sexual ethics question

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NM505StKate said:
Going to be blunt but this sounds so contrived. Where does it say God loves babies? just so much red tape for what is a pleasurable act.
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He is paraphrasing. God gave us the blessed gift of sex that is unitive AND procreative. Most people generally take that to mean as “being open to having children”, which means ejaculation into the vagina.

However, once again, there is no church documents (that I know of) that explicitly states this. Could a couple perform more atypical acts but still be open to procreation? Yeah, I’m sure they could.

The requirements for Catholic Sex: Within the marriage, unitive, procreative, with continence, and with charity. Anything within those rules and goals is good.
 
jmjZelie said:
Please tell me you are not using this unapproved catechism in teaching your students. Ron Conte may have some legitimate Catholic teachings on his website, but the section on sexual ethics is not Catholic teaching. It is full of errors.

Did you have permission from the university to use this unapproved catechism??
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In this great country, you can be whatever you want to be…on the internet.
 
jmjZelie said:
The husband may manually stimulate his wife’s genitals to the point of climax, before, during, or after coitus. It is an act of charity and justice to take that time to prepare her for penetration and ensure her release of the sexual tension created within her body by her husband.

She may manually stimulate her husband to please or prepare him, but not to the point of climax. Because the husband’s climax is the event that accomplishes the procreative end of the marital act (two ends that must not be separated: procreative and unitive) his climax must occur within his wife’s vagina.

Hope that helps!
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The Church has NEVER taught the above-quoted claims about sex within marriage.

Instead, the Church teaches that each and every single sexual act in a marriage must be inherently procreative and unitive. Unnatural sexual acts committed to completion on the wife are always gravely immoral. Such acts have always been strongly condemned by the Church. The idea that unnatural sexual acts are moral on the husband, as long as climax is absent (or occurs later in natural relations) is also false.

Saint Alphonsus Liguori considered these questions (about the wife and the husband) and he absolutely rejected both types of unnatural sexual acts, whether climax is present or not. Saints Augustine and Aquinas also rejected unnatural sexual acts in marriage.

The only moral sexual act within marriage is natural intercourse – the type of act that is inherently ordered toward procreation. Unnatural sexual acts are inherently evil because they are neither procreative nor truly unitive.

One cannot group together a set of sexual acts, only some (or one) of which are truly unitive and procreative, in order to justify the whole set.
 
Without attempting to be too crude, how are a husband and wife supposed to get their genitals close enough together without any handling in an unnatural way? Seems like a difficult task when the only foreplay allowed is whispering “brace thyself, dear. I’m on my way.”
 
Ron_Conte said:
The Church has NEVER taught the above-quoted claims about sex within marriage.

Instead, the Church teaches that each and every single sexual act in a marriage must be inherently procreative and unitive. Unnatural sexual acts committed to completion on the wife are always gravely immoral. Such acts have always been strongly condemned by the Church. The idea that unnatural sexual acts are moral on the husband, as long as climax is absent (or occurs later in natural relations) is also false.

Saint Alphonsus Liguori considered these questions (about the wife and the husband) and he absolutely rejected both types of unnatural sexual acts, whether climax is present or not. Saints Augustine and Aquinas also rejected unnatural sexual acts in marriage.

The only moral sexual act within marriage is natural intercourse – the type of act that is inherently ordered toward procreation. Unnatural sexual acts are inherently evil because they are neither procreative nor truly unitive.

One cannot group together a set of sexual acts, only some (or one) of which are truly unitive and procreative, in order to justify the whole set.
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How about back rubs? How about foot rubs? Did you know some women can actually orgasm from foot rubs? Is that okay by your rules? How about a wife dressing up in a frilly nighty so she can look hot for her husband…is that okay by your rules, or is that IMMORAL. What about the husband that gets aroused simply by looking at his wife, or vice versa…is that IMMORAL?

You are referencing Bishops and Priests from hundreds and thousands of years ago instead of reading what a recent POPE has issued as CHURCH DOCTRINE in the THEOLOGY OF THE BODY. Worse yet, your writings are ruining the sex lives of many Catholic marriages.

CHURCH DOCTRINE, as set forth by POPE JOHN PAUL II in the THEOLOGY OF THE BODY is VERY CLEAR - sexual acts within the marriage must be unitive and procreative, and must be done with continence and charity. Marital acts done within these guidelines sanctify the couple’s concupiscence.

Catholic sex is AWESOME when done this way, with God present in the bedroom as you celebrate the Sacrament of Marriage that He blessed us with.
 
Ron, for all the years you have been posting here I can recall only one person actually agreeing with you on this topic.

You simply do not know what you are talking about and are misleading people.
 
Boatswain2PA said:
He is paraphrasing. God gave us the blessed gift of sex that is unitive AND procreative. Most people generally take that to mean as “being open to having children”, which means ejaculation into the vagina.

However, once again, there is no church documents (that I know of) that explicitly states this. Could a couple perform more atypical acts but still be open to procreation? Yeah, I’m sure they could.

The requirements for Catholic Sex: Within the marriage, unitive, procreative, with continence, and with charity. Anything within those rules and goals is good.
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So it is more the Church that made those rules. I mean that is how I am taking it. Also humans, heck animals, have always had sex. It isn’t so much a gift as a biological response.
 
PaulinVA said:
Ron, for all the years you have been posting here I can recall only one person actually agreeing with you on this topic.

You simply do not know what you are talking about and are misleading people.
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It appears that he has agreement from the one that linked to his page.
 
NM505StKate said:
So it is more the Church that made those rules. I mean that is how I am taking it. Also humans, heck animals, have always had sex. It isn’t so much a gift as a biological response.
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We’re human animals. If we can’t use our intellect and morals to guide us and just have to explain it as a biological response, then what would make incest, adultery, polygamy, pedophilia, or other immoral acts wrong?
 
patricius79 said:
In a marriage, my understanding is that it is not wrong to manually stimulate one’s spouse on their genitals, even to the point of orgasm, as long as one fully intends to consummate the act genitally. Is that correct?
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As the majority of posters have commented this is acceptable as has been explained (being open to life and unitive).

Some Catholics have different opinions. Some theologians have different opinions. Some Saints have different opinions. Some clergy have different opinions. You can consult them as little or as much as you like to form your own conscience. If your mind is troubled, seek out the advice of your Priest.
 
Burt_Macklin said:
Without attempting to be too crude, how are a husband and wife supposed to get their genitals close enough together without any handling in an unnatural way? Seems like a difficult task when the only foreplay allowed is whispering “brace thyself, dear. I’m on my way.”
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I just spit my coffee onto the keyboard. I’ll be sending you the bill…😃
 
PaulinVA said:
Ron, for all the years you have been posting here I can recall only one person actually agreeing with you on this topic.

You simply do not know what you are talking about and are misleading people.
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And suspiciously, that poster’s screen name was Don Conte…:hmmm:
 
Alice von Hildebrand: “It is precisely because the marital bed is sacred that one should approach acts within it with enormous reverence. Degrading and perverse sexual behavior-- even it is it done by a married couple, who do not practice contraception-- should be condemned, as an assault on human dignity. The “pornification” of marriage should be resisted as vigorously as the pornification of our culture.”

Saint Alphonsus Liguori asks: “Whether it is a mortal sin for the husband to begin copulating in a disordered orifice, then afterward consummate the act in the proper orifice?”

His answer is, Yes, it is a mortal sin: “The reason is that this manner of his sexual act even without climax is truly sodomy, whether or not it is consummated, just as an act of copulation in the natural orifice of another woman is truly fornication, even if there is no climax.” [Moral Theology, Book 6, Q. 916]

Saints Aquinas and Augustine also condemn unnatural sexual acts in marriage.

[Hebrews]
{13:4} May marriage be honorable in every way, and may the marriage bed be immaculate. For God will judge fornicators and adulterers.
 
The USCCB on marital chastity: “Each and every sexual act in a marriage needs to be open to the possibility of conceiving a child.”
[USCCB Catechism, p. 409]

“Sometimes one hears it said that as long as the marriage as a whole is open to children, each individual act of intercourse need not be. In fact, however, a marriage is only as open to procreation as each act of intercourse is, because the whole meaning of marriage is present and signified in each marital act. Each marital act signifies, embodies, and renews the original and enduring marital covenant between husband and wife. That is what makes intercourse exclusively a marital act.”
[USCCB pastoral letter, Marriage: Love and Life in the Divine Plan]
usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/marriage/love-and-life/index.cfm
 
Ron_Conte said:
Alice von Hildebrand: “It is precisely because the marital bed is sacred that one should approach acts within it with enormous reverence. Degrading and perverse sexual behavior-- even it is it done by a married couple, who do not practice contraception-- should be condemned, as an assault on human dignity. The “pornification” of marriage should be resisted as vigorously as the pornification of our culture.”

Saint Alphonsus Liguori asks: “Whether it is a mortal sin for the husband to begin copulating in a disordered orifice, then afterward consummate the act in the proper orifice?”

His answer is, Yes, it is a mortal sin: “The reason is that this manner of his sexual act even without climax is truly sodomy, whether or not it is consummated, just as an act of copulation in the natural orifice of another woman is truly fornication, even if there is no climax.” [Moral Theology, Book 6, Q. 916]

Saints Aquinas and Augustine also condemn unnatural sexual acts in marriage.

[Hebrews]
{13:4} May marriage be honorable in every way, and may the marriage bed be immaculate. For God will judge fornicators and adulterers.
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It’s somewhat comforting to know there is no way you could be married with your position. None.
 
Ron,
The acts you consider “unnatural” are not only natural but are required by the way God created us.

The two posts below where you quote other people talking about other things don’t have anything to do with this thread.
 
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