Sexual Denial, and Sin

[CSUNGerrie]

I wanted to share with you the ending the the book Orthodoxy which I referenced in my last post. It regards an interesting detail, why dont we ever hear of Jesus laughing. I hope you are blessed by it.

Joy, which was the small publicity of the pagan, is the gigantic secret of the Christian. And as I close this chaotic volume I open again the strange small book from which all Christianity came; and I am again haunted by a kind of confirmation. The tremendous figure which fills the Gospels towers in this respect, as in every other, above all the thinkers who ever thought themselves tall. His pathos was natural, almost casual. The Stoics, ancient and modern, were proud of concealing their tears. He never concealed His tears; He showed them plainly on His open face at any daily sight, such as the far sight of His native city. Yet He concealed something. Solemn supermen and imperial diplomatists are proud of restraining their anger. He never restrained His anger. He flung furniture down the front steps of the Temple, and asked men how they expected to escape the damnation of Hell. Yet He restrained something. I say it with reverence; there was in that shattering personality a thread that must be called shyness. There was something that He hid from all men when He went up a mountain to pray. There was something that He covered constantly by abrupt silence or impetuous isolation. There was some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth; and I have sometimes fancied that it was His mirth.

 

[ChristinaM]

I still strongly feel that my children are better off with both of their parents. I came from a single parent home, and I swore that I would never put my children through that. Ever. It didn’t matter what I had to sacrifice - even my own dignity.

But do your children agree with you?

Maybe I’m oversimplifying things, but I wouldn’t advise a woman whose husband was beating her black and blue to stay with that man so that her children could grow up with two parents. Abuse is abuse. Sacrifice yourself if that’s what God is calling you to do - but I beg you, don’t put a yoke on your children’s shoulders against their will.

I’m sorry if my response seems lacking in compassion but I feel great pity for your children as well as you. I will keep you in my prayers.

 

[mrpathetic]

But isnt sacrifice, self denial, chastity, and obedience themselves joy? Or atleast they should be. Joy, unlike happiness, is not attached to good times or things that will pass. Joy transcends, joy lives even when one is in the pits.

GOD BLESS YOU

My fundamental problem is that I am incapable of feeling positive emotions. I feel no joy, but also very little happiness, even at times when I should.

I have battled chronic anxiety and depression for all of my adult life. I have spent thousands of dollars on visits to counselors, psychologists and psychiatrists. I have taken pounds of antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds, over the past twenty five years.

My current psychiatrist tells me that my seratonin levels have essentially “flat-lined”, and I will likely be on SSRI therapy for years to come. I can continue to function in society, and support my family - but that is perhaps the best I can hope for.

Yes, I have sought the help of the Church, through my pastor and deacon. Their words help, but the depression and anxiety always seem to return.

And yes, I have prayed for this illness to be taken from me. The prayers haven’t been answered. I have accepted, long ago, that this is a lifetime burden, and I must bear it, as best as I can. The Lord gives us each crosses to bear, and this is what He has given me.

(I am grateful for it, for I know there are alternatives that could be much worse - such as commitment to a mental hospital. Yes, the Lord could have given me a tougher burden - and for that I am grateful. Perhaps that gives me some sense of satisfaction, which is perhaps the best emotion I can squeeze out. I offer that to the Lord.)

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I’m sorry, my friend. I know how I am supposed to feel. But I am incapable of feeling that way. I have read Chesterton, and other writers, and I understand cognitively what they are trying to explain. But no matter how hard I try, I cannot change how I feel.

Inside, I am emotionally dead. I can live the life of a Christian, but ultimately, I feel nothing.

I thank you all, for your prayers, and support. May the Lord bless and keep you.

 

[DavidChrist]

I and my wife have been married for 14 for years. For nearly all this period of time, my wife has denied me sexual relations. After our two children were conceived, she decided she was finished having relations with me. She threw me out of the bedroom, and ever since then, I sleep in a guest bedroom in our home.

I have asked for help about this situtation in other forums, and other locations. Other people believe that I am insane, for living with this situation, for all this time (going on nearly 2 decades now.) The sexual frustration that I have had to endure is almost unbearable.

I know the church canons against other forms of sexuality (adultery, masturbation, etc.), and I have lived by them. I have tried my best to be a good, supportive, caring husband to my wife, but nothing seems to change. I also know the church canons against divorce and remarriage, so I know that this approach is not the way out.

But the sexual frustration is becoming almost unbearable. I really don’t know how much more I can take. It is starting to make me angry, bitter, frustrated, and dissolusioned. It is taking its toll on my performance at work, and also my ministerial work as well. I have tried to hold on through prayer, meditation, and other techniques, but I am finding it increasingly difficult to cope.

Let me ask this question to the folks in the forum:

1. Is this situation normal? Is this a common problem within Catholic marriage? Sometimes I feel like a freak for having lived like this, for so long. Are other people coping with similar circumstances? How do you do it? Does it require the same approach as chastity within the religious vocations (priesthood, the religious life?)
2. Is this situation sinful? It seems to violate some of the teachings in 1 Corinthians 7. “Do not deprive each other, except by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you.” Is my wife sinful for denying me? Amd I sinful for wanting her to have relations with me, if she clearly does not want it, should I just give up asking for sex, and consign myself to complete chastity, to the end of my life?

Is this what God intends me to suffer through? Is this the cross I am supposed to bear?

I hope some of you have decent advice. Thank you.

You have to threaten your wife.

You have to use available power that you are truly willing to go through.

I’m not talking about a blunt object. I’m talking about threatening her with DIVORCE papers. Either she gives you sex or you file for divorce.

If she doesn’t believe you, have her e-mail me and I will tell her.

 

[joseph123]

My fundamental problem is that I am incapable of feeling positive emotions. I feel no joy, but also very little happiness, even at times when I should.

I have battled chronic anxiety and depression for all of my adult life. I have spent thousands of dollars on visits to counselors, psychologists and psychiatrists. I have taken pounds of antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds, over the past twenty five years.

My current psychiatrist tells me that my seratonin levels have essentially “flat-lined”, and I will likely be on SSRI therapy for years to come. I can continue to function in society, and support my family - but that is perhaps the best I can hope for.

Yes, I have sought the help of the Church, through my pastor and deacon. Their words help, but the depression and anxiety always seem to return.

And yes, I have prayed for this illness to be taken from me. The prayers haven’t been answered. I have accepted, long ago, that this is a lifetime burden, and I must bear it, as best as I can. The Lord gives us each crosses to bear, and this is what He has given me.

(I am grateful for it, for I know there are alternatives that could be much worse - such as commitment to a mental hospital. Yes, the Lord could have given me a tougher burden - and for that I am grateful. Perhaps that gives me some sense of satisfaction, which is perhaps the best emotion I can squeeze out. I offer that to the Lord.)

======================================================

I’m sorry, my friend. I know how I am supposed to feel. But I am incapable of feeling that way. I have read Chesterton, and other writers, and I understand cognitively what they are trying to explain. But no matter how hard I try, I cannot change how I feel.

Inside, I am emotionally dead. I can live the life of a Christian, but ultimately, I feel nothing.

I thank you all, for your prayers, and support. May the Lord bless and keep you.

What you are going through isn’t normal at all. You are in an extremely abusive relationship and I pray you find the strength to leave.

 

[Galnextdoor]

Have you ever thought that part of your anxiety and depression might stem from living with a woman who treats you like a doormat?

 

[mrpathetic]

What you are going through isn’t normal at all. You are in an extremely abusive relationship and I pray you find the strength to leave.

I appreciate the sentiments. But I pray that I can find the strength to stay, instead of leaving.

My relationship is not “normal”, but it is still ordained by God. And I am bound by my vows to God to stay. And I pray for the same strength, to remain in full continence.

 

[mrpathetic]

Have you ever thought that part of your anxiety and depression might stem from living with a woman who treats you like a doormat?

My battles with depression and anxiety actually pre-date my relationship with my wife. So she is not the culprit behind this.

But I admit that my relationship with my wife may be exascerbating my depression. In fact, it almost certainly is. It is depressing to think that I am married to a person who will never let me have sex with her, ever again, and I am stuck in this situation, for life.

Essentially, there is no hope in my marriage relationship. The very best that I can hope for, is to maintain the status quo, and keep my marriage intact.

I have no illusions that, if I left my wife today, my mental and emotional problems could get better. In fact, they could get worse. I would probably find divorced life to be shameful and humiliating. This would only serve to make me more depressed.

 

[joseph123]

I appreciate the sentiments. But I pray that I can find the strength to stay, instead of leaving.

My relationship is not “normal”, but it is still ordained by God. And I am bound by my vows to God to stay. And I pray for the same strength, to remain in full continence.

I am sorry that you have found yourself in those circumstances, certainly staying in the marriage is much beyond what you are required to do by your vows. Nobody is required to stay in an abusive relationship and what your wife is doing is abuse, plain and simple. I would much prefer my wife started hitting me or poisoning my coffee a little each morning. With that kind of abuse at least I would know how to deal with it and wouldn’t be left feeling so confused and rejected. I’ll say a prayer to St. Monica the patron saint of abuse victims and difficult marriages for you at mass today.

 

[FK04US]

Dude,

I apologize in advance for what I am going to say but I do it from the bottom of my heart and hope that you start living the life that God intended for you. Sorry to say this, but you are leaving a lie. You say that you want to rescue or preserve your marriage. Dude, YOU HAVE NO MARRIAGE. Your life is not what God commanded us to do, and you are actually not being a good example of how a good Catholic, Christ loving man ought to live his life.

I would not be surprised if your children, especially your son, decide to leave the Catholic Church because of your bad example as a father and man; and I am not saying husband, because you do not have a wife, and with no wife, there is no husband. And if your children leave the faith because of you, you will have to answer to God.

There is nothing to rescue in your relationship. Based on what I have read in the thread, your union is not a valid one, you are not married at all, and there is no vow to keep. Remember, the sacrament of marriage requires **two **people freely consenting to it and knowing to what the sacrament entails. In this case there was only **one **person doing this (you); therefore you do not have a marriage. What you have is children, and you are setting a horrible example of Catholic life to them. And that is a sin.

Please re-consider your decision, open your eyes, and start living. Get out of your cave.

Praying for you and your children,

 

[orignal]

You are not weak and pathetic at all. You seem like a kind, caring man with a great set of values (something that is hard to find these days). You should not have to endure being treated this way! It is so common for people who are mistreated by their partner to start believing all the outrageous things their partner says to them. Through my line of work I see many, many domestic violence victims and even if your wife if never physically abusive, the way you feel about yourself is an exact mirror of what I see in DV victims. They become so manipulated. Their partners seem to have this insane mental stronghold on them. You are SO much better than she tells you you are. Do NOT believe it if she says you are weak or pathetic.

I agree with this. Domestic Violence does NOT have to be physical in nature, it takes many forms. In fact, the signs of DV - weather physical abuse, emotional abuse, financial abuse, social abuse, ect. usually involve possessive/controlling actions from the abuser upon the victim. Just because you are a man, does NOT mean you cannot be a victim of DV. It is believed that the % of men abused in DV is much smaller, as most men feel ashamed to admit abuse by their wife or girlfriend.
I too, would not look at divorce as the answer at this point, exhaust some options you have not tried before. Solid Catholic consoling is a great start. I would also recommend a good spiritual retreat or even better a men’s conference. It sounds like you are in a rural area, but the fruit of one of these events could mean changes/advice that will positively help you for the rest of your life. Steve Wood has a website called faith and family and also posts annual men’s conferences that appear to be very uplifting for men, speeches by football players and the like - I think an event like this would bring you into contact with other men that may be able to coach/support you through this situation. ALSO - a great program that I listen to on Sirius #160 that helps strengthen me to get through each week is ‘The Lord’s Gym’, Jesse Romero is quite a role model to look up to and the way him and his host Michael speak is enough to empower anyone. BTW - I wouldn’t consider yourself weak, the very fact you have hung in there so long and stayed faithful w/o divorce or falling prey to other sins, speaks much. Unfortunately most men who may consider themselves ‘tough’, ‘macho’, ‘dominant’ would not last three months before deserting a relationship that you described. Point: pop culture and the shallow ideas of society may tell you that you are weak, but that does not make it so. (watching 16sec. of any soap opera will show you the swallow facade of ‘strong masculine’ posed by society - don’t buy this propaganda) You are strong, but I would recommend peer guidance like I mentioned above, you need face to face support from peers that understand you situation, AND remember: if at any point you questioned why you could not carry yourself - it is because you didn’t, Jesus did. So continue to trust in Him, bear you Cross with Him because He will subject no man to trial that He does not know he has the strength to endure.

God Bless & Stay STRONG for you kids, & for you wife - despite herself.

Resourced I had mentioned:
http://www.jesseromero.com/ *–> check out his weekly podcasts / streaming audio *
http://www.familylifecenter.net/ → send what you have wrote to the family life center as well, I’m sure they will provide you with resources, sign up for Steve’s free monthly newsletter for fathers
http://catholicresourcecenter.org/programs/reasonsfaith.htm –>more podcasts with Jesse Romero and Terry Barber, I would recommend this past weeks broadcast aired on 4/30

 

[mrpathetic]

Dude,

I would not be surprised if your children, especially your son, decide to leave the Catholic Church because of your bad example as a father and man; and I am not saying husband, because you do not have a wife, and with no wife, there is no husband. And if your children leave the faith because of you, you will have to answer to God.

Regarding my family:

De facto, My daughter has already left the Catholic Church. She routinely attends an evangelical church here in town. I almost have to drag her, to come to Mass with me on Sundays. She is 18 years old now, and effectively can do what she wants. I don’t support her decision to go to her own church, and I try my best, to bring her back to the Catholic faith.

My 15-year-old son is a pretty average teenager, but I still have hopes for him. He still wants to attend church with me. But he is going through the “goofball” phase of growing up, and he does not have serious, deep faith. He is still going through confirmation classes, so I have aspirations for him.

My wife never attends church, as she is now an agnostic.

==============================================================

No, I don’t think a divorce or annulment would be the best for my children’s faith development. My wife would get my son in the divorce settlement, which would kill what little faith life he has. (I live in Texas, and the wife almost always gets possession of the children in a divorce settlement. It is a no-fault divorce state.)

My best hope: to personnally set the best example for my children, even if my wife sets a terrible example. Perhaps my children will follow my lead, rather than her’s. I will try to be an exemplary Christian, through faith, obedience, piety, and charity. Then perhaps my children will follow in my footsteps. (Who knows, perhaps my wife will follow me as well - although the odds of that happening are very, very slim.)

And for that to happen, I will need to remain in 100% continence. I don’t want to do this, but I have no choice. If I want to set the proper example, and not be a hypocrite, then continence is the only way. What are the alternatives? Divorce, remarriage, adultery, prostitution, or worse.

Unfortunately, for the salvation of my family, I have to become a eunuch.

 

[FK04US]

Regarding my family:

My best hope: to personnally set the best example for my children, even if my wife sets a terrible example. Perhaps my children will follow my lead, rather than her’s. I will try to be an exemplary Christian, through faith, obedience, piety, and charity. Then perhaps my children will follow in my footsteps. (Who knows, perhaps my wife will follow me as well - although the odds of that happening are very, very slim.)

And for that to happen, I will need to remain in 100% continence. I don’t want to do this, but I have no choice. If I want to set the proper example, and not be a hypocrite, then continence is the only way. What are the alternatives? Divorce, remarriage, adultery, prostitution, or worse.

Unfortunately, for the salvation of my family, I have to become a eunuch.

Dude,

I am not sure if this will work for your son. As a guy, let me tell you that a son needs to admire his father, someone who he can respect and be proud of. I may be wrong but your plan sound something that a guy may appreciate in his mother, but not in his father. What about self respect, a sense of right authority, protection, adventure and being the head of the family?.

Again sorry for my words, but what I am trying to say is that rather than seeing a saint in you, your son may be judge you like a wimp, unable to take the lead and solve the family issues. AND when he wonders why, he could easily say “… because his church told him so … hence, I don’t want any of it” Like you and your father, you despised many things you father did and promised to never do the same things in your life, your son can also blame the Church for his situation…

It’s just a thought, take it or leave it. But in my humble opinion, you are making a BIG mistake by staying in this non-sex union (I refuse to call it marriage, because it is not).

In Christ,

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

“… because his church told him so … hence, I don’t want any of it”

Mr. Estimable, I wanted to chime in along this line, that you should make a clear distinction between what the Catholic Church advised you through its priests and deacons, and what you chose to do by disregarding that advice. At least you should make this clear to your children if it ever comes up in a discussion, lest they get a false impression about what the Church teaches about marriage as ordained by God, and they risk becoming bitter, marriage-hating, God-hating atheists and anti-Catholics. Fact is that the Church advised you that your marriage is likely not valid and the Church authoritatively teaches, through its teaching ministry entrusted by Jesus Christ and guaranteed by the Holy Spirit, that it is not God’s will that one should stay in an invalid or null marriage. You simply cannot imply that you are following God’s will as outlined in the teachings of the Church, and if you don’t make this clear to your children, you risk misleading them. Of course the Church did not make a determination through its Marriage Tribunal, but it cannot make a determination unless you ask for that. This situation is a little bit like the doctor advising a man based on his high blood levels of prostate-specific antigen (PSA), or advising a woman based on a lump in her breast, to get tested for possible cancer. The patient can always refuse to get further testing, it is his/her decision.

When it comes to the teachings of our Church, we are best off checking out the Catechism, and if we disagree with what’s said there, it essentially comes down to “the Church teaches so and so about marriage, and the Church believes that it teaches the will of God authoritatively and without error, but I disagree with its teachings and I believe that I know better”.

I say this because I noticed a number of disagreements between the teachings of our Church and your opinions, Mr. Estimable. First, the Church does not teach that it is always sinful to separate and/or get a civil divorce, in fact it teaches that separation and/or divorce may be necessary in certain circumstances. This is the general teaching and it does not give a yes or no answer to your specific case. Mr. Estimable, do you believe what the Church teaches through its Catechism and Magisterium? Second, nowhere does the Church teach that one should stay in an invalid marriage. Also, it does not give any promises that staying under one roof with someone who is not validly married to us, we will facilitate the salvation of said person. True, Our Blessed Mother said at Fatima, and Jesus said to St. Faustina, that we should pray for sinners and for unbelievers. But that’s not the same thing as staying under the same roof with someone who is not validly married to us. I am speaking here in general terms, not trying to prejudge your particular case after your deacon suggested that you have grounds for a declaration of nullity, but an actual determination by a Church Tribunal was not made.

If you refuse to find out whether your marriage is valid or not, after it was indicated by priests and deacons of the Church that it is possibly invalid, then you are on your own, making up and following your own rules apart from what the Church teaches. You might be suffering unnecessarily and the Church offered to help you, but you don’t want to be helped. Again, you may disagree with the Church, you may believe that the Church is in error when it says that you have no obligation whatsoever to stay in an invalid marriage, you may believe that you know God’s will better than the Church does, but I think you should acknowledge that you are in disagreement with the Church’s teachings at this point. Of course, there’s no determination of the validity of your marriage at this point, but this is because you chose not to find out the truth, much like a patient who gets a lab result of high PSA, and then refuses to follow up and find out whether he has early stage curable prostate cancer, advanced and untreatable cancer, or possibly just benign prostatic hyperplasia.

Would it have any redeeming value for me if I refused to have my health checked out more thoroughly after there was suspicion of disease? Is there value to letting a health problem go untreated and possibly succumb to the disease due to neglect? Should Israel had refused to be released from bondage in Egypt? Should Peter had stayed in prison when God sent his Angel to release him? Staying in a null marriage is like these - it’s like Israel refusing to be released from captivity.

Once the representatives of the Church indicated that your marriage is possibly invalid, and offered their help in making a determination, you cannot claim that you are following God’s will as the Church understands it. You are following what YOU believe is God’s will, and your beliefs are in disagreement with the Church’s teachings.

I think it is really important that you make a decision: do you want to follow the Catholic Church’s teachings, or do you want to follow your own beliefs, when the two contradict each other? Reading your posts, I came to enjoy them, the intellectual and analytical bent of these posts. So, I am trying to challenge you in this sense, but I am certainly motivated by friendly feelings.

I would like to mention a practical matter, too. You found a letter in which that woman calls your wife her soulmate. You have also other grounds to suspect infidelity. This is what I would do in this situation: I would flat out confront my wife, ask her to put an end to her affair, and honor her marriage vows. And if she refused, I wouldn’t stay under one roof with her. Regarding marital intimacy, I wouldn’t try before I was sure my wife ended her affair and she got thoroughly checked for STDs. You don’t know her status at this point, and you don’t want to find it out the hard way.

 

[Princess18]

If you refuse to find out whether your marriage is valid or not, after it was indicated by priests and deacons of the Church that it is possibly invalid, then you are on your own, making up and following your own rules apart from what the Church teaches. You might be suffering unnecessarily and the Church offered to help you, but you don’t want to be helped. Again, you may disagree with the Church, you may believe that the Church is in error when it says that you have no obligation whatsoever to stay in an invalid marriage, you may believe that you know God’s will better than the Church does, but I think you should acknowledge that you are in disagreement with the Church’s teachings at this point.

I wholeheartedly third what the last two posters have said. You are going against Church teachings, assuming that you know better than the priest who advised you, the Catechism, and Magesterium. It is admirable that you are willing to suffer, but you are not setting a good example for your children when you ignore what the Church instructs us to do in cases of abuse and invalid marriage.

Please understand, the last two posters and I are speaking harshly because we feel that you are heading further and further down the wrong path … a sinful one in fact. The more you post about how you’re going to blatantly disregard the guidance of the Catholic Church, the more it seems you’d rather be selfish and enjoy your misery, as it makes you a bit of a martyr … everyone applauding your valiant efforts and dedication to a horrible situation. Even though it’s not the standard, it’s still selfish indulgence - just your own brand.

 

[mrpathetic]

1. I am no heretic. I give full ascent of faith, to the teachings of the Church, and its Magisterium. I am a catechist in my Diocese, and I would not practice as a catechist, if I did not believe this. I follow all of the Church’s teachings, to the best of my abilities. I am not perfect - I am a sinner, as is everyone else in this message board. But I am not a heretic or schismatic. I know the Church’s infallible teachings on marriage and sexuality, and I follow them to the letter of the law.
2. When I met with the Deacon at my parish, he made two things very clear to me. First, no one is required, under the current canons, to seek a divorce or annulment. This may have been true in the early days of the Church, when spouses of adulterers were required to separate from their spouses. But that is not the case, today. Instead, the Church encourages married people to do everything within their power, before seeking a divorce/annulment.

The other point that the Deacon made crystal-clear to me was this: our Diocese does not process annulment applications, until a civil divorce is finalized. So essentially, I would have to break up my family, before finding out if my marriage is valid or not. That is taking a big, big risk for me.

All marriages are considered valid by the Church, until the Tribunal says they are not. My marriage to my wife is valid, no matter what evidence I have to the contrary, until the Tribunal issues the declaration of nullity.

If the Tribunal rules that my marriage is valid, the civil divorce will already be finalized. And under those circumstances, my wife is not coming back, not matter what the Tribunal says. Of course, then I would not be permitted to re-marry. So I would still be forced into sexlessness, for life. (Plus, I would lose what little self-respect that I still have. I would become just another divorced Catholic - just another statistic.)

1. I would only attempt this in 2-3 years. Here is the practical reason why.

As I have stated, Texas is a no-fault state, and the wife always receives custody of the minor children (barring abuse, neglect, etc.) My wife is an agnostic. If we divorce, my wife will have care of our son for the final 2 years of high school. My son is 16, and turns 18 in 2 years.

In effect, my wife will have control of the faith formation of my son, during the most important years before adulthood. I seriously doubt that my son would be confirmed, if that takes place. He is currently taking the confirmation classes, and he is on schedule to be confirmed next spring.

So if I do decide to take this route, it will not be until 2011, or afterwards. Until that point, I will need to continue to pursue my path of sacrifice, obedience, and continence. Ultimately, this is still in the best interest of my children.

 

[Galnextdoor]

Regarding my family:

De facto, My daughter has already left the Catholic Church. She routinely attends an evangelical church here in town. I almost have to drag her, to come to Mass with me on Sundays.\QUOTE]

I am sorry to hear about your daughter leaving the church. I will pray for her.

 

[speaker1777]

You have great control over the English language. I absorbed your posts well. My English on the other hand may have holes for an incomplete understanding of my ideas.

I too am in this state of sadness. I wonder if I would ever have the opportunity to marry because I see myself such a sinner and also from the secularist perspective that I have lived with dysfunction in my family.
Was it hard for you to get married? I too have noble ideas about what marriage is which also comes from the catholic church (which I found myself joining in the Easter of 2005, praise to God.) Man and woman, no divorce, no abortion, no evil and making Charity ‘our’ aim. But I find this hard for anyone because frankly few always keep every commandment until death (Thank God for the sacrament of reconciliation, i suppose if one believes in God). With every passing relationship which bears a vague title, if any, I consider that if God has called me to marry ‘someone’ there will be crosses because very few are perfect and saintly in this life. I cannot recall many saints that were married and even the ones I know of seemed distant from their spouses in the longer run once they were drawing closer to God. (Not that persons that have been spouses aren’t both already in heaven but that people aren’t cannonized as husband and wife. I could be wrong.) One a mystic St. Bregedette? and one an early death (this person cannonized, I cannot remember her name but she died of giving birth) (Please tell me of other saints if I am lacking in the knowledge of them which i probably am).
I remain with my father and step mother because I fear they will not last. Many times, my step mother has proposed to leave in anger of my father’s unaffectionitiveness: first with a bad mouth and second no loving experiences. Yet she clearly stated that I was the reason she stayed. If I left, their broken relationship will manifest itself in full. (They are not practicing Catholics.) I fear I have no example to follow making it hard for me to be sacramental of showing affection somewhat like my father. So I remain single to try and salvage my parents marriage and save someone heart ache which I fear I will bring to the table. I sorely would not just jump into marrying unless it would be a good idea which on the this time I see as a disadvantage instead of a benefit.

I suppose I have a twisted idea of the faith in regards to what it should have me be doing? I couldn’t leave my father and step mother because I am tied to a family business which could function, i suppose, without me, but I fear it will not do well if I am completely absent. And I recall that I should Honor my mother and father ‘in the lord’ (but what does it mean, “in the Lord”?) It would be hard for me to simply live out on my own experimenting with relationships knowing I could be helping my family who were there for me to this day even though I receive crosses from them.

I have struggled with masturbation to porn. These disgust me by themselves in my todays especially, but I have wed the two together to make a counter-fit sexual experience which is sad. In order to overcome this sin, I have found that it comes down to simply denying myself and following Jesus. Jesus was continent and He said if I am able to be a eunich for the kingdom of God than I should… not that I am fit to serve as a priest, but that I should follow Jesus by not sinning. In effect, a complete denial of sex for myself because a marriage won’t begin because I lack affectionate expressions aka hugs and kisses and not masturbation to porn because that is dreadfully sinful. This sadness returned to me this day and I know depression can change behavior so I shall consider this a suffering which causes me to cease from sin as St. Peter said in his epistle. The behavioral change is made possible because of the hope of eternal life if I proceed. That great virtue of hope brings a joy inside me. This joy is not a feeling of peace and happiness but the solid fact that no one can take the gift of eternal life from me. (well I suppose except in my fault, which is not an issue if I am fully commited.)

I know in heaven no one is married. But I suppose for those on earth we can give all spiritual benefit to anyone when it is the will of God for one of us if we are part of the first resurrection which are those that rule with Christ in the millenium according to St. Augustine.

After reading your story marriage is even more risky. Then after reading the story by the link you gave in one of your posts, marriage seems like it isn’t worth the trouble. But I suppose if we follow Jesus there will be a cross and through suffering we are perfected in charity. Weather God calls me to marry or enter the religious life, there will be a cross waiting like it did for Jesus. So it is late and I desired to return to the sacramental life of the church which I have been distanced from for a time now. I must sleep and wake soon.

How you brought up the daily cross. I think like on the cross Jesus died. Our crosses may eventually lead us to death, but like Jesus resurrection, we too will rise with him. I don’t think Jesus was suicidal because he knew what he was doing was the will of God and also that He will raise himself up again. (So he was only dead for 2 days… cause he rose on the 3rd).

I don’t know if I am of any help which I fear I am probably not.

Ahh, help me Jesus where I am lacking.

 

[JohnPaul64]

1. I am no heretic. I give full ascent of faith, to the teachings of the Church, and its Magisterium. I am a catechist in my Diocese, and I would not practice as a catechist, if I did not believe this. I follow all of the Church’s teachings, to the best of my abilities. I am not perfect - I am a sinner, as is everyone else in this message board. But I am not a heretic or schismatic. I know the Church’s infallible teachings on marriage and sexuality, and I follow them to the letter of the law.
2. When I met with the Deacon at my parish, he made two things very clear to me. First, no one is required, under the current canons, to seek a divorce or annulment. This may have been true in the early days of the Church, when spouses of adulterers were required to separate from their spouses. But that is not the case, today. Instead, the Church encourages married people to do everything within their power, before seeking a divorce/annulment.

The other point that the Deacon made crystal-clear to me was this: our Diocese does not process annulment applications, until a civil divorce is finalized. So essentially, I would have to break up my family, before finding out if my marriage is valid or not. That is taking a big, big risk for me.

All marriages are considered valid by the Church, until the Tribunal says they are not. My marriage to my wife is valid, no matter what evidence I have to the contrary, until the Tribunal issues the declaration of nullity.

If the Tribunal rules that my marriage is valid, the civil divorce will already be finalized. And under those circumstances, my wife is not coming back, not matter what the Tribunal says. Of course, then I would not be permitted to re-marry. So I would still be forced into sexlessness, for life. (Plus, I would lose what little self-respect that I still have. I would become just another divorced Catholic - just another statistic.)

1. I would only attempt this in 2-3 years. Here is the practical reason why.

As I have stated, Texas is a no-fault state, and the wife always receives custody of the minor children (barring abuse, neglect, etc.) My wife is an agnostic. If we divorce, my wife will have care of our son for the final 2 years of high school. My son is 16, and turns 18 in 2 years.

In effect, my wife will have control of the faith formation of my son, during the most important years before adulthood. I seriously doubt that my son would be confirmed, if that takes place. He is currently taking the confirmation classes, and he is on schedule to be confirmed next spring.

So if I do decide to take this route, it will not be until 2011, or afterwards. Until that point, I will need to continue to pursue my path of sacrifice, obedience, and continence. Ultimately, this is still in the best interest of my children.

I too will not address you as your screen name. I wish I was as strong and persevering as you my friend. God Bless you. I have not read all of these posts but from what I’m reading some are telling you to leave. I on the other hand think you will be very rewarded by staying and keep fighting. Pray for her even if you don’t think its working. I don’t know if you say the rosary but I would recommend doing this daily. Pray for her soul, love her, she is a child of God who has gone astray. You will be richly rewarded for your love. One thing I notice is she has not left you despite her way of treating you. That tells me there is something there. Please stop beating yourself up and become a strong Catholic man because in my eyes you allready are. You also don’t have to take any abuse. I would fight back every time she gets in your face. If anything try hugging her and tell her you love her all the time. She will wear out. I strongly tell you to go to the Blessed Mother with the rosary. God Bless PS I was married to a non Catholic awhile ago and we soon divorced. Knowing what I know today I would have tried to make it work.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Mr Estimable, I have been thinking about your situation for days and days. I will post here rather than the other thread (are Catholic men…).

I understand that you fully submit to the Catholic Church’s teachings. You are not a heretic, trying to create his own rules. The Catholic Church is infallible when it teaches that separation and/or divorce are not always sinful, and that certain marriages are null (invalid), even though initially they appeared to be valid. A specific subcategory within invalid marriages is the “putative marriage”, i.e. a marriage that one party celebrated in good faith, however the other party never intended or wasn’t capable of a real, sacramental marriage.

The Church is not infallible when making particular determinations, judging the validity of specific cases of marriages. One Pope in the 20th century said that sometimes the Church binds that which God never bound, and releases that which is still bound in God’s eyes. He referred to the fact that the Church sometimes makes mistakes. However, every decision of nullity (“annulment”) made by a Marriage Tribunal is automatically sent for re-evaluation by another Tribunal, in order to minimize mistakes. Some cases are easy and clear-cut, while others are not. By now, I’m sure you educated yourself a lot on such things as separation, divorce, and nullity of marriage in the eyes of the Church, and you lean one way or the other in your opinion, even though it’s the Tribunal that can make a binding decision. However, your personal take on the situation is still important.

These are my questions: how confident were the representatives of the Church, that your marriage may be invalid? I remember, you said that a particular Deacon, who is very experienced and handles annulment cases in your Diocese, said that you have a strong case for annulment. Still, was he the only person who gave an opinion, or did you talk to a larger number of Priests, Canon Lawyers, and Deacons? Did a consensus emerge, everybody overwhelmingly advising you that your marriage is most probably not valid, or were there different and conflicting opinions? And what’s your personal take on the advice received, does it seem to you that there’s little room for error and your Deacon’s opinion that the marriage is not valid should be trusted with a high degree of certainty? Or are you quite simply wary that the representatives of the Church risk making an erroneous judgment, and you therefore prefer not to even go there to risk your valid marriage annulled in error?