Shocked by Song Choice at Mass

[Wolseley]

I don’t know…I guess that’s why it’s a good thing that there are different parishes with different modes of expression.

And that’s what you call “being one”? Parish A does things one way, Parish B does it another, and Parish C does something totally different from both A and B?

That’s not “universal”, that’s independant franchising.

I have to agree with an earlier poster who said that quiet contemplation is probably better had in an Adoration chapel.

So Christ, the Supreme Being, should be restricted to a chapel to be adored? He’s not the same awesome Being inside a church as He is in a chapel?

“I adore You, O God----as long as You stay in the box I put You in.”

I can’t ignore that the liturgy documents say that the concept of unity in the Sacrament is important. They do not say that it’s a time of quiet contemplation.

My copy of The General Instructions of the Roman Missal (Washington, D.C.: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2003) says “Sacred silence, as part of the celebration, is to be observed at the designated times…after Communion, [all] praise and pray to God in their hearts” (pg 27). This is a tad difficult to do when you have Hootie and the Blowfish blasting into your ears, “OUR COMMUNION HYMN IS NUMBER 359 IN THE MUSIC ISSUE, ‘BREAD FOR THE WORLD BROKEN’! EVERYONE JOIN IN!”

It also says “When the distribution of Communion is finished, as circumstances suggest, the priest and faithful spend some time praying privately. If desired, a psalm or other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung by the entire congregation.” (pg 44). I have been in few parishes that allowed the first sentence in this passage to be observed; most forced the hymn on everyone whether it was “desired” or not.

Traditionalists, we need you. We need to be infected with your sense of reverence and awe for the majesty of Almighty God.

I’ll say.

On the other hand, I would submit that you Traditionalists need us post V2-ers. You need our joy, our comfort with the presence of the Living God, the God of the poor and the sinner.

Do away with the irreverence, the constant liturgical abuses, the dissent, and the novelties, and we’ll talk.

Can’t we all just get along?

Sadly, verdigirl, I gave up on that a long time ago. We’ve all heard the old joke about the only difference between a liturgist and a terrorist is that you can negotiate with a terrorist, and unfortunately, that’s all too true. It has been my experience that SV2Cs (the “Spirit of Vatican II” Catholics) WILL have their way, come hell or high water, regardless of who gets crunched up in their tank treads as they barrel forth into the brave new world of Newchurch.

The tide is turning, slowly, as the members of the Pepsi Generation pass on to their reward and their grandchildren reinstate what they so blithely threw away; but for those of us who long for majesty and reverence, we probably won’t get much of it this side of the grave.

Sic transit gloria mundi.

 

[Scotty_PGH]

Traditionalists, we need you. We need to be infected with your sense of reverence and awe for the majesty of Almighty God.

Correct.

On the other hand, I would submit that you Traditionalists need us post V2-ers. You need our joy, our comfort with the presence of the Living God, the God of the poor and the sinner.

We already have all of these things.

 

[Wolseley]

GREAT POST.

Notice a trend here? Those of us who work full time in administering the liturgy seem to agree that communion is not a time for adoration. Maybe we know something you don’t!

Yeah, what do those ignorant laypeople know about liturgy, anyway? They’re all too stupid to know how to worship properly. Good thing they have professional liturgists to tell them how to do it, huh? As long as they keep their mouths shut and do as the liturgists tell them, everything will be fine.

 

[Scotty_PGH]

We have just received the God who created the universe, our beloved, and it’s not time to adore Him? What would you do if Jesus appeared before you? After Communion He is even closer to us than that. And sorry, but what is “administering the liturgy”? I think the problem may be what kind of “workshops” and instruction are being provided for lay people.

This topic is going down a futile road. We clearly are two different breeds. The difference, from what they’ve said, is in our fundamental appreciation of what happens when we receive Holy Communion.

All I can think about at that moment is what Christ did for me on the cross and what he continues to do every time the Consecration occurs. The absolute last thing on my mind is hurrying up and finishing my “community meal” so I can hold hands with Pants-suit Paula sitting next to me, while we sing along to “On Eagle’s Wings” with the crooner tickling the ivories.

 

[Roslyn]

If you don’t like the music just “a few times” I wouldn’t send a letter to anyone. The song you name is not heritical in anyway, it’s just a bit peppier than you’d like. You may write your letter saying you prefer more traditional hymns and another parishioner may write one saying they loved the song choice! Since there is nothing wrong with the song, I imagine the music minister will continue to choose from a variety of music–some that you’ll like and others you won’t.

Ditto! Well said!!!

 

[verdigirl]

Yeah, what do those ignorant laypeople know about liturgy, anyway? They’re all too stupid to know how to worship properly. Good thing they have professional liturgists to tell them how to do it, huh? As long as they keep their mouths shut and do as the liturgists tell them, everything will be fine.

Let me ask you this question. What does the following Scripture passage mean to you in the context of this discussion:

There are different kinds of spiritual gifts but the same Spirit;

there are different forms of service but the same Lord;

there are different workings but the same God who produces all of them in everyone.

To each individual the manifestation of the Spirit is given for some benefit.

To one is given through the Spirit the expression of wisdom; to another the expression of knowledge according to the same Spirit;

to another faith by the same Spirit; to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit;

to another mighty deeds; to another prophecy; to another discernment of spirits; to another varieties of tongues; to another interpretation of tongues.

But one and the same Spirit produces all of these, distributing them individually to each person as he wishes.

1 Corinthians 12

 

[verdigirl]

Your post saddens me, as you seem to have no room in your heart for holy Christian reconciliation between brothers. I’ll pray for you anyway.

And that’s what you call “being one”? Parish A does things one way, Parish B does it another, and Parish C does something totally different from both A and B?

That’s not “universal”, that’s independant franchising.

It’s a necessity if rigid people cannot hear the voice of God except for in environments that suit them. Is the validity of the Sacrament somehow compromised because it’s too noisy for your concentration?

So Christ, the Supreme Being, should be restricted to a chapel to be adored? He’s not the same awesome Being inside a church as He is in a chapel?

“I adore You, O God----as long as You stay in the box I put You in.”

No, those are your words. What chauvanism to suggest that those who pray while singing are not adoring!

My copy of The General Instructions of the Roman Missal (Washington, D.C.: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2003) says “Sacred silence, as part of the celebration, is to be observed at the designated times…after Communion, [all] praise and pray to God in their hearts” (pg 27). This is a tad difficult to do when you have Hootie and the Blowfish blasting into your ears, “OUR COMMUNION HYMN IS NUMBER 359 IN THE MUSIC ISSUE, ‘BREAD FOR THE WORLD BROKEN’! EVERYONE JOIN IN!”

It also says “When the distribution of Communion is finished, as circumstances suggest, the priest and faithful spend some time praying privately. If desired, a psalm or other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung by the entire congregation.” (pg 44). I have been in few parishes that allowed the first sentence in this passage to be observed; most forced the hymn on everyone whether it was “desired” or not.

Well, here’s what my 2003 copy says:

1. Sacred silence also, as part of the celebration, is to be observed at the designated times. Its purpose, however, depends on the time it occurs in each part of the celebration. Thus within the Act of Penitence and again after the invitation to pray, all recollect themselves; but at the conclusion of a reading or the homily, all meditate briefly on what they have heard; then after Communion, they praise and pray to God in their hearts.
   (emphasis mine)
   I think the crux of your argument is that somehow Communion is this solitary endeavor. You are missing the point. We celebrate that we are One Body. Again from the same GIRM edition as yours:
2. While the priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion chant is begun. Its purpose is to express the communicants’ union in spirit by means of the unity of their voices, to show joy of heart, and to highlight more clearly the “communitarian” nature of the procession to receive Communion. The singing is continued for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful. If, however, there is to be a hymn after Communion, the Communion chant should be ended in a timely manner.
   (again, emphasis mine)

My brother, you can’t selectively read the GIRM, ok?

Do away with the irreverence, the constant liturgical abuses, the dissent, and the novelties, and we’ll talk.

You are 100 percent right about abuses, etc. However, as St. Augustine says:

“Do not allow yourselves to be offended by the imperfect while you strive for the perfect.”

He is also credited with the “He who sings, prays twice” saying.

Sadly, verdigirl, I gave up on that a long time ago. We’ve all heard the old joke about the only difference between a liturgist and a terrorist is that you can negotiate with a terrorist, and unfortunately, that’s all too true. It has been my experience that SV2Cs (the “Spirit of Vatican II” Catholics) WILL have their way, come hell or high water, regardless of who gets crunched up in their tank treads as they barrel forth into the brave new world of Newchurch.

I am sorry that you have obviously have negative run-ins with hopefully well-meaning liturgists. I know exactly the type you’re talking about. But why would your faith be so fragile that you would allow people like this to make you ignore the purpose of celebrating as one community, in spite of the imperfections?

 

[Cat]

This topic is going down a futile road. We clearly are two different breeds. The difference, from what they’ve said, is in our fundamental appreciation of what happens when we receive Holy Communion.

All I can think about at that moment is what Christ did for me on the cross and what he continues to do every time the Consecration occurs. The absolute last thing on my mind is hurrying up and finishing my “community meal” so I can hold hands with Pants-suit Paula sitting next to me, while we sing along to “On Eagle’s Wings” with the crooner tickling the ivories.

Frankly, I find this very…sad and disheartening and caustic. The attitude in the final paragraph attitude is so irreverent.

Do you honestly think that because we are singing a “contemporary” hymn that we are not thinking about Our Lord and remembering His sacrifice on Calvary and the sacrifice that He asks us to make daily for Him and His Church?

We attended the funeral Mass of a wonderful Protestant convert on Saturday. He was a fairly young man (59), and a great friend of my husband’s. I always appreciated his enthusiastic love for the Catholic Church. He was just confirmed into the Church this Easter.

All of the songs at the funeral Mass were “contemporary”, and the closing hymn was Eagle’s Wings. There wasn’t a dry eye in the place while we were singing it, including the priest, who also loved this dear man.

I want On Eagle’s Wings sung at my funeral Mass.

I play piano at an ancient (100 year-old) parish in my city, and “Eagle’s Wings” is “the” funeral song in that church. Whenever we do it during Mass, I hear a lot of sniffling.

ScottyPGH, is there any way you can just accept that other Catholics prefer different music than you, and that as long as the Church has approved it, it’s OK? We are not committing a sin to like modern music in the Mass.

I’m absolutely fine with you preferring tradition and I hope that there will always be a traditional Mass near you. Just please stop ragging against the style and songs that I and many others prefer. Please? Thank you.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

A) Music in folk idiom is finding acceptance in eucharistic celebrations.

**With all due respect and reverence to Their Excellencys, WHO said folk idiom is finding
acceptance in eucharistic celebrations? How do they know this? Virtually everyone complains about the state of the music played at Mass.
**

We have to keep in mind that we’re in community at Mass, and not everyone is going to like everything. However, as long as the music being chosen is doctrinally sound and appropriate in the liturgical context, then we’re ok.

I dunno, I think we’d better served if we kept in mind precisely Who It is that’s descending on that Altar and in Whose presence we stand.

 

[verdigirl]

ScottyPGH, is there any way you can just accept that other Catholics prefer different music than you, and that as long as the Church has approved it, it’s OK? We are not committing a sin to like modern music in the Mass.

I’m absolutely fine with you preferring tradition and I hope that there will always be a traditional Mass near you. Just please stop ragging against the style and songs that I and many others prefer. Please? Thank you.

Hear, hear.

I am very happy to report that my formerly-pagan husband was received into the Church in 2003, after having played the contemporary songs I had programmed for the Easter Vigil 2002.

He asked to sing one year, after only being an instrumental accompanist. He has a wonderful voice. I warned him that if he started singing these texts, he would convert. He said, “no way!”

And then he was baptized and received into the Church the very next year.

Go figure. I guess the Spirit moves in different ways.

Thanks be to God.

 

[verdigirl]

I dunno, I think we’d better served if we kept in mind precisely Who It is that’s descending on that Altar and in Whose presence we stand.
[/INDENT]

It’s really sad that you think that those of us who are fed by Novus Ordo Masses are somehow devoid of the knowledge of the Real Presence. I think that’s a very prejudiced and unfair stance to take. You are trying to equate us with Protestants, and it’s very un-Christian of you.

As far as the Bishops are concerned, I am continued to be amazed by the attitude of some of my conservative brothers and sisters. The definition of “cafeteria Catholic” is a Catholic who selectively decides which teaching to follow and rejects that which doesn’t jibe with his/her ideals, right?

You don’t see any Novus Ordo laypeople actively advocating for the cancellation of the recent Motu Proprio, do you?

 

[VAC]

CAT and Verdigirl,

I couldn’t add anything to what you have posted in this thread
You have both expressed my thoughts so beautifully.

You’re both on my buddy list

 

[RevDrNorth]

I usually adore going to Mass at my parish, and I look forward to Fr. Larry’s sermons.

A few times, however, I have been a little shocked by the song choices/Mass settings. During Lent, we had the very charismatic Jim Cowen Mass (if you have been to Franciscan, you know that Mass setting). Which was a little odd, IMHO, but the Triduum was very reverent and no Cowen.

Yesturday, however, one of the Communion songs was “Blessed Be Your Name”! Some parishioners in the back even started clapping!

I don’t know how to word my letter to Father, and the Music Minister… any suggestions?

(Sorry for the horrific spelling, I cannot seem to find the spellcheck button)

I think the song you are refering to is a very reverent contemporary Christian song. Probably not what you are used to.
Of course many contemporary Christian services use it and they clap and poeple are filled with a sense of awe and love of God.

Rev North

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I think the song you are refering to is a very reverent contemporary Christian song. Probably not what you are used to.
Of course many contemporary Christian services use it and they clap and poeple are filled with a sense of awe and love of God.

Rev North

Rev North-
I consider myself a Charismatic Traditionalist. I am right there in my mantilla and skirts with my hands in the air.
“Blessed Be Your Name” is one of my favorite praise songs and I enjoy when we sing it before Mass during P&W time.
However, the rhythm of the song, IMHO, is not suitable for Communion.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

It’s really sad that you think that those of us who are fed by Novus Ordo Masses are somehow devoid of the knowledge of the Real Presence. I think that’s a very prejudiced and unfair stance to take. You are trying to equate us with Protestants, and it’s very un-Christian of you.

**Um, I only ever attend the NO Mass. I’ve never said implicitly or explicitly that those of us (we) who attend the NO Mass are somehow devoid of the knowledge of the Real Presence (though I feel very comfortable saying that a great deal of the music played at Mass these days appears to be devoid of the knowledge of the Real Presence). **

As far as the Bishops are concerned, I am continued to be amazed by the attitude of some of my conservative brothers and sisters. The definition of “cafeteria Catholic” is a Catholic who selectively decides which teaching to follow and rejects that which doesn’t jibe with his/her ideals, right?** Sorry, but am I understanding you to say that the USCCB’s statement about folk music is an infallible one to which I must give my full assent of faith as a Catholic? Cafeteria-ism is a taking of what one likes (“abortion is wrong”) and rejecting what one doesn’t like (“but artificial birth control is OK”) of the Church’s teachings that touch on faith and morals, dogma and doctrine. We aren’t free to do that and remain Catholic. But we are perfectly free to call for a boycott of all Haugen and Hass music, or to question the value of the tamborine in striking the right note for an offering of the Holy Sacrifice. We are perfectly free, in conscience, to point out that some of the songs on offer at Mass are, at the very best, banal, and at the worst, downright heretical.**

You don’t see any Novus Ordo laypeople actively advocating for the cancellation of the recent Motu Proprio, do you?

Yes, actually, given that nuns are actually lay people, I’m pretty sure Sr. Joan Chichester, OSB, has decried the MP.

 

[RevDrNorth]

Rev North-
I consider myself a Charismatic Traditionalist. I am right there in my mantilla and skirts with my hands in the air.
“Blessed Be Your Name” is one of my favorite praise songs and I enjoy when we sing it before Mass during P&W time.
However, the rhythm of the song, IMHO, is not suitable for Communion.

Perhaps something more contemporary contemplative like John Michael Talbot?

Rev North

 

[verdigirl]

Um, I only ever attend the NO Mass. I’ve never said implicitly or explicitly that those of us (we) who attend the NO Mass are somehow devoid of the knowledge of the Real Presence (though I feel very comfortable saying that a great deal of the music played at Mass these days appears to be devoid of the knowledge of the Real Presence).

How does music have knowledge?

I will concede this. I think that some of the music we use at Mass is doctrinally unsound. I worry when music from the Protestant traditions make it into our Catholic Mass, because it all tends to be feel good and “yay, God!,” whereas our music is always theologically based. Personally, I think Communion songs need to be about the unity we share and/or the True Presence in the Eucharist. This is completely in line with the GIRM, but this is an issue about the TEXT of the music, not the stylistic qualities.

I take issue at the insinuation that somehow we don’t know that there is the Real Presence (assuming that there hasn’t been any funniness in the words of consecration). I appreciate your clarification.

Sorry, but am I understanding you to say that the USCCB’s statement about folk music is an infallible one to which I must give my full assent of faith as a Catholic?

Now, with all due respect to you, brother, this is downright silly. You know perfectly well that Bishops don’t enjoy infallibility. But I ask you: will you disobey your Bishop?

We are perfectly free, in conscience, to point out that some of the songs on offer at Mass are, at the very best, banal, and at the worst, downright heretical.

Agreed. 100 percent.

I will submit this to you. Let’s keep in mind that the music of parishes is only as good as their budget. I do a lot of work in the Hispanic community, and I often see Hispanic musicians with no formal training play the same 9 or 10 songs over and over because they just don’t have any other ability and because they are the ONLY ONES WHO WILL DO IT FOR FREE. There is no budget to (a) pay for music training classes to increase their ability or (b) hire a musician who has the expertise to play doctrinally-sound music well.

Hymns in four-part chorale setting can be tricky to play without training.

This happens a lot in the English-speaking world as well. I don’t mean to say that this is the reason why you don’t like the music, but it would help to be sensitive to the issues involved.

We have to take the best we can get and work toward the rest.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Perhaps something more contemporary contemplative like John Michael Talbot?

Rev North

Perhaps
I am actually a bit surprised that we don’t use more JMT

 

[RevDrNorth]

Perhaps
I am actually a bit surprised that we don’t use more JMT

Wonderful music.

Rev North

 

[the_phoenix]

Dear PatienceAndLove,

Well, now I will probably have “Blessed Be Your Name” stuck in my head all night long!

It’s definitely a cool song and I like it … Wouldn’t be my choice for a Communion hymn though.

What sort of Communion hymns do you usually have at your parish? Was this one Mass a departure from the norm?

As for charismatic style during all times of the year including Lent, am not familiar with Cowen by name. Having in the past attended Healing Masses presented in a “traditional charismatic” style, I can say that the lively music style seemed the same throughout the year, but what impressed me was that a high level of reverence was consistent throughout the year as well. The Mass was said by a visiting priest each week as part of Sister Monica’s Healing Service, and the reverence can be attributed to Sister Monica repeatedly placing emphasis on the importance of the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, Who was in our chapel.

These opinions brought to you by one who also very much loves the Latin Mass, as you can see by researching my other posts.

May your quest for prayerful meditation during Mass be fulfilled,

~~ the phoenix