Sexual Morality of Certain Acts (+18)

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Once you have a clear idea about the purpose of sex and our life here and respect towards this beautiful human body which God has given to us,this type of doubts will never arise.Forplay,stimulation, simultaneous orgasm,enjoying sex fully and thoroughly by indulging in any type of bodily activities,using other body organs clearly not meant for sexual activity,but nevertheless giving sexual pleasure , viewing porn films for stimulation… etc have arisen from a distorted and sinful thinking that enjoying sex is one of the main purpose of this life.Let the primary purpose of your intercourse be for rereation and sharing of pure love and affection with your spouse. Don’t unnecessarily worry whether the climax will be reached,full enjoyment will be derived,stimulation is sufficient etc because such things are not really important as one would find over passage of time.Each time you try one method for stimulation and for added pleasure,you will find that it may not that much work next time and you will search for something new.This worthless pursuit will go on but in the meanwhile you won’t know the fact that your precious time in this world primarily meant for some other noble purpose is wasted. So better to be conservative in these matters…
 
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This is highly inappropriate for this forum. We have some young members here and those who don’t want to read what you wrote. Highly unacceptable
 
They are saying oral sex is wrong because the term sex meaning bringing the action to completion. Christopher West notes, oral sex, in the way it is generally understood (competition), is wrong because the competition takes place outside of a reproductive act. Oral stimulation implies no-completion of the act and is thus fine. This is what these Saints are noting.

The great Pope St. John Paul II says oral sex is sinful but says oral stimulation is not. Nobody is going to make the argument oral sex is okay because it is fundamentally disordered to a non-reproductive act. Oral stimulation is not disordered as long as it is ordered to a reproductive act in the end
 
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I think the saints are talking about oral stimulation as sin, not just completion. They think it is mortal. They think is a defiling of marriage. But I read the link above posted by the OP and there says St Alphonsus thought a kiss in the parts could not be sin. But I think that is different than oral stimulation.
 
I’m going to take the word of Pope St. John Paul II on this whose major part of his Potifical message was built around chastity, what it means to be human, and sexuality → Theology of the Body

What is the purpose of sex:
  • Procreation
  • Pleasure
Homosexual acts and contraception violate the procreative aspect so they are intrinsically disordered. Oral sex also violates procreation and is intrinsically disordered. Oral stimulation does not violate either of these purposes as long as it is ordered to a reproductive act.

These saints are saying, someone can’t have oral stimulation (not competed) and then just stop there. No, this is sinful because the act wasn’t ordered to a procreative act. Oral stimulation is only moral if it is completed with the reproductive act. Do you understand what these saints mean now?
 
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Yes, it certainly seems that way, hence my confusion. It seems like public opinion differs from two of the Church’s most esteemed Saints. Since I have yet to get a clear answer, at this point I’d be erring on the side of caution. Kissing of the spouse regardless of body part, is fine. Actual simulation of sex, it seems, even if ending in intercourse, is not. Unless someone can support their opinion with clear writings.
 
I’ve yet to read any saint who said oral sex is okay so long as it’s ordered to a reproductive act, though?
 
Oral stimulation not oral sex. Have you read anything from JPII?

But the book “Good news about sex and marriage” by Christopher West. He breaks down the teachings of JPII’s Theology of the Body in terms of marriage and sexual acts. He specifically has a section devoted to oral stimulation. Spoiler alert - he says exactly what I’m saying
 
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We have to read them from the source. Can you quote for me what JPII said literally?
 
Well then I have yet to read any saint who said oral stimulation is okay so long as it’s ordered to the reproductive act. Did JPII say it was ok? Do you have any quotes?
 
I do not have my copy of West’s book on hand where he gives specific examples. Look there and you will find them. I would have to dig to find them as I don’t have the book currently with me
 
The quotes are in West’s book, many of them. As I don’t have the book literally on me at this very moment I would have to dig for answers.

If you want to know the true answers, buy the book. West can explain it far better than I can
 
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There are more saints than those two who think like them. I suppose one has to use one’s own criterion and the Church does not want to pur too much weight in the conscience of the catholics. I would err on the safe side.
 
sealabeag said:
Well then I have yet to read any saint who said oral stimulation is okay so long as it’s ordered to the reproductive act. Did JPII say it was ok? Do you have any quotes?
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Why would you expect that level of specificity? The Church has given us general principles around sex. It’s not going to provide exhaustive lists of what is permissible. There are some general guidelines, feel free to improvise and have fun within them.
 
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