It remains to be seen just who should have called in Jared Loughner to law enforcement before we can assign blame. Already there are reports that the college he attended could have done more. There were notes found that he was saying “goodbye” to people he knew.You know what’s a laugh riot? We have those same laws here in Arizona. And yet, Jared Loughner walked the streets a free man, because he couldn’t be shown to be a threat to himself or others, until he murdered six others.
I tend to find a corpse is a pretty compelling argument.
I am not sure I am following you maybe you can explain further?Okay, so you can quote the current practice of the psych establishment. You are aware that “what the ‘experts’ currently do” and “what is reasonable to do” are not the same thing?
Very simply, you keep arguing from the accepted practice of the psychological profession in your state. Do you not know that psychologists are as prone to fads and political correctness as teachers or journalists? Did you know they declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder completely in the absence of any new data?I am not sure I am following you maybe you can explain further?
I am glad you brought this up because I agree with you on this.Very simply, you keep arguing from the accepted practice of the psychological profession in your state. Do you not know that psychologists are as prone to fads and political correctness as teachers or journalists? Did you know they declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder completely in the absence of any new data?
What psychologists do regarding anything, be it paranoid schizophrenia or any other illness, may not be correct. Even without all the fads, they are capable of error: doctors used to bleed people to let out the bad humors. A hundred years ago the psychologists would be falling over themselves to lobotomize any schizophrenic; if they were wrong then they could be wrong now.
He liked “progessive metal”, NOT punk. Here’s a credible lead:Since we can’t rely on the bigoted leftist mainstream media to follow credible leads due to blind loyalty and willful ignorance:
“For starters, if we’re actually going to analyze the politics of Loughner, we should note that one of his former classmates, Caitie Parker, describes him as a “left wing” “political radical” and “pot head”; moreover, Parker—who had been in a band with Loughner—states that he was a fan of the radical leftist punk-rock band Anti-Flag. Note here that Loughner did, in fact, echo that band’s ideas on his YouTube page. Also note that on that page Loughner had listed as one of his favorite works The Communist Manifesto.”
canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/32041
How do we know this isn’t the leftist version of Tim McVeigh?
This human murdered 6 people in cold blood. With out regard for any of them. He does not care that he hit a 9 y/o girl. Or someones husband or wife…Isn’t trying to assign him to the left just as bad as trying to assign him to the right? I don’t think political rhetoric can be blamed for his crimes. He is obviously a twisted man who took his beliefs too far.
Are you serious? I don’t understand the point of your first reference, other than the band was all set to release a new album, but now they’re suddenly “not currently active.” Was Loughner a fan? Is Caitie in the band???He liked “progessive metal”, NOT punk. Here’s a credible lead:
*"… prog metal band Fear Before, formerly known as Fear Before The March of Flames. They’re from Aurora, Colorado, in suburban Denver, just a short drive from Columbine High School.
Fear Before’s most recent shows in Arizona were back-to-back nights in Tucson and Phoenix in October 2008 in support of their self-titled fourth album. Were you there? You may have been standing next to a homicidal sicko.
None of the band’s releases appear to have album art eliciting an “ouch!” though, so that little inside joke will have to remain secret until or unless Loughner or one of his buddies addresses it.
Though the band was reportedly working on a new album for release early this year, a publicist at their label Equal Vision Records (a label that also releases records from Phoenix band Dear and the Headlights) said the group’s “not currently active.”*
Source: blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/what_music_did_jared_loughner.php
As for Anti-Flag, here’s the statement directly from their web site:
“It has come to our attention that a purported former classmate of Jared Lee Loughner stated the following about him, “…he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix, The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven’t seen him in person since '07…” This comment has led to some discussion in the media and elsewhere regarding Anti-Flag and what Anti-Flag stands for.
For well over a decade Anti-Flag has endorsed non-violent progressive change and has lobbied for peace, equality, justice, and health care (including mental health care) for all people of America and the world.
Anti-Flag unconditionally condemns the heinous actions of Mr. Loughner and our heartfelt condolences and best wishes go out to every single person affected by Mr. Loughner’s senseless act of violence. Our message is and always has been very clear, violence in any form is unacceptable.”
Source: anti-flag.com/NE10.php?news_item=524
Fact-checking isn’t exactly a strong point for certain cable news channels (not naming names), but the above two sources are certainly more accurate than irresponsible rumor-mongering.
Yes and no. His political affiliations would be of noteworthy if they were his primary motivations.Isn’t trying to assign him to the left just as bad as trying to assign him to the right? I don’t think political rhetoric can be blamed for his crimes. He is obviously a twisted man who took his beliefs too far.
I agree with you that it was ignorant. It is in very poor taste to begin placing any blame on political leaders, or even anyone other than the shooter.Yes and no. His political affiliations would be of noteworthy if they were his primary motivations.
What was downright ignorant of the liberals to do was not only assume he was a member of the right, simply because he shot a democrat, but they named names without absolutely any proof, putting those peoples lives in danger as well.
Regarding the red words above, Not true:As for Anti-Flag, here’s the statement directly from their web site:
"It has come to our attention that a purported former classmate of Jared Lee Loughner stated the following about him, “…he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix, The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven’t seen him in person since '07…” This comment has led to some discussion in the media and elsewhere regarding Anti-Flag and what Anti-Flag stands for.
For well over a decade Anti-Flag has endorsed non-violent progressive change and has lobbied for peace, equality, justice, and health care (including mental health care) for all people of America and the world.
Anti-Flag unconditionally condemns the heinous actions of Mr. Loughner and our heartfelt condolences and best wishes go out to every single person affected by Mr. Loughner’s senseless act of violence. Our message is and always has been very clear, violence in any form is unacceptable."
Source: anti-flag.com/NE10.php?news_item=524
Fact-checking isn’t exactly a strong point for certain cable news channels (not naming names), but the above two sources are certainly more accurate than irresponsible rumor-mongering.
If you actually read the lyrics, they say that their opponents [conservatives?] are advocating death for those who do prescribe to America’s ideals.Regarding the red words above, Not true:
Anti-Flag echoed Loughner’s themes, posted in his YouTube channel, of mind control and antipathy to the U.S. flag in “Red, White and Brainwashed,” a theme to the group’s 1996 album entitled “Die for the Government.”
The lyrics:
The red stands for the blood of all the people
We’ve slain
The white for this racist, bigoted foundation
The blue for your aryan eyes – all empty
Empty because you’re taught to bow down to the man
Fly that flag, that flag of freedom
Do what you can for your country
Go and fight their wars for them
They’re not following in our footsteps,
KILL THEM!
Read more: Radical leftist punk band inspired accused gunman wnd.com/?pageId=249741#ixzz1B2uUuYet
No, you conveniently omitted the words in my post directly underneath the word “lyrics”, as in:If you actually read the lyrics, they say that their opponents [conservatives?] are advocating death for those who do prescribe to America’s ideals.
Nevertheless, that is the sort violent language about which we should be very careful.
There is a difference between blame and criticism. I don’t think anyone is blaming political leaders for this incident. Even Krugman in his piece Climate of Hate stops short of claiming that the shooter was politically motivated. Rather he criticizes the right for overly violent rhetoric. (Although he does blame them for some past incidents.) He is saying that if the right is really disgusted by this shooting they should carefully and honestly re-evaluate the language they use to ensure they do not inspire other crazies: "If Arizona promotes some real soul-searching, it could prove a turning point. If it doesn’t, Saturday’s atrocity will be just the beginning. "I agree with you that it was ignorant. It is in very poor taste to begin placing any blame on political leaders, or even anyone other than the shooter.
I agree that his affiliations would be noteworthy if it was his primary motivation, but I still don’t think it would be fair to place any blame on them. This would be no different than placing blame on Christians as a whole for the few loonies who kill abortion doctors, or the Muslim who kills innocent people in the town square.
This young man did terrible things and I don’t think anyone is to blame other than the man himself.
No, the line “They’re not following in our footsteps, KILL THEM!” is the justification for “Go and fight their wars for them.” In other words, the reason that you [the listener] should go and fight the wars for them [the government] is because they [the enemies in the war] are not following in our [America’s] footsteps, KILL THEM [the enemies in the war]!No, you conveniently omitted the words in my post directly underneath the word “lyrics”, as in:
"The lyrics:
They use the flag to control us
Brainwash us to be their patrotic slaves"
“They” is the govt. The lyrics then go on to say at the end:
“They’re not following in our footsteps,
KILL THEM!”
as in the govt. I suggest you go back and “actually” read post #500. I don’t know how they can actually post on their web site that “Our message is and always has been very clear, violence in any form is unacceptable.” I guess there will always be Truth deniers. The problem is that too many lefties believe that they themselves are immune from bigotry and ignorance of the Truth, because the media tells them so over and over again.
The beginning of what?There is a difference between blame and criticism. I don’t think anyone is blaming political leaders for this incident. Even Krugman in his piece Climate of Hate stops short of claiming that the shooter was politically motivated. Rather he criticizes the right for overly violent rhetoric. (Although he does blame them for some past incidents.) He is saying that if the right is really disgusted by this shooting they should carefully and honestly re-evaluate the language they use to ensure they do not inspire other crazies: "If Arizona promotes some real soul-searching, it could prove a turning point. If it doesn’t, Saturday’s atrocity will be just the beginning. "
SO, that’s why he voluntarily tried to enter the military??? SO he could be forced into war which his music rages against???No, the line “They’re not following in our footsteps, KILL THEM!” is the justification for “Go and fight their wars for them.” In other words, the reason that you [the listener] should go and fight the wars for them [the government] is because they [the enemies in the war] are not following in our [America’s] footsteps, KILL THEM [the enemies in the war]!
Any other reading I think is fairly forced.
The beginning of a nonstop smear campaign by the Left against anyone who disagrees with them? That started a long time ago.There is a difference between blame and criticism. I don’t think anyone is blaming political leaders for this incident. Even Krugman in his piece Climate of Hate stops short of claiming that the shooter was politically motivated. Rather he criticizes the right for overly violent rhetoric. (Although he does blame them for some past incidents.) He is saying that if the right is really disgusted by this shooting they should carefully and honestly re-evaluate the language they use to ensure they do not inspire other crazies: "If Arizona promotes some real soul-searching, it could prove a turning point. If it doesn’t, Saturday’s atrocity will be just the beginning. "