Shall we sit, stand, or kneel to Pray?

[brigid12]

Since the section of the GIRM we are talking about is an adaptation – the universal is to kneel only at Consecration – the USCCB needed approval from Rome to have kneeling throughout. It would be well within their jurisdiction to allow the individual bishops to decide for their diocese whether to follow the US adaptation or the the universal norm.

It would seem so, however as my grandmother is on her way (very, very soon) to Our Maker, I don’t have time to check it. Please pray for her and my mother? (Sorry for the thread drift.)

 

[ASD]

brigid12;4723845:

Individual latin-rite Catholic parishes do not

have the permission to decide for themselves, and even their diocesan
bishops don’t in this matter. The diocesan bishops had to get even their changes to the GIRM ratified by the Pope.That would depend on the USCCB. When the previous GIRM was in effect, the US had an adaptation in it about the kneeling during the EP. While at the beginning it was a US-wide adaptation, after several years the USCCB gave individual bishops permission to decide for their own diocese.

In Canada it was always up to the individual bishops, some of whom decided to leave it up to the individual pastor to decide for his parish. Some parishes in my diocese kneel for all the EP, some only for the Consecration and some not at all.

That is my diocese too. Welcome to the club.

I simply wouldn’t do it.

ASD​

Sancte Míchaël Archángele, defénde nos in prǽlio.

 

[peregrinus_sg]

That would depend on the USCCB. When the previous GIRM was in effect, the US had an adaptation in it about the kneeling during the EP. While at the beginning it was a US-wide adaptation, after several years the USCCB gave individual bishops permission to decide for their own diocese.

In Canada it was always up to the individual bishops, some of whom decided to leave it up to the individual pastor to decide for his parish. Some parishes in my diocese kneel for all the EP, some only for the Consecration and some not at all.

But those who do not kneel at all would contravene the norm of the Church certainly, since no Bishops’ Conference had asked, and received recognitio, to stand throughout the Eucharistic Prayer ordinarily.

 

[Phemie]

But those who do not kneel at all would contravene the norm of the Church certainly, since no Bishops’ Conference had asked, and received recognitio, to stand throughout the Eucharistic Prayer ordinarily.

“In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.”

Although various conferences have different adaptations, the section on posture usually ends with those same 5 words. Now I’ve heard lots of [sarcasm]‘good reasons’ [/sarcasm] given to justify standing. The one I’ve heard most often is that the EP is ONE prayer and should have the same posture throughout. While some were willing but reluctant to admit that that one posture could be kneeling, most didn’t even entertain that possibility.

And in one workshop the ‘good reason’ given for standing was that the celebrant or the pastor had instructed us to do so.

 

[benedictgal]

“In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.”

Although various conferences have different adaptations, the section on posture usually ends with those same 5 words. Now I’ve heard lots of [sarcasm]‘good reasons’ [/sarcasm] given to justify standing. The one I’ve heard most often is that the EP is ONE prayer and should have the same posture throughout. While some were willing but reluctant to admit that that one posture could be kneeling, most didn’t even entertain that possibility.

And in one workshop the ‘good reason’ given for standing was that the celebrant or the pastor had instructed us to do so.

It’s kind of funny. The Prefect-Emeritus for the Congregation for Divine Worship, Francis Cardinal Arinze, acknowledged the US for kneeling during from after the Sanctus to the Great Amen and then after the Agnus Dei.

The rule from Rome would sanction where the bishops said, “in our country we want people to kneel throughout the consecration”. From our office in Rome we will support that. So it is a bit different. But sometimes during the consecration – suppose it is open-air or it rained and it is muddy – you could not kneel there. But in the normal church it is possible to kneel.

And that’s the normal thing: to kneel during the consecration – and even, as in this country, to kneel from the beginning – just before consecration – right down to just before the Our Father. And that is okay.

Where a particular person cannot kneel – you have arthritis or you are a mother holding a baby – that is understood.

This comes from a Q and A session that he conducted here in the US from six years ago. I doubt that the new Prefect will deviate from the course.

 

[Tybourne]

I’m no Latinist, but a priest told me that “to ***stand ***in your presence and serve you” is a mistranslation, that it should read “to ***be ***in your presence and serve you”. This removed my last objection to not following the practise in my parish and diocese, namely to stand throughout the Eucharistic Prayer. I now kneel at the consecration.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I’m no Latinist, but a priest told me that “to ***stand ***in your presence and serve you” is a mistranslation, that it should read “to ***be ***in your presence and serve you”.

astare

coram te et tibi ministrare*
While *asto, astare *does have a secondary definition of “to be, to exist”, I think you’d need to make a stronger case than *“because I say so” *to compel translation other than by its primary definition. “to stand, to stand at, to stand before”.

:twocents:
tee

 

[japhy]

I’m no Latinist, but a priest told me that “to ***stand ***in your presence and serve you” is a mistranslation, that it should read “to ***be ***in your presence and serve you”.

astare

coram te et tibi ministrare*
While *asto, astare *does have a secondary definition of “to be, to exist”, I think you’d need to make a stronger case than *“because I say so” *to compel translation other than by its primary definition. “to stand, to stand at, to stand before”.

FWIW, the new English translation renders it “to be in your presence and minister to you”.

 

[justinkolo]

“In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.”

Although various conferences have different adaptations, the section on posture usually ends with those same 5 words. Now I’ve heard lots of [sarcasm]‘good reasons’ [/sarcasm] given to justify standing. The one I’ve heard most often is that the EP is ONE prayer and should have the same posture throughout. While some were willing but reluctant to admit that that one posture could be kneeling, most didn’t even entertain that possibility.

And in one workshop the ‘good reason’ given for standing was that the celebrant or the pastor had instructed us to do so.

I asked my pastor today for his reason for standing at the “family” mass last Sunday and all he said was “that assembly has adopted that pose”.

 

[kangkongking]

i believe that as long as we really pray to God deeply and by heart, He will hear us no matter what position we pray.

 

[ASD]

i believe that as long as we really pray to God deeply and by heart, He will hear us no matter what position we pray.

Sure. So why insist on change? Why force everybody to abandon long-standing practice?

 

[tee_eff_em]

FWIW, the new English translation renders it “to be in your presence and minister to you”.

And that I would take as a more authoritative statement on the matter.

tee