of another person. (Well, in her case, another woman…)

The “No More Mr. Nice Guys” book explains the situation perfectly. Men today are trying to please women, rather trying to be real men. The author, Dr. Glover, explains why this is true - the reasons are too long to elicit them her. The net result is that men are very passive and weak, and cannot satisfy their women. This explains much of the problems with unhappy marriages, divorce, adultery, etc.

So this book is an invaluable tool, for those of us in my circumstance - weak men, with domineering wives, and extremely unhappy marriages. It may be the only way for men like me to save our marriage - and our self-respect. But a warning in advance - it is not written from a Christian perspective. Some parts of it may be offensive, so be prepared for that, if you do pick it up.