'Sexuality, like priesthood, is a gift from God. Nobody would choose to be gay'

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fix said:
The same groups that endorse homosexuality as normal and healthy? How many of those groups endorse “gay” marriage? How many endorse abortion as therapeutic?
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Licensing bodies aren’t conserned with the issues you list.

“Reparative Therapy” is not a recognized therapy by the official professional licensing bodies of the various mental health disciplines. A clinician knowing that another is engaging in such activity is ethically bound to inform the appropriate licensing body. Those advocating this approach are indeed in the far fringe of the mental health field.

Health insurance will not cover efforts to change sexual orientation.

These questions of the development and nature of sexual orientation lie outside of the questions of the moral licitness of engaging in homosexual acts. Attempts by the therapist to press their personal religious convictions onto a client would be grossly unethical. On the other hand, a therapist cannot be forced to violate their religious convictions in work with a client. If the clinician is conserned that their personal religious or ethical standards may be compromized they must refer the client to another therapist who may be able to help them.
 
vsedriver said:
why do people act like life long celibacy is a fate worse than death? And what makes people think that if they don’t marry they will suffer from loneliness? I am living a celibate life, I have friends, and family. My life is not awful just because I am following Church teaching.
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I did say ‘potential’ loneliness, as being born gay may be perceived by the gay person, as having no choice BUT to be celibate, whereas a heterosexual may choose either lifestyle, marriage or being single.

Hence my comment regarding the fact that a christian gay person who wished to remain celibate, could marry and have a similar choice as a heterosexual person.
 
LOL at the idea that nobody would choose to be gay.

In my circle of friends & family:
  1. Married woman has four children, husband dies, takes up relationship with female co-worker.
  2. Men (2), both married with one wife & one child, mid-life crisis, then sex change operations.
ROFL.
 
He is on a TV chat show, at the moment, in Ireland and has not answered the question directly, but it would seem he is definately not a priest.

He mentioned that Cardinal Ratzinger said in the '80’s that “homosexuals were disordered and their love evil.”
Does anyone know if this is true, I cannot find a reference to it on the web.

In addition he said that one cardinal/bishop said IN THE '70’s/80’s that AIDS was the result of a disordered act of nature (or words to that effect), i.e. in other words he was saying that the CC has treated homosexuals, dreadfully.
 
ivebeenshown said:
Oh strawman, if only you had a brain!

…who exactly is saying that it sexual preference can be changed at ‘the drop of a hat’? Conditioning doesn’t happen overnight. I believe that my preference was conditioned because of actions I chose to perform.
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And this is how some in the psychological world believe various behaviors become fixed. Sexuality is complex and it is changeable. I have had a lot of close contact with homosexuals who are very prevalent in the world of show horses. I have seen more than a few appear straight, marry and raise a family only to “come out” divorce the wife and take up with a younger man. Were they homosexual all along or is this just a different manifestation of a midlife crisis? I have also seen quite predatory behavior on the part of older homosexuals who identify young men with homosexual leanings. Had the young man not been “mentored” into the homosexaul lifestyle would he have remained straight? One of my closest homosexual friends went through just such a transformation. He seemed like a normal teen, interested in sports and girls and cars. He went to work for a straight trainer and was often the subject of “attention” by homosexual trainers who flattered him and encouraged him. He was engaged to be married and went to a homosexual owned training barn for a six month apprenticeship. When he returned he came out and broke the engagement. Was he homosexual all along or was he vulnerable to the attention of older males? He’d grown up with a hippie “mom” who got him when his bio mom dumped him off for babysitting and never returned. Was the abandonment and odd lifestyle part of this change? I don’t know but I don’t believe the day he was born, his genes fixed a homosexual orientation.

I was involved in a charity that helped young men off the street. They sold their bodies to other men often due to a substance abuse issue but sometimes it was simply a matter of survival on the street. The young men thought they “must” be homosexual, else they would not have fallen into that life. Therapy helped many of them out of the life and onto a more normal heterosexual orientation.

Behavior can fix certain characteristics. This is not a foreign concept in the world of psychology. People exhibit behaviors that reward them in some way. At some point after repetition the behavior sets and becomes extremely difficult to reverse. This is seen in substance abuse, various phobias and manias. I think the reason homosexuality gets a ‘pass’ despite its earlier identification as a mental illness, is that homosexuals have become very powerful in the media, films, the arts where other somewhat non-traditional lifestyles evoke little more than a yawn.

I don’t for a minute think that homosexuality is a “gift from God” given the misery this state creates among residents of the homosexual culture. I don’t think it’s genetic or fixed at birth. I think we can all remember being a small child and identifying strongly with our own sex, often thinking the opposite sex was disgusting, offensive, etc. I remember very close friends who held hands, walked around with arms entwined, slept in the same bed without the slightest sexuality being attributed to their behavior. I think this same gender identification with children is a natural protective state to keep them from shall we say exploring and experimenting before puberty.

Homosexuals want so much to be accepted as having a life that is equivalent in every way to heterosexuals that they turn into pretzels trying to justify an unchangeable sexual orientation as normal. Until there is evidence instead of just hopes and self fulfilling prophecy I’ll stay in the camp of the skeptics.

Lisa
 
wynnejj said:
LOL at the idea that nobody would choose to be gay.

In my circle of friends & family:
  1. Married woman has four children, husband dies, takes up relationship with female co-worker.
  2. Men (2), both married with one wife & one child, mid-life crisis, then sex change operations.
ROFL.
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Gee now that you mention it…along with my show horse industry examples:

Cousin, total Boy Scout type, marries high school sweetheart. They have two boys, buy a home, a boat and live the American Dream. He comes home one day and tells his wife he’s gay and wants a divorce.

Co-worker’s mom, a nurse, had traditional marriage, four kids, decides one day she’s a Lesbian and divorces hubby, moves in with another female nurse and abandons family

Dear friend from college, married 20 plus years to engineer, said their marital life was amazing, calls in tears one day. Husband has decided he’s a woman and has a sex change operation.

This kind of story is not that uncommon folks. I guess the moral of the story is that if someone claims they were hard wired from birth to be homosexual, it sure took a long time to figure out…

Lisa
 
vsedriver said:
why do people act like life long celibacy is a fate worse than death? And what makes people think that if they don’t marry they will suffer from loneliness? I am living a celibate life, I have friends, and family. My life is not awful just because I am following Church teaching.
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The concept of never being with someone truly special to you, to never have someone to share your struggles with seems a bleak future to some people.
 
LisaA said:
Gee now that you mention it…along with my show horse industry examples:

Cousin, total Boy Scout type, marries high school sweetheart. They have two boys, buy a home, a boat and live the American Dream. He comes home one day and tells his wife he’s gay and wants a divorce.

Co-worker’s mom, a nurse, had traditional marriage, four kids, decides one day she’s a Lesbian and divorces hubby, moves in with another female nurse and abandons family

Dear friend from college, married 20 plus years to engineer, said their marital life was amazing, calls in tears one day. Husband has decided he’s a woman and has a sex change operation.

This kind of story is not that uncommon folks. I guess the moral of the story is that if someone claims they were hard wired from birth to be homosexual, it sure took a long time to figure out…

Lisa
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So should folks bas their opinions on the development and nature of sexual orientation on your annecdotal evidence "I knew this guy. . . . " or acknowlege the reams of valid and reliable research based findings- not to mention the collective agreement of all major professional licensing boards in the US and abroad?
 
ringil said:
So should folks bas their opinions on the development and nature of sexual orientation on your annecdotal evidence "I knew this guy. . . . " or acknowlege the reams of valid and reliable research based findings- not to mention the collective agreement of all major professional licensing boards in the US and abroad?
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I have no idea what you mean about “reams of valid and reliable research…” So there is research claiming sexuality is a gift from God? Sounds interesting.

As to my anecdotal evidence, I’ve seen enough people go through a change in sexual orientation to be skeptical that it’s fixed by genetics at birth and thus neither cultural nor environmental nor familial influence has anything to do with it.

The irony about the “unchanging” nature of sexuality advocates is that they completely accept the idea that by surgical means, hormones and plastic surgery you can make a man a woman or a woman a man…nothwithstanding that you cannot change two X chromosomes into an XY no matter how talented you are with a scalpel.

If you have research that defnitively proves sexual orientation is genetic, fixed at birth and impossible to change I’d love to see it. Until then, to paraphrase one of the Three Stooges, I’ll believe what I see with my own eyes.

Lisa
 
The_Rock said:
lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/1961/13/61130
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Thank you for the link. It’s obvious that politics had more to do with removing homosexuality from the DSM than any clinical data. I the following was particularly notable. Regardless of your opinion on the subject, the facts are conclusive that homosexuality leads to more health problems and a shorter lifespan than normal heterosexuality.

Secondly, there are unambiguous reasons to think that homosexuality per se does cause “generalized impairment in social effectiveness or functioning.” If in fact it is a lethal addiction, and the many studies documenting the behavior patterns of homosexuals are correct (that show compulsive patterns of promiscuity, anonymous sex, sex for money, sex in public places, sex with minors, concomitant drug and alcohol abuse, depression, suicide), for the APA to argue that these features do not constitute an “impairment of social effectiveness or functioning,” stretches the boundaries of plausibility. To argue that early death does not constitute an “impairment of social effectiveness or functioning” is absurd.

**The APA claims its mission is “to promote a bio-psycho-social approach to understanding and caring for patients, in all aspects of health care, including illness prevention” (APA’s Stategic Goals Statement). Thus the APA violates its own goals then when it ignores evidence that homosexuality can in many cases be prevented, and denies reorientation therapy to those who want it.

A careful reading of the articles opposing reorientation therapy reveals their authors’ rationale that they find such therapy to be “oppressive” to those who do not want therapy.[xxii]

What if this logic was applied to any other lethal illness? What if doctors said, “We refuse to treat cancer (or, say, alcoholism) because we only achieve a 50% cure rate—and many people who don’t want to be cured find it oppressive that we do cure the others?” Why wouldn’t the lawsuits for malpractice be filed?**

Given that members of the APA are medical doctors, overall health rather than political correctness should be paramount.

Lisa
 
Dakota_Roberts said:
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/239/d/f/forever_alone_by_foreveraloneplz.png

The concept of never being with someone truly special to you, to never have someone to share your struggles with seems a bleak future to some people.
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And there are many people out there who know that the likelihood of their getting married is very low, like handicapped people, troubled people, etc. What are we to do about them? Force someone to marry them if they want to marry?

Just because something has or is suspected to have an outcome someone feels uncomfortable with doesn’t mean that we must “fix” the problem. We cannot “fix” the problem of homosexual behavior’s being inherently immoral by saying that it is all right, and that they can “marry.”
 
pepipop said:
He is on a TV chat show, at the moment, in Ireland and has not answered the question directly, but it would seem he is definately not a priest.

He mentioned that Cardinal Ratzinger said in the '80’s that “homosexuals were disordered and their love evil.”
Does anyone know if this is true, I cannot find a reference to it on the web.

In addition he said that one cardinal/bishop said IN THE '70’s/80’s that AIDS was the result of a disordered act of nature (or words to that effect), i.e. in other words he was saying that the CC has treated homosexuals, dreadfully.
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Fortunately, I was able to find the reference regarding C Ratzinger, which needless to say was taken totally out of context, as below.

It’s astonishing how much press coverage this ‘gay’ priest has received over the past two weeks before his book release. It was so apparent and cringingly embarrassing, last night, that he is NOT a priest and (I actually felt sorry for him) that he is totally deranged. He made comments that when he was younger he loved the ‘theatrics’ of the CC and the reason he became a priest.

I’d say if anything he did the CC a lot of good last night, wrt to the naysayers. I do not know who would buy his book, as it has no relevance to anything in relation to the CC and is a story of a gay man who’s younger husband really loved him at first sight - even though he was an ‘older’ man - (his words and was the only time he became animated about his life). His entire interview revolved around being gay, the CC really had nothing to do with his life, as such.

He was asked 'why would he wish to be associated with a religion/organisation that was so opposed to his lifestyle and views - to which he answered 'you need to take a stand against bias within the organisation (or words to that effect), it was really all very pathetic.

However, it does show the anti-catholic bias of the media that they will support anything/anybody that is against the CC, any chance they get.

*Homosexuality and LGBT rights
See also: Homosexuality and Roman Catholicism
*
*LGBT rights advocates widely criticized his 1986 letter to the Bishops of the Church, On the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons, in which he stated that “although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.” However, then Cardinal Ratzinger also said: “It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs.”

In a separate letter dated September 30, 1985, Ratzinger reprimanded Seattle Archbishop Raymond Hunthausen for his unorthodox views on women, homosexuals, and doctrinal issues, stating, "The Archdiocese should withdraw all support from any group, which does not unequivocally accept the teaching of the Magisterium concerning the intrinsic evil of homosexual activity. " Archbishop Hunthausen was temporarily relieved of his authority.[41*
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology_of_Pope_Benedict_XVI*
 
ringil said:
So should folks bas their opinions on the development and nature of sexual orientation on your annecdotal evidence "I knew this guy. . . . " or acknowlege the reams of valid and reliable research based findings- not to mention the collective agreement of all major professional licensing boards in the US and abroad?
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The anecdotal information is sufficient empirical evidence to support the claim that nobody would choose to be gay. This is a theory whose outcome can be shown over and over again which is the stuff of science. If you’re contention is that this certainly does not prove that nobody is hard-wired to be gay from birth, you certainly are correct. However, I’m not aware of a consensus of scientific studies & opinion on the subject. Feel free to educate me beyond the anecdotal.
 
pepipop said:
irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0512/1224315958228.html

Why is this man still a priest?
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He would have to be defrocked if he were celebrating the sacraments. I don’t get the impression that he is doing that. I suppose that being defrocked would be similar to a declared excommunication. Isn’t it primarily to avoid scandal on behalf of the sacraments? Isn’t it always once a priest always a priest unless the vows were made invalidly?
 
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