Sharron Angle: Down With Maternity, Autism Coverage

[bbarrick8383]

I am not calling for redistribution of wealth.

/CoughBSCough

I am saying that the evil of the Tea Party is this: “You did not earn it, you have no right to it, so you can die of starvation or disease for all I care, this is MY money”

You are misled, mistaken, downright absolutely wrong again Ralph. This is the label you put on it to justify your beliefs.

You should be ashamed of yourselves for calling good hard working Americans evil. Its disgusting.

 

[StTommyMore]

/CoughBSCough

You are misled, mistaken, downright absolutely wrong again Ralph. This is the label you put on it to justify your beliefs.

You should be ashamed of yourselves for calling good hard working Americans evil. Its disgusting.

You have to realize that your goods are not yours. They are God’s. He is simply entrusting them to your care. This means that you are morally obligated to provide your goods to be used for the care of those who do not have the means to care for themselves.

“Find out how much God has given you and from it take what you need; the remainder is needed by others.” St. Augustine of Hippo

 

[bbarrick8383]

You have to realize that your goods are not yours. They are God’s. He is simply entrusting them to your care. This means that you are morally obligated to provide your goods to be used for the care of those who do not have the means to care for themselves.

“Find out how much God has given you and from it take what you need; the remainder is needed by others.” St. Augustine of Hippo

Wow…

Do you realise how many "you"s are in there? Funny thing is, I don’t see “government” or “others” or “them”.

Give me what I’ve earned, let me take care of my family and give me the dignity to distribute it where I see fit. Not you, me.

 

[StTommyMore]

Wow…

Do you realise how many "you"s are in there? Funny thing is, I don’t see “government” or “others” or “them”.

Give me what I’ve earned, let me take care of my family and give me the dignity to distribute it where I see fit. Not you, me.

You earn nothing. Everything you have is a gift.

 

[estesbob]

You earn nothing. Everything you have is a gift.

A gift from God-not the Govt.

 

[bbarrick8383]

You earn nothing. Everything you have is a gift.

Oh gee, in that case I’ll just stay home and spend more time with the wife and kids. I’ll be sure and tell my boss that I earn nothing and he should just give it to me since it’s my gift from God.

Are you really this illogically blinded by emotions that you can’t even make sense in a discussion?

 

[St_Francis]

You have to realize that your goods are not yours. They are God’s. He is simply entrusting them to your care. This means that you are morally obligated to provide your goods to be used for the care of those who do not have the means to care for themselves.

“Find out how much God has given you and from it take what you need; the remainder is needed by others.” St. Augustine of Hippo

Into whose care did you just write that God entrusted these goods?

 

[Monte_RCMS]

What happened to the title of this thread???

 

[gnjsdad]

The accusations of class envy are right on the mark. The Democrats are constantly talking about how much rich people have, and I have yet to hear an explantion of why conservatives, who supposedly care so little for the poor, volutarily give more to the poor than do the liberals, who supposedly care so much.

The Democrat/Republican, liberal/conservative categories are inadequate, in my opinion, when discussing the just distribution of earthly goods. These intellectual categories are rooted in Protestant, not Catholic, philosophy.

Yes, the Church teaches the fundamental right of private ownership. The Church also teaches that those who have are obligated in justice to give of what they have to those who have not.
St Francis:

It is not so much that I ignore the universal destination of goods as that I do not think that the government should force it on us and be the institution through which all the “donations” flow. I believe that this is bad for individuals, both those who have and tbose who have not, and bad for society as a whole.

If the distribution of goods through private means is unjust, a situation that I believe currently exists in this country, the government has an obligation to step in and rectify the situation. Just because the government acts, it does not follow that the government action is “socialist”.

 

[St_Francis]

This is true, but in certain cases, you have the right to liberate what is yours from those who are keeping it from you.

It is true thqt in cases of dire necessity people have the right to take what they need if the owner is being unreasonable in not sharing his excess.

St Thomas Aquinas writes this upon this subject:* Since, however, there are many who are in need, while it is impossible for all to be succored by means of the same thing,** each one is entrusted with the stewardship of his own things, so that out of them he may come to the aid of those who are in need. \b]Nevertheless, if the need be so manifest and urgent, that it is evident that the present need must be remedied by whatever means be at hand (for instance when a person is in some imminent danger, and there is no other possible remedy), then it is lawful for a man to succor his own need by means of another’s property, by taking it either openly or secretly: nor is this properly speaking theft or robbery.** Part 2 of 2, Q 66.

St Thomas goes on to say in Obj 3 Art 8 of the same question that it is all right for princes , ie, governments, to take what is needed for the common good, bot that to go beyond that is “robbery even as burglary is.” In Obj 3, Qrt. 7, St Thomas quotes St Augustine that it is wrong to stel from one’s neighbor to give alms to another.

Jesus was tempted with wealth in the wilderness. I am not calling for redistribution of wealth. I am saying that the evil of the Tea Party is this: “You did not earn it, you have no right to it, so you can die of starvation or disease for all I care, this is MY money”

The problem is that what the Tea Party people are sying is not that they do not want to share, but that the government’s taking their money and giving it to others is wrong. And this line of thinking is not out of line with what 3 Doctors of the Church have written: as quoted earlier, St John Chysostom, St Augustine, and St. Thomas Aquinas.

As I have pointed out 2 or 3 times already in this thread alone, it is the conservatives who give more to charity than do the conservatives. And it is the conservatives who are more likely to join the Tea Party. And oddly enough, very rich people tend to be liberals. Overall, I think you need to back up your claims about the evil of the Tea Party members better than you have in order for your statements to be taken serioisly.*

 

[St_Francis]

…If the distribution of goods through private means is unjust, a situation that I believe currently exists in this country, the government has an obligation to step in and rectify the situation. Just because the government acts, it does not follow that the government action is “socialist”.

While having bllions os dollars seems excessive to me as wwell, I don’t think that the answer is for the government to step in this way.

In 2008, charitable contributions were over $3 billion. Three quarters of that were from individuals.That would be slightly under $10,000 for each poor person in the US, which considering that most people think that the poor are taken care of by the government is a considerable amount.

In 2002, combined state, local, and federal spending on “welfare” which included Social Security payments (which go to all elderly regardless of income), was only 3.3 times the amount given in 2008: $1.1 trillion.

So, first I do not think that the situation as it is in the US can even be judged one way or the other, as it is so interfered with. When people believe that sufficient programs exist to care for the poor, they do not concern themselves personally with the poor. I think that if people knew that the poor did not have government programs, I think that they would be moved by their plight to help, just as they are by the plight of those hit by hurricanes and other natural disasters.

 

[StTommyMore]

It is true thqt in cases of dire necessity people have the right to take what they need if the owner is being unreasonable in not sharing his excess.

St Thomas Aquinas writes this upon this subject:* Since, however, there are many who are in need, while it is impossible for all to be succored by means of the same thing,** each one is entrusted with the stewardship of his own things, so that out of them he may come to the aid of those who are in need. \b]Nevertheless, if the need be so manifest and urgent, that it is evident that the present need must be remedied by whatever means be at hand (for instance when a person is in some imminent danger, and there is no other possible remedy), then it is lawful for a man to succor his own need by means of another’s property, by taking it either openly or secretly: nor is this properly speaking theft or robbery.*** Part 2 of 2, Q 66.

St Thomas goes on to say in Obj 3 Art 8 of the same question that it is all right for princes , ie, governments, to take what is needed for the common good, bot that to go beyond that is “robbery even as burglary is.” In Obj 3, Qrt. 7, St Thomas quotes St Augustine that it is wrong to stel from one’s neighbor to give alms to another.

The problem is that what the Tea Party people are sying is not that they do not want to share, but that the government’s taking their money and giving it to others is wrong. And this line of thinking is not out of line with what 3 Doctors of the Church have written: as quoted earlier, St John Chysostom, St Augustine, and St. Thomas Aquinas.

As I have pointed out 2 or 3 times already in this thread alone, it is the conservatives who give more to charity than do the conservatives. And it is the conservatives who are more likely to join the Tea Party. And oddly enough, very rich people tend to be liberals. Overall, I think you need to back up your claims about the evil of the Tea Party members better than you have in order for your statements to be taken serioisly.

Let me get this straight: the governmnet is NOT supposed to help provide for its citizens?

 

[bbarrick8383]

Let me get this straight: the governmnet is NOT supposed to help provide for its citizens?

It’s pretty well defined what the federal governments role is here in the US.

Liberals just can not understand the that the consequences of voting in politicians to take control over welfare for hundreds of millions of people.

The proof that it doesn’t work is laid out very well over history, and our country since the great society is even more proof. The more a government tries to provide for it’s citizens the more damage it does to society.

 

[StTommyMore]

It’s pretty well defined what the federal governments role is here in the US.

Liberals just can not understand the that the consequences of voting in politicians to take control over welfare for hundreds of millions of people.

The proof that it doesn’t work is laid out very well over history, and our country since the great society is even more proof. The more a government tries to provide for it’s citizens the more damage it does to society.

That does not bear out. Besides, temoral success is not all that important. I would rather do what I can for the poor and hungry thatn collect my money and sit on it.

 

[StTommyMore]

Oh gee, in that case I’ll just stay home and spend more time with the wife and kids. I’ll be sure and tell my boss that I earn nothing and he should just give it to me since it’s my gift from God.

Are you really this illogically blinded by emotions that you can’t even make sense in a discussion?

The only reason you have a job is by the grace of God.

 

[bbarrick8383]

That does not bear out. Besides, temoral success is not all that important. I would rather do what I can for the poor and hungry thatn collect my money and sit on it.

Ever think you could do more for the poor and hungry if it were not for the government?

I know I could, and I would.

Much, much more.

I never said anything about collecting money and sitting on it, why don’t you stop adding words to the discussion that are not there. Argue your point based on facts and logic, not what you want me to say but what I am saying. What you want me to say is not what I’m going to say, it’s your search for justification of your beliefs that are as wrong as they can be.

 

[bbarrick8383]

The only reason you have a job is by the grace of God.

Yes…can’t argue with that can I.

 

[StTommyMore]

Yes…can’t argue with that can I.

Enough of the sarcasm. The problem here is your obstinate refusal to accept that control of your life belongs not to you, but to God. All that we have is God’s. All of our achievements are only through God. God created us, and bestowed our talents upon us. Every good thing is from God. Our worldly possessions, our talents, our health, our faith…all comes from God, and none is of our own doing. Remember with your disregard for the poor, that it only by the grace of God that you are blessed with plenty.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Enough of the sarcasm. The problem here is your obstinate refusal to accept that control of your life belongs not to you, but to God. All that we have is God’s. All of our achievements are only through God. God created us, and bestowed our talents upon us. Every good thing is from God. Our worldly possessions, our talents, our health, our faith…all comes from God, and none is of our own doing. Remember with your disregard for the poor, that it only by the grace of God that you are blessed with plenty.

Yes, I see the problem…and it has nothing to do with my understanding of what God has given me in life.

You should bite your tongue.

“It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

 

[Robert_Bay]

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