SF archbishop: Gender transitions are a threat to faith

[gilliam]

NEW YORK — Amid the national buzz over transgender celebrity Caitlyn (formerly Bruce) Jenner revealing her new female identity, a leading culture warrior in the Catholic hierarchy has denounced the spread of “gender ideology” and warned that it threatens the very foundation of the Church’s faith.

“The clear biological fact is that a human being is born either male or female,” Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone of San Francisco said at the start of an address in Manhattan Wednesday at a conference aimed at promoting an older form of the Mass in Latin.

“Yet now we have the idea gaining acceptance that biological sex and one’s personal gender identity can be at variance with each other, with more and more gender identities being invented,” said Cordileone, who is the point man in the battle against gay marriage for the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

cruxnow.com/life/2015/06/03/sf-archbishop-gender-transitions-are-a-threat-to-faith/

 

[MarcoPolo]

Anyone else notice how the Church is getting to be science’s only ally anymore? Science says it’s a man. Secularism says it’s up for grabs. Science says it’s a human being. Secularists say it’s tissue blob.

 

[johnnyc176]

God Bless Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone.

Related article also today from Msgr. Charles Pope…

blog.adw.org/2015/06/the-body-god-gave-us-doesnt-lie-a-meditation-on-the-sexual-confusion-of-our-day/

 

[JackVk]

Anyone else notice how the Church is getting to be science’s only ally anymore? Science says it’s a man. Secularism says it’s up for grabs. Science says it’s a human being. Secularists say it’s tissue blob.

If a “sex change” operation really does change sex, then why not species change? People do it. By the logic of the transgenderists, I can “species change” myself into a lion and then commit cannibalism, because hey, who says I have to be human, much less act like one?

 

[Hans_W]

Anyone else notice how the Church is getting to be science’s only ally anymore? Science says it’s a man. Secularism says it’s up for grabs. Science says it’s a human being. Secularists say it’s tissue blob.

Lots of people are born where the gender is not clear-cut.

To a later poster: there is a bit more of a difference between a human and a lion.

 

[OraLabora]

“The clear biological fact is that a human being is born either male or female,”

Well, not always. There are medically documented cases of intersex conditions. Some are hormonal (e.g. androgen insensitivity syndrome). Others are genetic (true hermaphrodites such as an extra X chromosome).

Whether transsexualism has some sort of medical/hormonal basis remains to be seen. There is some evidence that transsexuals while genetically male or female, are born with the brain structures similar to those of the opposite sex.

Whether transition is an appropriate treatment or not is certainly debatable, but certainly the Church should wait until we understand the science better before making such bold statements.

The fact is we live in a fallen world and humans are born with all sorts of medical and genetic defects (I myself have a hereditary condition, hemochromatosis), and sexuality and gender are not immune to these sorts of problems. They remain huge crosses to bear and we need to find charitable means of ministering to these unfortunate souls.

 

[shockerfan]

Well, not always. There are medically documented cases of intersex conditions. Some are hormonal (e.g. androgen insensitivity syndrome). Others are genetic (true hermaphrodites such as an extra X chromosome).

Whether transsexualism has some sort of medical/hormonal basis remains to be seen. There is some evidence that transsexuals while genetically male or female, are born with the brain structures similar to those of the opposite sex.

Whether transition is an appropriate treatment or not is certainly debatable, but certainly the Church should wait until we understand the science better before making such bold statements.

The fact is we live in a fallen world and humans are born with all sorts of medical and genetic defects (I myself have a hereditary condition, hemochromatosis), and sexuality and gender are not immune to these sorts of problems. They remain huge crosses to bear and we need to find charitable means of ministering to these unfortunate souls.

The Bishop is right in a general sense. The vast majority of all humans born have either XX or XY (but not all, I agree).

It certainly is confusing to children, to say the least, that we should call Caitlyn Jenner a “woman”, and also use the same term for actual biological mothers. Calling Caitlyn Jenner a woman seems to me to be the “bolder” statement.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Lots of people are born where the gender is not clear-cut.

Not really, but even if there were, that’s irrelevant to the point made in this case and most others.

To a later poster: there is a bit more of a difference between a human and a lion.

Is there a line of demarcation you could logically tell us is the cutoff you can no longer change to?

 

[OraLabora]

The Bishop is right in a general sense. The vast majority of all humans born have either XX or XY (but not all, I agree).

It certainly is confusing to children, to say the least, that we should call Caitlyn Jenner a “woman”, and also use the same term for actual biological mothers. Calling Caitlyn Jenner a woman seems to me to be the “bolder” statement.

What would you call a genetic woman who was not a biological mother???

What about Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome? These people are born genetically male (XY), have testes instead of ovaries, but externally are completely female in appearance. Usually the syndrome is detected when menstruation fails to develop. They have female gender identity, and generally are heterosexual females and are thus raised as girls/women in spite of being genetically male. It occurs between 1/20,000 and 1/99,000 live male births.

orpha.net/consor4.01/www/cgi-bin/OC_Exp.php?lng=EN&Expert=99429

 

[Hans_W]

Not really, but even if there were, that’s irrelevant to the point made in this case and most others.

There are cases when people are born without a clear-cut male/female distinction, or some other medical condition, as pointed out by other posters as well. I have seen figures between 0.1 and 0.3%. Looks low, but in your country alone the numbers would be a few 100,000 people. Most will suffer quietly and bear their cross, as one poster put it. Some are coming out and go public, same as with the gay/lesbian issue.

Is there a line of demarcation you could logically tell us is the cutoff you can no longer change to?

I am not a biologist, but with current state of science and technology I don’t think that you can even change a European into an Asian. So the example of a lion is a bit farfetched.

 

[MonikaBarbara]

Some of you people are scaring me with your answers. Maybe I am misreading them or something, but some of you seem to be almost defending Bruce’s decision.

Of course, if someone has Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome or another illness where their body is not a perfect XX or XY match that is one thing, because the sex really is not clear-cut. In that case it makes sense for someone to try to figure out whether they are more woman or man and try to live accordingly.

But for Bruce Jenner? Unless I’m missing something he is perfectly XY, and has just decided that he rather be a woman. God made his body perfectly…the guy just has some mental issues which he should deal with, and self-mutilation and cross-dressing is not the way to go. God does not make mistakes. Isn’t that like point number one of Christianity?

 

[OraLabora]

Unless I’m missing something he is perfectly XY, and has just decided that he rather be a woman.

It’s not that simple. Assuming he is being cared for by reputable physicians, there are standards of care and psychiatric analysis involved. He didn’t just “decide he’d rather be a woman”, and a surgeon just didn’t take his word for it and proceed to transform him into the appearance of a woman.

In a way it’s like being homosexual. It isn’t something someone “chooses”.

How one deals with the disorder is another matter, but it really is a disorder.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Bruce Jenner needs treatment for HIS mental illness, not publicity and accolades that feed into his mental illness. May God bless him and heal him.

 

[OraLabora]

Bruce Jenner needs treatment for HIS mental illness, not publicity and accolades that feed into his mental illness. May God bless him and heal him.

I agree, the media circus that this has turned into is most unfortunate, and will do nothing to help Jenner in the long run.

My feeling is that when his 15 minutes of transgender fame are over, and the media crowd have moved onto the next issue du jour, and he is forgotten, Jenner will be in for a big comedown and it won’t be pretty. My prayers are with him.

 

[shockerfan]

What would you call a genetic woman who was not a biological mother???

What about Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome? These people are born genetically male (XY), have testes instead of ovaries, but externally are completely female in appearance. Usually the syndrome is detected when menstruation fails to develop. They have female gender identity, and generally are heterosexual females and are thus raised as girls/women in spite of being genetically male. It occurs between 1/20,000 and 1/99,000 live male births.

orpha.net/consor4.01/www/cgi-bin/OC_Exp.php?lng=EN&Expert=99429

You’re missing my point. To be more clear…surgically altering your body and giving yourself a feminine name does not make you a woman.

My other point stands as well: The bishop was correct in a general sense.

 

[OraLabora]

There is an article in today’s main French-language Montreal daily about the flip side of all this Caitlyn/Bruce Jenner media circus.

It’s the story of a male-to-female transsexual who does not command the media attention of a Jenner. She was a successful scriptwriter that earned six figures a year (which pales compared to what Jenner probably earns just from income on his wealth alone). When she first came out some years ago, the trendy set was full of encouragement.

But then the phone calls stopped and she now lives on social assistance because she can’t get gigs anymore. She cannot afford breast implants or electrolysis; the state insurance only pays for hormones and genital surgery. She’s overweight. She has to shave her beard twice a day and use heavy makeup to hide it in between shaves. Definitely no Caitlyn Jenner glamour girl.

That’s the gritty side of this condition. Prejudice, loss of friends and family, looking like a weird guy dressed as a woman. The sad reality is that Jenner may encourage people that will end up just like this. Encouraging another celebrity who has tons of cash to buy a made-in-Holllywood body is one thing. But most folks don’t have those kinds of resources.

Not to say that all do end up like this. For one, just like with gays, prejudice has to stop, and some have surmounted that hurdle. But not all.

As Catholics that doesn’t mean we have to be mean, uncharitable, or ostracize the transgendered. In fact we must be the exact opposite, to paraphrase Saint Benedict, we have to be able to look past the appearances and see Christ Himself imprinted on their souls.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

White it’s true that “gender activists” are in fact inventing numerous variations on what was once a simple either/or environment, I thnk the archbishop’s comments just add more visibility and overstatement to a situation that 99.98% of people just regard as a sad curiosity. What Jenner did challenges biology and common sense, not the Faith. Let’s not loose sight of the fact that as part of the unspeakably awful Kardashian publicity machine, Jenner has his own “reality TV show” lined up.

 

[eightydeuce82]

White it’s true that “gender activists” are in fact inventing numerous variations on what was once a simple either/or environment, I thnk the archbishop’s comments just add more visibility and overstatement to a situation that 99.98% of people just regard as a sad curiosity. What Jenner did challenges biology and common sense, not the Faith. Let’s not loose sight of the fact that as part of the unspeakably awful Kardashian publicity machine, Jenner has his own “reality TV show” lined up.

It jeopardizes the faith when society accepts things and promotes things that are wrong publically. this effects our children and the future. At one time homosexual behavior was shunned, so was straight public displays of sex, abortion was illegal and many other things. How did it become acceptable and common? Just the same way this is unfolding. It was the people who just rolled over and said “above all lets be charitable” which amounted to a whole lot of nothing. I amounted to a whole lot of literally silence or turning the cheek. And there you have it now this stuff is main line and “normal” And its because we refused to turn over tables and shout what was wrong.

 

[Pulvis]

As our society spirals out of control, ask yourself several questions; who creates division? Who benefits from disunity? Who gains by deceiving souls into deadly behaviors?

 

[Hans_W]

… For one, just like with gays, prejudice has to stop, and some have surmounted that hurdle. But not all.

As Catholics that doesn’t mean we have to be mean, uncharitable, or ostracize the transgendered. In fact we must be the exact opposite, to paraphrase Saint Benedict, we have to be able to look past the appearances and see Christ Himself imprinted on their souls.

The problem with society today is that we go from one extreme to another.
When I grew up in Europe homosexuality was a crime. You got locked up for it. Transgender wasn’t heard of at all. Today these people are made heroes.