Shirk - Christians damned forever?

[narrowpath]

A question for all muslims. I have read that the unforgivable sin in Islam is shirk, associating other beings with God. One example of this is supposed to be the trinity. Doesn’t this mean that trinitarian Christians are damned forever? Not to mention hindus, etc. I ask his because I read a book of accounts of women who converted to Islam, many from trinitarian Christian backgrounds.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

anyone ( hindu , Muslim , Christian , Buddhist ) if rejects God/ associates partner with God & die without repentance will be in fire.

If s/he does something good , all rewards will be given in this world only .

So ,not only Christians , anyone guilty of committing Shirk /blasphemy will be damned forever.

a related verse :

"And whoever invokes (or worships) besides God, any other îlâh (god), of whom he has no proof, then his reckoning is only with his Lord.

Surely! Al-Kafirûn (disbelievers in God and in the Oneness of God, polytheists, pagans, idolaters, etc.) will not be successful." ( 23:117).

 

[dolphinlove]

Thanks Muslim woman for that answer.
It makes me so glad im Catholic.

 

[Sam_777]

the unforgivable sin in Islam is shirk, associating other beings with God. One example of this is supposed to be the trinity. Doesn’t this mean that trinitarian Christians are damned forever?

Why you had doubt about that!, while Catholics consider Muslims to be included in the plan of salvation according to CCC#841, Islam consider them to be the firewood of hell.

I ask his because I read a book of accounts of women who converted to Islam, many from trinitarian Christian backgrounds.

Regarding the book about the women who converted to Islam, were they Arabic Christians?, because those very few Arabic women that I have read about them in the media have converted because they wanted to get a divorce, on the other hand the majority of converters are non Arabs whom are ignorant of Arabic language and can’t depend on themselves to read the original Arabic scripts about Islam, therefore they rely on the Islamic clerics to explain them Islam, and those Islamic clerics will be more than happy to show only one side of Islam to convert as many women as possible.

P.S., read my thread about a brave Arabic women who said no to Muhammed here.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I don’t care what Mahometans think.

I confess there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead!

 

[TomaszA]

It would not qualify because the Trinity properly understood does not constitute Shirk.

 

[inJESUS]

It would not qualify because the Trinity properly understood does not constitute Shirk.

i agree because if you ask a Muslim about the word of Allah, he will tell you it is uncreated and eternal but when you talk about it using the word “Trinity” as Father and Son/Word, it suddenly becomes shirk because that’s how Muhammad presented it in his book…

 

[ralphinal]

So the only ones damned are Christians…interesting…

 

[hamba2han]

A Christian would commit shirk every time that he crosses himself.

Kneeling and bowing before a statue or graven image is also a major act of shirk.

There is absolutely no record in the scriptures of any of the Prophets (peace be upon them all) worshipping their Lord by crossing themselves or by either making statues and graven images or bowing down to them.

What about Muslims bowing towards the Ka’bah, the detractors of Islam might ask?

Well, what about it?

"I will bow down toward your holy temple** and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word."** … (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 138:2)

 

[inJESUS]

A Christian would commit shirk

every time that he crosses himself. perhaps we better be thiking of the Quranic aya and who appeared to be on the cross instead?

There is absolutely no record in the scriptures

 

[Callin]

anyone ( hindu , Muslim , Christian , Buddhist ) if rejects God/ associates partner with God & die without repentance will be in fire.

So ,not only Christians , anyone guilty of committing Shirk /blasphemy will be damned forever.

So wait, what if someone is raised in a non-Muslim family and taught to worship some other being before they even hear about Islam.

1. Is that person automatically damned?
2. Is that person still damned even if they convert to Islam?

I mean, if it’s “unforgivable” and they’re “damned forever”…

 

[hamba2han]

… nor saying the shahada…so far, logic = zero…

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did indeed say the shahada.

On the other hand, did Prophet Jesus (pbuh) ever cross himself… or erected statues or graven images in places of worship… or bowed down to them?

Neither Prophet Muhammad nor Prophet Jesus (peace be upon them) ever commited any act of shirk… and neither did any of the other Prophets of God throughout the history of humankind.

 

[TomaszA]

A Christian would commit shirk every time that he crosses himself.

Why would this be shirk?

Kneeling and bowing before a statue or graven image is also a major act of shirk.

For it to be shirk we’d have to worship the statue or the image, which we don’t (Just like you don’t worship the Ka’ba). If its a statue or image of a Saint we use that to guide our veneration or prayer, we don’t actually venerate the statue itself but the person it represents.

There is absolutely no record in the scriptures of any of the Prophets (peace be upon them all) worshipping their Lord by crossing themselves or by either making statues and graven images or bowing down to them.

Veneration of heavenly beings is recorded in the bible. In general, the bones of Martyrs were venerated very early and then images that represented them. There is nothing wrong with this, in fact its just and beneficial.

We make the cross out of reverence and remembrance of our Lord.

 

[inJESUS]

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did indeed say the shahada.

no one before did so?

On the other hand, did Prophet Jesus (pbuh) ever cross himself…

 

[meedo]

A question for all muslims. I have read that the unforgivable sin in Islam is shirk, associating other beings with God. One example of this is supposed to be the trinity. Doesn’t this mean that trinitarian Christians are damned forever? Not to mention hindus, etc. I ask his because I read a book of accounts of women who converted to Islam, many from trinitarian Christian backgrounds.

Forget the names.

ANYBODY , believes in multiple identities of God or that God in incarnated into a man or that God has a son , is commiting ‘‘association with God’’. ''Shirk ‘’ means association . And according to Muslim belief, it is the greatest sin . For God has created us to worship HIM , not HIM and somebody other, nor an idea of him where he is incarnated into a man nor that he is a part of three parts .

Now if a commits acts of worship against a saint for example by praying to his grave and asking him by his special status or powers to forgive sins or to do miracles this is considered aslo an acrt of worship and thus a grave sin.

There word ''condemned forever ‘’ is not somthing that exists in islam . There is NOBODY condemned forever untill he dies and he is not reprentant . bascily every body has a chance as long as he is still alive. the monent death arrives the moment that his chance ends.

There are exceptions to this rule

1- Kids who died before reaching puberty
2- People who were misinformed about the proper belief in God or did not get the message of belief.
3- mentally impaired people

There is no special condemnattion in islam for any body and there is no ‘‘condemnation forever’’ as lomg as one is alive and has the chance to repent.

 

[meedo]

So wait, what if someone is raised in a non-Muslim family and taught to worship some other being before they even hear about Islam.

1. Is that person automatically damned?
2. Is that person still damned even if they convert to Islam?

I mean, if it’s “unforgivable” and they’re “damned forever”…

1- No ,
2- No

Nothing is unforgivable in islam except dying in a state of shirt

 

[TomaszA]

Muslims have a very extreme understanding of worship. I’ve heard Muslims say bowing to another out of respect is shirk. Some don’t even have photos of their family members because they might be “worshiped.”

We simply don’t share this extreme view. Worship means to adore God or to offer this adoration to someone or something put in place of God. Bowing out of respect, photos, these things don’t constitute worship.

We actually distinguish between the honor given to God and a **subordinate honor **given things and persons in relation to God. So for example we venerate Martyrs who died for Christ and Saints who expressed great love for God and man.

 

[narrowpath]

Thanks Meedo. That answered my question. I thought it meant that even if someone commited shirk and repented, they could not be forgiven.

 

[inJESUS]

Muslims have a very extreme understanding of worship. I’ve heard Muslims say bowing to another out of respect is shirk.

maybe angels committed shirk by bowing to Adam as per Allah’s request.

Meedo, why do you associate partners with Allah when you say the Quran is eternal and uncreated? aren’t you attributing the essence of Allah to something other than Allah?

 

[inJESUS]

Muhammad’s mistake but they have to insist on teaching us what we believe in, otherwise Muhammad is wrong and he just can’t be wrong because the Quran says so…that is why we have yet to see one Muslim poster who comes here knowing what he’s talking about regarding Christianity.