Sexual Morality of Certain Acts (+18)

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sealabeag

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Hi,
I’m going to ask some fairly explicit questions below, so this is an over 18’s thread, please!!

So, basically ever since my return to the Catholic faith, I’ve been relearning what a healthy sexuality is. My view of sexuality has been in so many ways formed by the world, and that isn’t always easy to fix. Recently, I’ve been really trying to get a handle on the specifics of what is and what isn’t licit, sexually, within marriage. And I have to say, there’s a lot of confusion, differing opinions, and lack of clarity out there. I’ve gained clarity on about 90% of what’s licit and illicit within marriage, however I still have a couple of questions for which I need definite answers.
They are:
  1. I know that oral sex, whether fellatio or cunnilingus, as an end in itself, that is, not directed towards intercourse, is a sin/illicit. I have no problems there. However, I can’t figure out if a certain amount of oral stimulation is okay as preparation for intercourse, and if so, how much is okay? I don’t want to get extremely explicit, but I do want clear, specific answers.
  2. If, as is presumably often the case, the woman does not reach climax simultaneously to the man during intercourse, is manual or oral stimulation of the woman licit in order to allow her to reach climax?
I would really appreciate not opinions or arguments, but quotes from Saints and their writings, Church teaching, and respectable theologians in answer to these questions.

And please don’t allow this thread to descend into chaos! Thank you.
 
  1. Licit as long as the end is proper intercourse.
  2. Licit.
Pretty straightforward questions and answers, actually 🙂

ETA: I think both of these are covered in Humanae Vitae, but I could be mistaken.
 
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You’re going to continue to receive differing opinions on these forums.

Beyond the act being finished in a proper manner and of course the complementarity of spouses, the Church isn’t “policing” the bedroom nowadays, and you may discern with your own conscience on the matter.
 
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These questions you should bring to the master of Theology of the Body, JPII. So keep him in your prayers. To understand his teachings read the book Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West. It is a question and answer book and has answers to your EXACT questions.


While we can all give you the answers to your questions (the answers are what @HopkinsReb wrote) you would do best going to the guy who is a true professional and champion on this stuff. Buy the book and read it. West has also done talks on YouTube which can help you.

So short answer, read what @HopkinsReb wrote. Long and most complete answer, buy this book. Not to mention the book will undoubtedly have answers to more questions that you may have
 
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sealabeag said:
I know that oral sex, whether fellatio or cunnilingus, as an end in itself, that is, not directed towards intercourse
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Also just to be picky, it’s not that it has to be directed to intercourse as the action itself. It has to be directed to the openness and possibility of procreation which only happens in intercourse. This is actually a very important distinction becauese by your words, having oral sex not to completion then using contraception in intercourse is fine, the answer is no. Do you understand what I mean? It is ordered to the possibility of procreation not sex in and of itself
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
Perfectly fine, because a woman reaching orgasm through manual or oral stimulation doesn’t inhibit conception (might actually increase odds of conceiving). A man could perform oral sex on his wife, bring her to orgasm, and then they have sex where he has an orgasm. Perfectly fine. Both parties had a good time, and conception wasn’t prevented.
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I think JPII actually said this was to be encouraged because it increases the wife’s enjoyment of sex and thereby encourages it.
 
Well, to start, JPII is a saint. But remember that just because someone is a saint doesn’t mean everything they said during their earthly life is true. They were still humans prone to making mistakes.
 
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Much of what I have read regarding what the Catholic Church teaches about acceptable sexual activity between husband and wife sounds like if the wife doesn’t have an orgasm during straight intercourse alone than she can’t have one at all. That just does NOT seem right at all. I mean REALLY???
 
Fraevo63 said:
Much of what I have read regarding what the Catholic Church teaches about acceptable sexual activity between husband and wife sounds like if the wife doesn’t have an orgasm during straight intercourse alone than she can’t have one at all. That just does NOT seem right at all. I mean REALLY???
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No. Not really.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
(might actually increase odds of conceiving)
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not “might”, but “does”–it causes the uterus to dip down, increasing the chances of catching the sperm.

The effect is modest in people, but necessary for conception in some others (rabbits).
 
Again, I appreciate all the above replies, however as of yet no one has provided me with anything other than opinion - I’d really appreciate some guidance from more authoritative sources. What of the article from Catholic Answers that I posted? Am I just touching on a subject for which there is no answer? Surely there must be?
 
HopkinsReb said:
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BoomBoomMancini:
Perfectly fine, because a woman reaching orgasm through manual or oral stimulation doesn’t inhibit conception (might actually increase odds of conceiving). A man could perform oral sex on his wife, bring her to orgasm, and then they have sex where he has an orgasm. Perfectly fine. Both parties had a good time, and conception wasn’t prevented.
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I think JPII actually said this was to be encouraged because it increases the wife’s enjoyment of sex and thereby encourages it.
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Actually you are both wrong, JPII said the opposite of what you are saying.
 
I get you’re looking for the “X says so so that’s the last word”, but the Church does not have a list of “do’s” and “dont’s” regarding orgasm outside of intercourse. Jesus did not preach specifically on this topic. Therefore, the Church has many members who have written their opinion on how to view sexual expression through the lens, and in context, of Jesus’ teachings. There is not “thou shalt” or “thou shalt not”. Find a person who is obedient to the Church, and gifted in interpretation of His teachings and go with that. I would also caution you to remember context when relying on, or becoming confused by, the writings of those who lived, thought and reasoned in a way very different from the time in which we are living…it’s easy to misinterpret.
 
Some saints say oral sex is always wrong. Aquinas. Liguori. Some theologians don’t share this view. Like Heribert Jone. He’s a respectable theologian. But consider that the 2 others are saints.
 
That’s a little crude… The Forum Rules you consented to say the following…

Conduct Rules, No. 1: Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks, threats, and incendiary, divisive, crude or sexually-explicit language.

Content Rules, No. 1: Consider these forums rated “PG” and any content going beyond a “PG” rating, as solely deemed so by the moderators, will be removed and any member posting such content may have privileges taken away or be banned/suspended.
 
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