Shaking Hands

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I suffer from allergies during the “allergy” time of year and it causes me to cough. I am not contagious and don’t actually cough much at all…but I hate it when it comes time to shake hands. I am afraid someone might refuse if I have let out a little cough. . I would just as soon that we acknowledge those near us with a smile and a “Peace be with you.” On the reverse side…I was near a young family awhile back whose children were hacking and coughing and runny noses. When it came time for the handshake I cringed…but shook their hands anyway…so as not to hurt their feelings.

Last winter Father asked in the bulletin that we not shake his hand after Mass…and I completely understand…but why can’t we have the same extended to us parishioners?

:heart:Blyss

 

[cam100]

I wouldn’t mind the “shaking of hands” at the Sign of Peace if people could remember to keep it to their immediate neighbors and maintain decorum, quietly saying “Peace be with you.” You wouldn’t really have to shake hands, you could just say the “PBWY.” I’d much prefer it to be moved to after the Confietor.

I like this idea!

 

[thedavidwilson]

I don’t shake hands since I am kneeling at that time. You are suppose to kneel from the Sanctus until the Last Gospel, right?

 

[Maureen_Fiore]

I think if people are going to shake your hands and wish you peace then they should also do this outside of church as well. In my parish people just go into church and don’t even acknowlege you and yet during the sign of peace they are falling over pews just to shake your hand.

 

[TMC]

I think if people are going to shake your hands and wish you peace then they should also do this outside of church as well. In my parish people just go into church and don’t even acknowlege you and yet during the sign of peace they are falling over pews just to shake your hand.

LOL. I agree. Not a problem for us. My son complains about going to Mass not because he doesn’t like Mass, but because it takes us 20-30 min after Mass to get back to the car. Everyone hangs out outside and talks, including the priest. That’s also where most parish business gets done, CCD teachers recruited, server schedules traded, etc.

 

[otjm]

I have been surprised at the number of parishoners who have said that they joined our parish because they found the parish, and the parishoners individually, to be warm and welcoming.

The majority of people in our parish hold hands during the Our Father, but not all do, and I have never heard from anyone that they have felt put-upon by someone next to them.

Most people shake hands at the Kiss of Peace, with the words “Peace be with you” or something similar.

We also have a very active ministry to the poor - we have the “food closet” for the area, share in a ministry with other churches for a Sunday evening meal open to any and all (this is a suburban parish about 15 miles from Portland), have an active group working on Pro Life matters, and have had 24 hour Perpetual Adoration for something more than 10 years.

Frankly, I don’t have a dog in the fight; if Rome came out tomorrow and said that no one must hold hands, that would be fine; if they came out tomorrow and said just the opposite, that would be fine too, as it simply isn’t an issue. After 43 years of holding hands during the Our Father, I have yet to trace any cold or any other issue to having done so; nor have I ever met anyone who could do so. I just don’t buy the issue that it is a major source of illness to me or anyone I know.

But back to the first thing I mentioned - the general attitude of the parish that is very warm and welcoming. I have been to many parishes which are not particularly warm or welcoming; the majority of those parishes hold hands during the Our Father, and a few don’t. But none of them were particularly welcoming.

Given that something around 65% of Catholics do not attend Mass weekly, and that it is all too easy for some of the remainder to not do so either, how important is it that we be warm and welcoming? How well do parishes, which don’t hold hands, do at welcoming visiting Catholics to join the parish? How well do those that do hold hands do at welcoming visitors? Does either hand holding or not doing so have anything to do with how welcoming a parish is to non-members? And if not, then what does?

Mother Theresa held the hands of those dying from any number of a multitude of diseases. Holding hands during the Our Father is absolutely not obligatory and I would not say otherwise; but I wonder that if she could do that with someone dying of heaven knows what, how much charity it would take to hold the hand of the person next to you at Mass if they reached out? You don’t like it? I can understand; I don’t think that Mother Theresa liked holding the hand of the dying, either. Is everything we should or should not do at Mass dictated by what we like? Considering that the GIRM has no position of hands dictated at all - down by the side, held palms together with fingers interlaced, palms toghether fingers pointing up, orans, or holding your neighbor’s hand, and given that the GIRm has been re-written twice since hand holding started and Rome has seen fit to not address the issue, arguements as to what is right or wrong are only personal opinion.

What part does charity have in this?

 

[water]

When I was still in my country, we bound to each other. When I came here, I shake hands.

If one really means it when saying “Peace be with you”, then by whatever means it is beautiful and pleasing to God.

 

[homewardbound]

What part does charity have in this?

I agree with much of your post. But I think charity should go both ways. I do suffer when I am forced to interact with others. People have forced me to hold their hand and shake their hand at Mass. This can cause me to go into a panic attack. I, personally, cannot stand these practices. I go to Mass for God and God alone. I go to kneel and pray with my fellow brothers and sisters, not be social. Maybe that makes me cold or whatever, but I don’t care. I don’t see how its uncharitable of me to not want to be distracted from the beauty of the Mass just because someone wants to shake my hand, or hold it, when I’m trying to pray.

Maybe I’ll get over this someday. I hope so.

 

[water]

I agree with much of your post. But I think charity should go both ways. I do suffer when I am forced to interact with others. People have forced me to hold their hand and shake their hand at Mass. This can cause me to go into a panic attack. I, personally, cannot stand these practices. I go to Mass for God and God alone. I go to kneel and pray with my fellow brothers and sisters, not be social. Maybe that makes me cold or whatever, but I don’t care. I don’t see how its uncharitable of me to not want to be distracted from the beauty of the Mass just because someone wants to shake my hand, or hold it, when I’m trying to pray.

Maybe I’ll get over this someday. I hope so.

Maybe you don’t like the handshake. I honestly don’t like to handshake someone who just blew their nose - I want no germs.

You don’t like the handshake, but do you wish the Peace of God be with the person you are not going to handshake with?

Can we attend a mass “For God and God alone” without praying for anyone else?

 

[Ignatius2000]

You don’t like the handshake, but do you wish the Peace of God be with the person you are not going to handshake with?

This is a very good question. What exactly is a “sign” of peace? For that matter, what is the Christian ideal OF peace?

I like to think that the peace we strive for is nothing more than complete silence. Silence to be able to worship our Lord and to contemplate the mysteries of our faith–Monastic silence if you will. I’ve always found that type of silence in the presence of our Lord so immutably peaceful that I couldn’t willingly break the silence because of a total relaxation and surrender to our Lord through quiet contemplation.

If the above is the peace of which we are supposed to exchange a sign, then of course I wish it upon those whose hands I’m not going to shake! The question, for me, becomes a matter of how to deliver that wish to the people around me. I think that the only proper way is through more silence.

 

[homewardbound]

Maybe you don’t like the handshake. I honestly don’t like to handshake someone who just blew their nose - I want no germs.

You don’t like the handshake, but do you wish the Peace of God be with the person you are not going to handshake with?

Can we attend a mass “For God and God alone” without praying for anyone else?

I definitely wish peace of God for all around me at Mass. I think mainly my issue is psychological more than anything. Anxiety grips me in big crowds.

Often when I am praying I am praying for others, as well as myself. This issue is definitely one I am striving to find peace with.

 

[I_Believe]

I voted get rid of it, but it’s probably not going to be an issue for me since yesterday may well be the last Sunday NO I’ll ever attend. I’ve pretty much made up my mind to change parishes. I’m sick of seeing teens in football jerseys chit chatting and laughing during Communion, and their parents doing nothing to stop it.

Thankfully, we have St.Martin of Tours here in town, which offers the TLM on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday.

 

[otjm]

I agree with much of your post. But I think charity should go both ways. I do suffer when I am forced to interact with others. People have forced me to hold their hand and shake their hand at Mass. This can cause me to go into a panic attack. I, personally, cannot stand these practices. I go to Mass for God and God alone. I go to kneel and pray with my fellow brothers and sisters, not be social. Maybe that makes me cold or whatever, but I don’t care. I don’t see how its uncharitable of me to not want to be distracted from the beauty of the Mass just because someone wants to shake my hand, or hold it, when I’m trying to pray.

Maybe I’ll get over this someday. I hope so.

I do not disagree that charity goes both ways; however, it is also very possible to get into the postion that “I won’t be charitible until they are…”.

Athough I have not experienced the problem, I have a daughter who is prone to panic attacks, so I am not totaly unfamiliar with the issue. I would hope that some day you could overcome the problem - not so that you would hold hands with someone else, but so you would not be burdened with this problem.

Archbishop Chaput has spoken about hand holding, and the essence of his statement is that all should be free of criticism for either doing so or not doing so; no one should be forced in either direction.

Given that St Paul speaks at length concerning the Body of Christ, you might consider reading what he has had to say. One does not go to Mass to be with God alone; one goes to worship in community. I sincerely doubt that people hold hands to “be social”; and the purpose of the action at the Kiss of Peace is not a social action; it is an expression of sharing the Peace of Christ. The more Mediterranian one is, the easier it is to do so with a physical action; the more Germanic one is, the less easy a physical action is. It sometimes helps to keep that in mind. The fact that any individual, or even a group of individuals see either holding hands at the Our Father or shaking hands at the Kiss of Peace as social actions does not make them so; it only makes them so in those individuals’ perceptions.

There are any number of things that can cause us a distraction from what we perceive is where we want out attention to be. Some of those distractions are other human beings; and Christ calls us to charity to all, not necessarily undistracted attention to Him.

I go back to Mother Theresa; I can’t think of something more distracting than sitting with someone waiting for them to die. Try it some time. I have done it twice. I certainly found it distracting. Disconcerting. And any number of other adjectives I could drag up.

 

[freudmacher]

For those that don’t care for it, would you like it better if it were at the very end of the Introductory Rite?

I’d like to just keep it outside, before entering the church, when I run into people I know, or after church when I am standing there talking with people.

 

[freudmacher]

This might end up being a bunch of blah blah blah…

This is ONLY about holding hands during the Our Father.

catholic.com/newsletters/kke_060411.asp

ORIGINS OF HAND-HOLDING

The current issue of the “Adoremus Bulletin” says this in response to a query from a priest in the Bronx:

“No gesture for the people during the Lord’s Prayer is mentioned in the official documents. The late liturgist Fr. Robert Hovda promoted holding hands during this prayer, a practice he said originated in Alcoholics Anonymous. Some ‘charismatic’ groups took up the practice.”

My long-time sense had been that hand-holding at the Our Father was an intrusion from charismaticism, but I had not been aware of the possible connection with AA. If this is the real origin of the practice, it makes it doubly odd: first, because hand-holding intrudes a false air of chumminess into the Mass (and undercuts the immediately-following sign of peace), and second, because modifications to liturgical rites ought to arise organically and not be borrowed from secular self-help groups.

Periodically, on “Catholic Answers Live” I am asked about hand-holding during Mass and explain that it is contrary to the rubrics. Usually I get follow-up e-mails from people who say, “But it’s my favorite part of the Mass” or “We hold hands as a family, and it makes us feel closer.”

About the latter I think, “It’s good to feel close as a family, but you can hold hands at home or at the mall. The Mass has a formal structure that should be respected. That means you forgo certain things that you might do on the outside.”

About the former comment I think, “If this is the high point of the Mass for you, you need to take Remedial Mass 101. The Mass is not a social event. It is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary, and it is the loftiest form of prayer. It should be attended with appropriate solemnity.”

 

[freudmacher]

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/04/hand_holding_ru.html

A reader writes:

I have heard you and others say it is not written that holding hands is part of the proper way to say the Lords Prayer during the Liturgy. I have looked in the GIRM. No instructions are given as to posture, sitting, standing or holding hands. Is there another reference I can read about the church’s instructions?

The posture for this point in the liturgy is standing. This actually is found in the GIRM, but it isn’t as explicit as one might want. Here is the reference:

1. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, Orate, fraters (Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below.

They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

The part in blue is what governs the posture during the Lord’s Prayer. Since this occurs after the Orate, Fratres (“Pray, Bretheren”) it is in the part of Mass where standing is the default posture. There is no exception carved out for it in what follows, so standing is what is supposed to be happening for the Lord’s Prayer.

Standing means standing without doing anything fancy with your arms. It is distinct, for example, from the orans posture, which the priest uses when he stands and prays with arms outstretched. It is also distinct from the hand-holding posture.

The latter is not expressly forbidden in liturgical law because it is one of those “Please don’t eat the daisies” situations. The legislator (the pope) did not envision that anybody would try to alter the standing posture in this way. As a result, the practice is not expressly forbidden, the same way that standing on one foot and hopping up and down as an effort to get closer to God in heaven is not expressly forbidden.

In general what liturgical documents do is to say what people should be doing and not focus on what they should not be doing (though there are exceptions). To prevent “Please don’t eat the daisies” situations, what the law does is prohibit things that aren’t mentioned in the liturgical books. Here’s the basic rule:

Can. 846 §1. In celebrating the sacraments the liturgical books approved by competent authority are to be observed faithfully; accordingly, no one is to add, omit, or alter anything in them on one’s own authority.

Changing from standing to hand holding during the Lord’s Prayer would be an alteration or addition of something provided for in the liturgical books and thus would be at variance with the law.

 

[Ankabaranka_87]

I like the idea of shaking hands…although it is occassionally awkward…

part of christianity is community, what’s wrong with a little bit of interaction during mass (although i also dont like when people talk during other parts of the mass)?

although i like the approach done in some countries, giving a small bow instead of shaking hands. that way no germs can be spread

 

[water]

I think that the only proper way is through more silence.

I definitely wish peace of God for all around me at Mass. I think mainly my issue is psychological more than anything. Anxiety grips me in big crowds.

Often when I am praying I am praying for others, as well as myself. This issue is definitely one I am striving to find peace with.

In other words, we all want to wish this peace be with those around us, and each one of us has a different way to do this. So, it is up to us to choose whichever way we’d like to do as long as that is part of the Mass.

I understand from this forum that we do not need shake hand; therefore, those who do not wish to shake hand, I have to respect that and wish them with the same peace as I do with those who want to shake hand.

 

[otjm]

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/04/hand_holding_ru.html

I really like Jimmy Akin, and find many of his answers very astute.

However, if I had to rely on someone in authority, I think I would choose Archbishop Chaput - an archbishop, with more theological and liturgical training - over Jimmy, and I consider no disrespect in making that choice.

Archbishop Chaput has explained publicly that the posture of the hands is not regulated, and people are free to choose, on their own, either to hold hands or to not hold hands. Those choosing to not hold hands should not be required to do so nor judged as wrong for not doing so; and those who choose to hold hands are not viloating any rubrical law, are free to do so and should not be judged as wrong.

The issue has been around since the mid 1960’s. Rome has been thoroughly apprized of the issue and not once but twice has chosen, when promugating a new issue of the GIRM, to ignore the issue; further, when addressing abuses in the liturgy (Redmptionis Sacarmentum) was again silent.

I do not suggest that it is good liturgy. All sorts of arguments have been trotted out to explain why it is horrible, a terrible abuse of the liturgy, disruptive, a violation of some variation of reading liturgical law, etc., and the bottom line is that all amounts to personal opinion.

There are a whole lot worse issues we need to deal with in the Church. For those who are so upset about it, I would suggest, as my saintly grandmother would say, “Offer it up for the Poor Souls”. I do not mean to make light of it, but frankly, with issues of 1,000,000 + abortions a year, with Catholics getting divorced at the rate of the rest of secualr society, with only 35% or so Catholics in the US going to Mass on a regular basis and something around 5% in many European countries, with militant jihadist Islam raising hob thoughout the world, the further breakdown of the family in Europe and the US with the drive for homosexual “marriage” and right behind that for polyamory, with rampant homosexuality within the priesthood not to mention the lack of sufficient vocations, maybe, just maybe we need to put this in perspective and concern ourselves about something serious?

We can all agree that it is not the best of liturgical postures. It has been around for 40+ years and frankly, the response from Rome is deafening silence. Can we find something possibly just a little more worthwhile to focus our angst on?

If you don’t want to hold hands, for heavens sake don’t, but be charitible in the process. If you want to, don’t force it on anyone else, and don’t treat those who don’t want to as some sort of heathen.

I can’t believe the number of threads this issue has generated. Are we all so myopic to real issues that we are approaching blindness? Is this really such a major factor in our lives? Really? Because if it is , I would suggest that some of us need to get out of our warm fuzzy blanket existence and start dealing with real issues.

And if you need a few suggestions, I’ll give a couple: spend 15 minutes a day in prayer (I don’t care what really - I prefer the Liturgy of the Hours, but the Rosary is excellent; or the Divine Mercy devotion). Find an issue to pray about each day and do so: vocations is an excellent place to start. Find somewhere to go to Mass one day a week besides Sunday and offer that Mass for those who have fallen away from the Faith. Spend 15 minutes a day in spiritual reading. Do one thing each day you don’t like to do (work is a good place to look for something; most everyone has something at work they don’t like) and do it as well as you can, and offer that up for the Poor Souls.

In the meanwhile, get over it. I didn’t say “like it”; just get over it. Move on. Get off the fixation. There has been enough whine to start a vineyard; bottle it, put a cork in it and give it away. Find something that really matters and focus on that issue, and then take that issue up in prayer.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I would much rather have something more formal, ideally some sort of revival of the instrumentum pacis/pax brede.