'Sexy' Vatican video hits sour note in attempt to include women

[sttcatherinefan]

No, he would not. That is your rather singular opinion. It is quite clear that you are very prejudicial on this matter.

I’ve worked in corporate America for over ten years and have taken training classes about sexual harassment in the workforce and can guarantee you that a CEO who called female employees strawberries or said that a female VP’s ability to be a mother provides her with special gentleness or tenderness would get in trouble.

Here is what happened to the Microsoft CEO below and what he said strikes me as much less offensive than calling women strawberries.

techtimes.com/articles/17680/20141011/microsoft-ceo-sexist-comment-about-womens-pay-reflects-bigger-problem-in-tech-industry-gender-bias.htm

 

[pnewton]

techtimes.com/articles/17680/20141011/microsoft-ceo-sexist-comment-about-womens-pay-reflects-bigger-problem-in-tech-industry-gender-bias.htm

Santya Nadella was not forced to resign nor undergo sensitivity training. He was apologized. The Holy Father has never suggested that in the workplace women should be treated as anything less than equals, and surely not that they should nor receive promotions or equal pay. This example is apples and strawberries.

I only have had one complaint against me in three decades. Fortunately the man in charge of investigating complaints was present when the woman in question came in and started availing herself of my office in a way I consider presumptuous before I told her to stop and leave. I was accused of treating her differently because she was a woman. It took little effort to show that there are some boundaries I apply to all. She resigned a couple of months later. In the real world, it is critical that all try to show respect for other, not just men. Tolerance is needed for all. In fact, tolerance is only truly tolerant when we do disagree.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

In the real world, it is critical that all try to show respect for other, not just men. Tolerance is needed for all. In fact, tolerance is only truly tolerant when we do disagree.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

Santya Nadella was not forced to resign nor undergo sensitivity training. He was apologized. The Holy Father has never suggested that in the workplace women should be treated as anything less than equals, and surely not that they should nor receive promotions or equal pay. This example is apples and strawberries.

I only have had one complaint against me in three decades. Fortunately the man in charge of investigating complaints was present when the woman in question came in and started availing herself of my office in a way I consider presumptuous before I told her to stop and leave. I was accused of treating her differently because she was a woman. It took little effort to show that there are some boundaries I apply to all. She resigned a couple of months later. In the real world, it is critical that all try to show respect for other, not just men. Tolerance is needed for all. In fact, tolerance is only truly tolerant when we do disagree.

Pope Francis doesn’t see women as equals, at least not in the professional sense. He doesn’t seem to respect professional women as professionals who have something valuable to contribute because of their individual talents rather than just being women. I’ve gotten the “sweetie” treatment my entire life so I know what it is like to not be taken seriously as an adult professional. So I am pretty aware of the type of man who is condescending toward professional women.

And Francis already suggested a woman’s role is mainly in the home so I doubt that he be in favor of a promotion that caused to spend more time away from the home. And I doubt he cares about pay.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Pope Francis doesn’t see women as equals, at least not in the professional sense. He doesn’t seem to respect professional women as professionals who have something valuable to contribute because of their individual talents rather than just being women. I’ve gotten the “sweetie” treatment my entire life so I know what it is like to not be taken seriously as an adult professional. So I am pretty aware of the type of man who is condescending toward professional women.

And Francis already suggested a woman’s role is mainly in the home so I doubt that he be in favor of a promotion that caused to spend more time away from the home. And I doubt he cares about pay.

So you choose to complain about it rather than doing anything that might actually get through. That is essentially a vote for the status quo.

If you are convinced that he’s hopelessly misogynistic, and he will never change, and you aren’t going to do anything that could possibly even have a “win the lottery” chances of making a difference – then you are just contributing to the noise and do your cause no good and might as well not say anything at all.

But I do understand it’s “safer” and “easier” to ridicule something, than it is to participate in trying to change it, and some times you just want to complain. I get that. But don’t use it as a platform to take away what faith chance of communication others have because you don’t think it’s sufficiently sincere. Not only does that do no good, IMO you are working against your own cause.

See if you can get your personal ego out of the situation. We are all maggots to somebody on this earth and I challenge you how much we’ve been put away because we are different. Have you ever been locked up against your will because a clerk started a rumor about something she didn’t know and it cost your entire career – a lucrative engineering career at Bell Labs? Have you ever been “banned” from parish property because the pastor didn’t like the truth you told him about what was going on behind his back and called a “loose cannon.” Have you ever had to pawn a tool to buy milk and gas for the kids to get them breakfast for tomorrow and a ride to school? How many times have you sat in a crowded smelly waiting room in social services because society seemed to have decided you will be “part of the problem” and not a damn thing you can do about it is going to change it? Have you ever been snubbed and even shunned by supposed “long time friends” in parish leadership positions because they don’t like your “state of mind” and wish you would just go away?

Yeah go ahead and play the victim. I can tell you exactly where that will get you. Nowhere. At least in your case they aren’t throwing you in a cage for being short.

 

[Estevao]

I guarantee that people who say that the Catholic Church is run by men haven’t been to church since they were teenagers and their parents forced them to go. It bespeaks a total ignorance of parish life, instead viewing things through the eyes of secular media and secular teachers and friends.

Pope Francis’ traditional views on gender are one of the great points of his papacy. Feminism is a satanic ideology one of whose fundamental pillars is murdering unborn children, I really am proud that Pope Francis doesn’t give it any respect.

 

[pnewton]

Pope Francis doesn’t see women as equals, at least not in the professional sense. He doesn’t seem to respect professional women as professionals who have something valuable to contribute because of their individual talents rather than just being women.

As pretty much everyone here disagrees with you, there is more than just a possibility that there is more than one interpretation. Therefore, to avoid rash judgment, the catechism explains:

2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

I think you have a crystal ball into the hearts of others tainted with your own emotions and experience.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

I guarantee that people who say that the Catholic Church is run by men haven’t been to church since they were teenagers and their parents forced them to go. It bespeaks a total ignorance of parish life, instead viewing things through the eyes of secular media and secular teachers and friends.

So the fact that women do the grunt work in the parish is supposed to make me happy? And it certainly varies by dioceses how women are treated.

Pope Francis’ traditional views on gender are one of the great points of his papacy. Feminism is a satanic ideology one of whose fundamental pillars is murdering unborn children, I really am proud that Pope Francis doesn’t give it any respect.

I know. Feminism is such a satanic ideology. I hate the fact that rather than being a submissive housewife, I can be a career professional. I hate the fact that there are laws for equal pay and against gender discrimination. I hate the fact that I had equal access to sports as a child and to upper level math and science classes unlike my aunts who didn’t have access to physics and calculus at the Catholic girls’ high school they attended in the 1970s. I hate laws against domestic violence and sexual harassment.

You can disagree with them on abortion and still consider yourself a feminist.

And I thankful that Francis appointed Cupich as our Chicago archbishop as unlike Francis himself who only considers women fluffy mommies and “sweeties,” Cupich actually is in favor of women’s inclusion in the Church. It is my understanding that he insists on having altar girls at his Masses.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

So the fact that women do the grunt work in the parish is supposed to make me happy? And it certainly varies by dioceses how women are treated.

I don’t think anything in this world short of Jesus’s second coming, would make you happy. And I’m not even sure that would, especially if the horse He happens to ride in on is female.

I know. Feminism is such a satanic ideology. I hate the fact that rather than being a submissive housewife, I can be a career professional. I hate the fact that there are laws for equal pay and against gender discrimination. I hate the fact that I had equal access to sports as a child and to upper level math and science classes unlike my aunts who didn’t have access to physics and calculus at the Catholic girls’ high school they attended in the 1970s. I hate laws against domestic violence and sexual harassment.

I hate sarcasm posing as logic, especially when it’s lengthy and tiresome. :takethat:

Unless I’m posting it, of course. :getholy:

And I thankful that Francis appointed Cupich as our Chicago archbishop as unlike Francis himself who only considers women fluffy mommies and “sweeties,” Cupich actually is in favor of women’s inclusion in the Church. It is my understanding that he insists on having altar girls at his Masses.

Well gosh it turns out pope Francis has done your feminism a favor. He’s appointing people to your liking. :bigyikes:

Or wait no that can’t be… this man who hates women, appointing a huge archdiocese to a man sensitive to women? Are you kidding me? And you’re saying all this jack about him?

Oh yeah; it was probably was an accident; I’m sure he meant for you to be miserable, and just totally failed this time. I think it’s funny that you hate what Francis says about women, but like that he appoints pro-women bishops. Yeah that’s it. :newidea:

I think you’re actually a lot more logical than you’re letting on.

MS

 

[pnewton]

It has been widely reported that, when he was still the cardinal archbishop of Buenos Aires, the future Pope Francis washed the feet of women during the Mass of the Lord’s Supper.

Now he has done so as pope.

ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/how-should-we-understand-pope-francis-washing-womens-feet/

 

[sttcatherinefan]

I don’t think anything in this world short of Jesus’s second coming, would make you happy. And I’m not even sure that would, especially if the horse He happens to ride in on is female.

I’d be happy if people don’t try to make file sorting and linen cleaning into some pro-woman advancement.

I hate sarcasm posing as logic, especially when it’s lengthy and tiresome. :takethat:

Unless I’m posting it, of course. :getholy:

What I dislike is men arguing that the advancements made by women are satanic. I think that it is satanic to keep women submissive second class citizens.

Well gosh it turns out pope Francis has done your feminism a favor. He’s appointing people to your liking. :bigyikes:

Or wait no that can’t be… this man who hates women, appointing a huge archdiocese to a man sensitive to women? Are you kidding me? And you’re saying all this jack about him?

Oh yeah; it was probably was an accident; I’m sure he meant for you to be miserable, and just totally failed this time. I think it’s funny that you hate what Francis says about women, but like that he appoints pro-women bishops. Yeah that’s it. :newidea:

I think you’re actually a lot more logical than you’re letting on.

MS

I don’t think that Cupich’s sensitivity toward women was a factor in Francis’ appointment. It is my understanding that Cupich has longstanding ties to the Jesuits, including America magazine, and he is a social justice type. The fact that Cupich is also pro-woman is a pleasant surprise.

 

[ProVobis]

The fact that Cupich is also pro-woman is a pleasant surprise.

Maybe so, but those poor nuns over on Central there who cater to the homeless, don’t see one penny from the archdiocese.

 

[Denise1957]

So weird.
I wouldn’t call it sexy as much as…silly. It looks like a pop video circa 1962.

.

Pretty much my take on it, too. Just silly. The woman looks like someone in her 30’s who is trying to act young, cool, and hip, which is probably the look they (the makers and promoters of it) were going for.

That it does not resonate at all with a lot of Catholics (even women) seems to be lost on the makers and promoters of the video. I thumbed it down when it first appeared on youtube. I’m glad I’m not the only one who doesn’t like it.

 

[Sarabande]

Pretty much my take on it, too. Just silly. The woman looks like someone in her 30’s who is trying to act young, cool, and hip, which is probably the look they (the makers and promoters of it) were going for.

That it does not resonate at all with a lot of Catholics (even women) seems to be lost on the makers and promoters of the video. I thumbed it down when it first appeared on youtube. I’m glad I’m not the only one who doesn’t like it.

Actually, the actress is in her 50s. (She probably would be very happy to hear that you thought she was in her 30s. lol!) That’s why I don’t understand why anyone would say she was “sexy”. She’s a good-looking 50+ year-old woman. She wasn’t even acting sexy and wore a baggy top. The commercial, itself, looked like a typical Italian commercial I’d see when I was studying and performing over there. I only saw the Italian version and I didn’t think it looked like she was trying to look young and hip. If that’s what they were going for, they would have gone for a woman actually in her 20s or 30s. Not a much older woman.

 

[Denise1957]

Actually, the actress is in her 50s. (She probably would be very happy to hear that you thought she was in her 30s. lol!) That’s why I don’t understand why anyone would say she was “sexy”. She’s a good-looking 50+ year-old woman. She wasn’t even acting sexy and wore a baggy top. The commercial, itself, looked like a typical Italian commercial I’d see when I was studying and performing over there. I only saw the Italian version and I didn’t think it looked like she was trying to look young and hip. If that’s what they were going for, they would have gone for a woman actually in her 20s or 30s. Not a much older woman.

Since the actress is in her 50’s, then she definitely wasn’t acting her age. That’s why I thought she was younger. It’s interesting that the video looks like a typical Italian commercial. I assume that typical Italian commercials are secular and worldly.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

I’d be happy if people don’t try to make file sorting and linen cleaning into some pro-woman advancement.

If my doctor would ok it, I would gladly take a job doing either. But I can’t, and if I even try I will lose my disability and Medicare so you’re talking to the wrong person if you want sympathy for some woman who has those jobs. I have less experience at feminism, than at raising a family with six children when I had a severe mental disability during their formative years. One got a scholarship for showing that despite having a psychotic father and living below the poverty level she was still able to graduate cum laude. So you work with what you have. You can gripe and moan all day about how you don’t like this job because it’s not prestigious enough well guess what only because I had inroads, at least I could work flipping pizza for 12 hours a week without losing my disability but that only lasted a couple years. And I have a master’s degree in engineering so I was a “producer” before I became a social leper.

So go find a woman who had a job doing dry cleaning and I would love to have that job if I could. No pity from me. :whackadoo:

What I dislike is men arguing that the advancements made by women are satanic. I think that it is satanic to keep women submissive second class citizens.

I can see your point on that. I hope I didn’t come across as agreeing with the poster who brought that into it, although I don’t wish to get involved between the two of you.

Personally I think that calling stuff satanic is used in a very many places where it really doesn’t apply, and I don’t think it was helpful to you this situation. So I so I can see your pain here.

I don’t think that Cupich’s sensitivity toward women was a factor in Francis’ appointment. It is my understanding that Cupich has longstanding ties to the Jesuits, including America magazine, and he is a social justice type. The fact that Cupich is also pro-woman is a pleasant surprise.

Whatever it is, if you like him, then I’m happy for you. Sincerely.

Actually, the actress is in her 50s. (She probably would be very happy to hear that you thought she was in her 30s. lol!) That’s why I don’t understand why anyone would say she was “sexy”. She’s a good-looking 50+ year-old woman. She wasn’t even acting sexy and wore a baggy top. The commercial, itself, looked like a typical Italian commercial I’d see when I was studying and performing over there. I only saw the Italian version and I didn’t think it looked like she was trying to look young and hip. If that’s what they were going for, they would have gone for a woman actually in her 20s or 30s. Not a much older woman.

Thank you for that perspective because it makes sense to me. I think if I were to seek out a model to play a “sexy Italian model” they probably wouldn’t have gone with one so old, and certain not so thoroughly dressed. A Google image search can confirm that in about three seconds.

MS

 

[Sarabande]

Since the actress is in her 50’s, then she definitely wasn’t acting her age. That’s why I thought she was younger. It’s interesting that the video looks like a typical Italian commercial. I assume that typical Italian commercials are secular and worldly.

Typical, meaning, the style and production. Also, in one of the towns I lived in, our Italian classes took place in public grade school which was closed for the summer. The artwork of the kids were still up. I was shocked to see it all centered around stories from the Bible… especially a lot of crucifixion scenes and lines from the Bible, pictures of the rosary, etc… So, while they might be “secular” as a country, there seems to be a lot of mixing of Catholicism in the secular institutions.

 

[Sarabande]

Since the actress is in her 50’s, then she definitely wasn’t acting her age. That’s why I thought she was younger. It’s interesting that the video looks like a typical Italian commercial. I assume that typical Italian commercials are secular and worldly.

Forgot to add… The actress actually was acting her age compared to the women I met and got to know in Italy. In fact, a lot of the older Italian women have a young, yet sometimes sophisticated air to them. They are also what I consider “spicy” in their attitude. Some might even dress with tighter clothes and much more fashionable and expensive attire than what you saw in the commercial. (I basically couldn’t afford anything while I was there because most of it is high end clothing.) On the other end, think, going to the beach and seeing 70+ year old women wearing string bikinis and not thinking twice about what their bodies might look like. I’m in my 30s and I was the only one wearing a modest tankini. lol! I also dressed kind of “frumpy-looking” compared to the way most of the women there from young to old dress.

Maybe I’m looking at that commercial from a more cultural perspective, at least from my experiences living and studying there. I LOVED Italy and the people there, so anything I say is to not disparage their culture.

 

[Sarabande]

Thank you for that perspective because it makes sense to me. I think if I were to seek out a model to play a “sexy Italian model” they probably wouldn’t have gone with one so old, and certain not so thoroughly dressed. A Google image search can confirm that in about three seconds.

MS

You’re welcome. As I mentioned in my other post, I think I might have looked at the video differently because I was watching it in Italian and viewing it on a cultural level through my experiences while in Italy and people I got to know while there. I don’t know how other Italians took the commercial, but I imagine it might have been different from how Americans took it. As an American, if I pretended to have never travelled over there and have never gotten to know the culture, I think I probably would have viewed it in a similar way as some of the other people on this thread. BUT, again, it is only based on my experiences. I didn’t get to know all of Italy and everyone there. I primarily lived and immersed myself in two towns with some excursions in other parts of the country, but that is all.

 

[Denise1957]

Forgot to add… The actress actually was acting her age compared to the women I met and got to know in Italy. In fact, a lot of the older Italian women have a young, yet sometimes sophisticated air to them. They are also what I consider “spicy” in their attitude. Some might even dress with tighter clothes and much more fashionable and expensive attire than what you saw in the commercial. (I basically couldn’t afford anything while I was there because most of it is high end clothing.) On the other end, think, going to the beach and seeing 70+ year old women wearing string bikinis and not thinking twice about what their bodies might look like. I’m in my 30s and I was the only one wearing a modest tankini. lol! I also dressed kind of “frumpy-looking” compared to the way most of the women there from young to old dress.

Maybe I’m looking at that commercial from a more cultural perspective, at least from my experiences living and studying there. I LOVED Italy and the people there, so anything I say is to not disparage their culture.

I appreciate your perspective, since you have lived in Italy. It seems a very modern culture, compared to what I thought it was. Glad that you wear a modest swimsuit (so do I when I swim), but the thought of 70+ women at the beach in Italy wearing string bikinis is a little scary.

The woman in the video is old enough to be a grandmother. As a cultural aside, I spent a lot of time with my own grandmothers, and they sure didn’t dress and act like that. Okay, one was raised as a Quaker, but still. For all I know, the woman in the video is a devout Catholic, and she was only doing what she was told by the producers of the video. But she wasn’t representing Catholicism in an appropriate manner. Just my opinion.

It’s good to know, though, that there are still Catholic elements in the culture there, such as what you mentioned about the pictures in the school. We don’t really have that here in the U.S., unfortunately.