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Nelio994
Guest
Code:
https://www.shofaronline.org/what-we-believe
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J
jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Nelio!
I’m not much of a reader/joiner, could you post a tenet or three so I can help you address them?
Maran atha!
Angel
I’m not much of a reader/joiner, could you post a tenet or three so I can help you address them?
Maran atha!
Angel
N
Nelio994
Guest
Hi, yes, they are quite strict in the sense that they view non-members as empty and unhappy. My girlfriend questioned if I ever “felt” the Holy Spirit like she does at the Shofar Church ( think emotionalism, lights, yelling and tears). I was asked to attend but I refuse as I feel that worship is through the Sacraments and not loud music or tears and lights.
There were reports that they are almost like a cult and I do worry for my girlfriend as it might be too late for me to evangelize her into the Catholic Faith.
There were reports that they are almost like a cult and I do worry for my girlfriend as it might be too late for me to evangelize her into the Catholic Faith.
J
jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Tom!
I think what you are referring to is Apostolic Succession; the continuance of the Church Funded by Christ through a line of Bishops (Apostles).
The term Apostle means one that is sent, with a Mission.
As the Church Unfolded vocabulary, Doctrine and titles were introduced.
The Catholic Church reserves the title of Apostles to the Twelve + One; these were in direct relationship with Christ: 1st Line of Church Teachers.
Bishop is rooted on the Greek epískopos, (overseer); a Priest that would administer a set region/boundary; since Public Revelation ceased, the Church does not use the term Apostle and an interchangeable value with Bishop.
Non-Catholics (from my experience) either reject all titles (and history) or claim certain titles, including Apostle/Bishop to mean that they have divine authority.
It is not about the Catholic Church believing that the Apostles were not supposed to be replaced; it is about Public Revelation.
Maran atha!
Angel
I think what you are referring to is Apostolic Succession; the continuance of the Church Funded by Christ through a line of Bishops (Apostles).
The term Apostle means one that is sent, with a Mission.
As the Church Unfolded vocabulary, Doctrine and titles were introduced.
The Catholic Church reserves the title of Apostles to the Twelve + One; these were in direct relationship with Christ: 1st Line of Church Teachers.
Bishop is rooted on the Greek epískopos, (overseer); a Priest that would administer a set region/boundary; since Public Revelation ceased, the Church does not use the term Apostle and an interchangeable value with Bishop.
Non-Catholics (from my experience) either reject all titles (and history) or claim certain titles, including Apostle/Bishop to mean that they have divine authority.
It is not about the Catholic Church believing that the Apostles were not supposed to be replaced; it is about Public Revelation.
Maran atha!
Angel
J
jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Nelio!
…this is nothing new; I’ve met up with those who swear that unless a person “speaks” in strange tongues they are not spiritual enough or are not true Believers… then there are the ones with the “miracles” or the ones with the “keys” or the ones with the decipher codes…
Sadly, cults are usually lead by people who have just enough familiarity with the Sacred Scriptures that they can paint themselves into a corner and claim the Holy Spirit placed them there… that coupled with the control they hold on their followers allows for the manipulation of the flock.
…about a decade or so ago a group of quite intelligent people committed mass suicide because they convinced themselves that God was coming to them in a spaceship in the tail of a comet–they needed to release their spiritual beings from their mortal bodies in order to be beamed up to salvation.
Your task is quite severe; you must Witness to your Loved ones; hold firm to your Catholic Faith; pray for them… and when and if it is possible, share the Truth (Jesus) in patience and love.
Maran atha!
Angel
…this is nothing new; I’ve met up with those who swear that unless a person “speaks” in strange tongues they are not spiritual enough or are not true Believers… then there are the ones with the “miracles” or the ones with the “keys” or the ones with the decipher codes…
Sadly, cults are usually lead by people who have just enough familiarity with the Sacred Scriptures that they can paint themselves into a corner and claim the Holy Spirit placed them there… that coupled with the control they hold on their followers allows for the manipulation of the flock.
…about a decade or so ago a group of quite intelligent people committed mass suicide because they convinced themselves that God was coming to them in a spaceship in the tail of a comet–they needed to release their spiritual beings from their mortal bodies in order to be beamed up to salvation.
Your task is quite severe; you must Witness to your Loved ones; hold firm to your Catholic Faith; pray for them… and when and if it is possible, share the Truth (Jesus) in patience and love.
Maran atha!
Angel
J
jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Tom!
Why are you making such assertions?
Just because I am Catholic from birth, I cannot claim to speak for the Church in all matters of Doctrine.
The way you view the Sacred Scriptures is like a romance/sci fi novel; you read it and make assumptions and make determinations based upon your assumptions and not upon Scriptures–that’s called eisegesis.
Not every group/body that claims to be Christian is accepted as Christian.
Not every “Baptism” is accepted/recognized as “Baptism” because the element of water is used.
Maran atha!
Angel
Why are you making such assertions?
Just because I am Catholic from birth, I cannot claim to speak for the Church in all matters of Doctrine.
The way you view the Sacred Scriptures is like a romance/sci fi novel; you read it and make assumptions and make determinations based upon your assumptions and not upon Scriptures–that’s called eisegesis.
Not every group/body that claims to be Christian is accepted as Christian.
Not every “Baptism” is accepted/recognized as “Baptism” because the element of water is used.
Maran atha!
Angel
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Nelio994
Guest
Hi, Thank you for the responses so far, I am also trying hard to dissect this “church” and have read articles of apparent cult ties in the local papers. I am keeping hard to my faith and answering any questions my girlfriend throws at me with as much accuracy as possible, I pray in time she learns and realises.
M
MichaelP3
Guest
Hi Nelio
I am from South Africa and have a Shofar church 2 km from my house. I have attended it twice. There is nothing different to this Church then Lighthouse or Doxa Deo you would also find in SA.
I am not into all the singing and handwaving myself and that’s maybe why I have not gone again but that is nothing new from the Charismatics. The sermons are also 99% of the time more like a motivational speaker with little depth.
I am not sure what you mean by saying they “cult related”? I have not heard or seen anything of the sort and would be interested if you can refer me to these papers?
There is a big discussion on here about Apostles and Bishops and Shofar and I think that is missing the point. I sincerely doubt Shofar pastors can even name the Apostles let alone think what they “are”. We are talking here about pastors who did a very short “not even accredited” course.
So what I am saying, from a Catholic viewpoint you can just worry that she is not Catholic but being in Shofar is no different then being in any other Charismatic Church.
Regards
I am from South Africa and have a Shofar church 2 km from my house. I have attended it twice. There is nothing different to this Church then Lighthouse or Doxa Deo you would also find in SA.
I am not into all the singing and handwaving myself and that’s maybe why I have not gone again but that is nothing new from the Charismatics. The sermons are also 99% of the time more like a motivational speaker with little depth.
I am not sure what you mean by saying they “cult related”? I have not heard or seen anything of the sort and would be interested if you can refer me to these papers?
There is a big discussion on here about Apostles and Bishops and Shofar and I think that is missing the point. I sincerely doubt Shofar pastors can even name the Apostles let alone think what they “are”. We are talking here about pastors who did a very short “not even accredited” course.
So what I am saying, from a Catholic viewpoint you can just worry that she is not Catholic but being in Shofar is no different then being in any other Charismatic Church.
Regards
J
jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Tom!
Again, you are well versed; but you group things according to your determinate understanding.
There’s no extinction of Christ Founded Church; the only thing is progress in vocabulary and Unfolding of Doctrine; which happens to begin right from Scriptures… simple things as the Way changed to Christianity and the intro of terms such as Bishop, Deacons, etc.
As for any body that takes on a term or an office… well, that’s the way of the world. The second that people made it their “right” to make themselves into the “church” of Christ it has been happening.
Now, the only way for a body to claim autonomy is to reject or raze the existing body of Authority; hence, the surfacing of the various groups that dissented from the Apostles, the schism of the East and West, and the Luther revolt (which includes the myriads of schism/splintering till today).
The scientology thing claims to be a church–yet, at least their tenets are clearly not based upon Christ’s Founded Church; in that they are puritans.
Maran atha!
Angel
Again, you are well versed; but you group things according to your determinate understanding.
There’s no extinction of Christ Founded Church; the only thing is progress in vocabulary and Unfolding of Doctrine; which happens to begin right from Scriptures… simple things as the Way changed to Christianity and the intro of terms such as Bishop, Deacons, etc.
As for any body that takes on a term or an office… well, that’s the way of the world. The second that people made it their “right” to make themselves into the “church” of Christ it has been happening.
Now, the only way for a body to claim autonomy is to reject or raze the existing body of Authority; hence, the surfacing of the various groups that dissented from the Apostles, the schism of the East and West, and the Luther revolt (which includes the myriads of schism/splintering till today).
The scientology thing claims to be a church–yet, at least their tenets are clearly not based upon Christ’s Founded Church; in that they are puritans.
Maran atha!
Angel
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Nelio994
Guest
Hi Micheal,
From what my girlfriend tells me of their sermons it is very bare of scripture and more about motivation. She was also speaking of a confession with one of their pastors where members can confess in a pretty dramatic fashion and it apparently changes people.
The cult information I have is poor, it is mainly an assessment a group of friends and I have done on their views and practices. Will give a link with a dated article, things should be different now.
abreakfastclub.wordpress.com
My main worry with my girlfriend attending the Shofar church is that it is dividing us members of Shofar (at least the one close to me) does not allow anyone to date non-members or they criticise the Catholic Church quite heavily. I do appreciate the thoughtful response!
From what my girlfriend tells me of their sermons it is very bare of scripture and more about motivation. She was also speaking of a confession with one of their pastors where members can confess in a pretty dramatic fashion and it apparently changes people.
The cult information I have is poor, it is mainly an assessment a group of friends and I have done on their views and practices. Will give a link with a dated article, things should be different now.
Shofar Christian Cult?
I am still busy typing up my notes from the last meeting. Exams has this tendency to take up a lot of time. Here is an interesting article I found on the web via the an anti-Shofar Facebook group. …
abreakfastclub.wordpress.com
My main worry with my girlfriend attending the Shofar church is that it is dividing us members of Shofar (at least the one close to me) does not allow anyone to date non-members or they criticise the Catholic Church quite heavily. I do appreciate the thoughtful response!
J
jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Tom!
…again, could you show how the Catholic Church exterminated all those people?
Hitler was claimed to have been Catholic, so do you make the same assertions for his blood-thirst quest to rule the world?
Maran atha!
Angel
…again, could you show how the Catholic Church exterminated all those people?
Hitler was claimed to have been Catholic, so do you make the same assertions for his blood-thirst quest to rule the world?
Maran atha!
Angel
J
jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Tom!
I was offering that as one of various examples that sect/groups tend to mark their “spirituality.”
I have no idea what the Shofar is or what they stand for.
Maran atha!
Angel
I was offering that as one of various examples that sect/groups tend to mark their “spirituality.”
I have no idea what the Shofar is or what they stand for.
Maran atha!
Angel
J
jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Nelio!
This is the strongest weapon you have: love, patience, and prayer.
It’s like that old saying, ‘you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink it.’
Maran atha!
Angel
This is the strongest weapon you have: love, patience, and prayer.
It’s like that old saying, ‘you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink it.’
Maran atha!
Angel
J
jcrichton
Guest
J
jcrichton
Guest
I concur, this is part of a cult/cultist group and the way to place themselves as the authority: raze Catholicism and claim the identity as the “true” church of Christ/God.
Maran atha!
Angel
M
MichaelP3
Guest
Hi again
I don’t know. I would take that “kinda blog article” with a spoon of salt. It is probably possible… I don’t know.
I was asked by a co-worker to attend and that is how I did. After two times I never attended again and she never even noticed or didn’t bring it up without being weird. And she attends and leads and I don’t even know what kind of events there. Basically when I attended everyone knew who she was. So I would expect her to be a “high level” (Another thing I do think is nonsense) as the article pointed out and no word ever again. We still work together and she is pretty normal…
The people confessing or saying things or whatever is common to Charismatics again. That you will see in all of them.
I attended a camping trip when I was still studying with friends that was organised with Doxa Deo (Which in my opinion is basically Shofar) and we were in small “groups” having religious talks. The Catholic Criticism happens but not because it is this crusade against Catholicism. These people don’t go to Church and learn about much except lift up your arms and believe. They actually do not know much more. So the Criticism I experienced was actually against the traditional Dutch Reformed in SA than the Catholics. Just because they have probably not even met a Catholic before. So it is not a Catholic Criticism but basically anyone else they are aware of.
Also, these things that happened, was it a sermon or a “small group”?
Do they actually prohibit outside dating? What is the penalty if you don’t? Do they watch her? I don’t know but this seems a bit “extravagant”.
Otherwise, just attend a service with her. Worst case you will find it dull and boring (as I did) but not insulting. (Not including certain variables that may also attend, but that is anywhere).
Regards
I don’t know. I would take that “kinda blog article” with a spoon of salt. It is probably possible… I don’t know.
I was asked by a co-worker to attend and that is how I did. After two times I never attended again and she never even noticed or didn’t bring it up without being weird. And she attends and leads and I don’t even know what kind of events there. Basically when I attended everyone knew who she was. So I would expect her to be a “high level” (Another thing I do think is nonsense) as the article pointed out and no word ever again. We still work together and she is pretty normal…
The people confessing or saying things or whatever is common to Charismatics again. That you will see in all of them.
I attended a camping trip when I was still studying with friends that was organised with Doxa Deo (Which in my opinion is basically Shofar) and we were in small “groups” having religious talks. The Catholic Criticism happens but not because it is this crusade against Catholicism. These people don’t go to Church and learn about much except lift up your arms and believe. They actually do not know much more. So the Criticism I experienced was actually against the traditional Dutch Reformed in SA than the Catholics. Just because they have probably not even met a Catholic before. So it is not a Catholic Criticism but basically anyone else they are aware of.
Also, these things that happened, was it a sermon or a “small group”?
Do they actually prohibit outside dating? What is the penalty if you don’t? Do they watch her? I don’t know but this seems a bit “extravagant”.
Otherwise, just attend a service with her. Worst case you will find it dull and boring (as I did) but not insulting. (Not including certain variables that may also attend, but that is anywhere).
Regards
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Nelio994
Guest
Hi Michael,
The article is not the most accurate I agree but it was the only online article out there (only links to Shofar online was the next best bet).
The Shofar Church I am speaking of is in Namibia and the Moeder Gemeente and Catholic Church are targeted by the local Shofar members.
Things that happened? I think I may have lost you with that question.
They do not explicitely prohibit outside dating but my girlfriend has a few friends as members and they do not really approve of our relationship. Doubt they would interfere (not their business).
I will attend a service when I am back in Namibia again, I do doubt I will return. I saw quite a few videos online and I do not enjoy worshipping with emotionalism involved.
Regards!
The article is not the most accurate I agree but it was the only online article out there (only links to Shofar online was the next best bet).
The Shofar Church I am speaking of is in Namibia and the Moeder Gemeente and Catholic Church are targeted by the local Shofar members.
Things that happened? I think I may have lost you with that question.
They do not explicitely prohibit outside dating but my girlfriend has a few friends as members and they do not really approve of our relationship. Doubt they would interfere (not their business).
I will attend a service when I am back in Namibia again, I do doubt I will return. I saw quite a few videos online and I do not enjoy worshipping with emotionalism involved.
Regards!
J
jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Tom!
I think that you’ve answered quite well.
The Catholic Church is blamed for the downing of the Roman empire; she is blamed for the dark ages; she is blamed for the crusades, she is blamed for the Spanish inquisition; she is blamed for millions dying under the claimed Christian wars, she is blamed for the millions dying under the secular wars, she is blamed for keeping women down, she is blame…
If you want to study an issue simply claiming “this” or “that” is not enough.
There are people still claiming that the Catholic Church hindered science and murdered all those brilliant scholars and theologians that opposed her; even the mumbo jumbo sold as the Da Vinci Code is slurped up as fact… (I suspect you have been followed by some albino squad of Roman Catholic Priests for years, right?)
Since it seems that you want to really engage on this matter, why not open a thread with a quote that we can follow and study the actual records and not just the anti-Catholic propaganda… which began at the Church’s infancy (Romans believe that ‘those people are cannibals…’).
Maran atha!
Angel
I think that you’ve answered quite well.
The Catholic Church is blamed for the downing of the Roman empire; she is blamed for the dark ages; she is blamed for the crusades, she is blamed for the Spanish inquisition; she is blamed for millions dying under the claimed Christian wars, she is blamed for the millions dying under the secular wars, she is blamed for keeping women down, she is blame…
If you want to study an issue simply claiming “this” or “that” is not enough.
There are people still claiming that the Catholic Church hindered science and murdered all those brilliant scholars and theologians that opposed her; even the mumbo jumbo sold as the Da Vinci Code is slurped up as fact… (I suspect you have been followed by some albino squad of Roman Catholic Priests for years, right?)
Since it seems that you want to really engage on this matter, why not open a thread with a quote that we can follow and study the actual records and not just the anti-Catholic propaganda… which began at the Church’s infancy (Romans believe that ‘those people are cannibals…’).
Maran atha!
Angel
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J
jcrichton
Guest
Tom, did you also bring all your possessions and put it at the foot of the Altar so that the waving could Bless them before distribution to the needy?
Maran atha!
Angel
Maran atha!
Angel
po18guy
Well-known member
Look into how easy it is to leave the group. Assemblies that claim to be Christian and which make it very easy to join, yet very difficult to leave raise an immediate red flag. Jesus taught that it is difficult to follow him (Luke 9:23 and others) and very easy to leave (John 6:66 and others).
Also, it might be beneficial to ask your loved one where Jesus taught that feelings have anything to do with His presence; where He taught that the bible is how the faith is meant to be passed on; that the Shofar Church has divine authoty to retain and hand the faith on.
If you can, listen to Dr. David Anders’ readio show “Called to Communion.” He addresses concerns such as yous on a daily basis.
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