Shooting at Muhammad cartoon contest in Texas

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If there is no longer the commitment or the will to annihilate Islamists on the battlefield, then all that is left is to defeat Islamism in the battlefield of ideas. That is where Pamela Geller is now.

In order to defeat an opponent in a debate, according to what set of rules would it be consider imporoper to actually criticize and expose the faulty ideas of one’s opponent?

This is really nonsense that people take a stand against David Spencer or Pamela Geller when the enemy is really much more reprehensible than anything that could ever be said about it.
 
I am uncomfortable with people who feel the need to give any respect at all to the faith of Islamists. Mocking a faith that has reopened the slave market where young girls are sold as sex toys seems to me to be too mild a response actually.
In fairness, to estebob, I understand why he would be uncomfortable to mock the faith of others, i.e., I would not want such a thing done to mine.

p.s. “Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you” pretty much sums it up.
 
In fairness, to estebob, I understand why he would be uncomfortable to mock the faith of others, i.e., I would not want such a thing done to mine.

p.s. “Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you” pretty much sums it up.
But what is being done to Islam is always happening to Christianity… We let it go, without cutting off a single head. 🤷
 
If there is no longer the commitment or the will to annihilate Islamists on the battlefield, then all that is left is to defeat Islamism in the battlefield of ideas. That is where Pamela Geller is now.

In order to defeat an opponent in a debate, according to what set of rules would it be consider imporoper to actually criticize and expose the faulty ideas of one’s opponent?

This is really nonsense that people take a stand against David Spencer or Pamela Geller when the enemy is really much more reprehensible than anything that could ever be said about it.
People can take a stand against Islamism without necessarily agreeing with every aspect of Robert Spencer’s and/or Pamela Geller’s approach/arguments against Islam.

But I do agree that those who disagree in totality with Robert Spencer and/or Pamela Geller’s views of Islam are in denial and dangerous (not intentionally so).
 
But what is being done to Islam is always happening to Christianity… We let it go, without cutting off a single head. 🤷
And that’s the way it should be, i.e., we are to emulate Christ.
 
People can take a stand against Islamism without necessarily agreeing with every aspect of Robert Spencer’s and/or Pamela Geller’s approach/arguments against Islam.

But I do agree that those who disagree in totality with Robert Spencer and/or Pamela Geller’s views of Islam are in denial and dangerous (not intentionally so).
So, I assume everyone who finds fault with a cartoon contest as Garland had (and the mayor of Garland did come out and speak against it) , also finds these following headlines objectionable from Salon:
**Marco Rubio’s deranged religion, Ted Cruz’s bizarre faith: Our would-be presidents are God-fearing clowns ** - salon.com/2015/04/19/marco_rubios_deranged_religion_ted_cruzs_bizarre_faith_our_would_be_presidents_are_god_fearing_clowns/
Pretty mean words from Salon along with this:
**
Ted Cruz, our ayatollah: Fight back now, or welcome to the 2016 religious right hellstorm **- salon.com/2015/05/03/ted_cruz_our_ayatollah_fight_back_now_or_welcome_to_the_2016_religious_right_hellstorm/
Funny, these words knock two different faiths, I haven’t heard how irreverent, sacrilegious they seem to be along with the Daily Kos’ “American Taliban” describing the Tea Party.

Let alone, politically incorrect, I hardly can see how they can get away with this.

It really seems to be business as usual.
 
I took the quotes down because they are inflammatory but it is amazing that Salon, Daily Kos and others are not cited for what they have written. Maybe that even includes some of the talking heads on MSNBC as well.

There is a real inconsistency here.
 
Hardly nothing. We’re not having a history class here, we’re talking about real world current affairs.
 
As you say, it is a thin line when the reason apparently for acting in these ways is ideologically tied to the faith
.
We can all now agree that burning witches is not something that we can support. We can also note that there is Biblical justification for this. Criticism of the faith is a necessary component of getting from the auto-de-fe of an earlier time to where Wiccans will now be tolerated, no matter how weird.
Following the example of Mohammed, the ayatollahs found justification for child brides. Whether it is hateful or not to point this out is beside the point. Criticism is a necessary component of changing a practice that has no place in the modern world.
Let’s say Same-Sex Marriage advocates dislike Christians using the Bible or other beliefs to be against Same-Sex Marriage. A cartoon protesting this ideology does not seem improper to me.
Mockery has been a very effective weapon against Christian values. Nobody likes to be the brunt of a joke, and that is how people have been driven away from Christian values.
Why the kid gloves then, when it comes to making a mockery of actual heinous practices to shame people away from identifying with these values at all?
Portraying Christianity in other ways just to blaspheme it, I would take offense too but of course, in a limited way, the thing would be to organize a boycott or something against whom would do such.
I think Christians might even want to settle for restraining government funding of anti-Christian blasphemy. It is government funded art exhibits that has put the blasphemy on display.

The cartoons seem to strike a nerve. We don’t out of respect for this forum, put up the graphics but again, the original Danish cartoons years ago seem to be valid political commentary to me.
Not just gratuitously, mocking the faith.
Hebdo is gratuitous. Pamela Geller and David Spencer are for all intents and purposes serious actors in this field of debate.

To other commentary:
911 changed Geller a lot.
Like Judge Jeannine Pirro’s views when she ran for office, I would not be firm in my belief that Geller share’s say, pro-life views per her background. So I may not agree with all of her stances, it is mainly in this area, I contemplate what she has done.
Likely the same can be said about Hirsi Ali, who is very much a liberal, and who has likewise come under death threats for speaking out against the religiously held practices that led to her genital mutilation, among other things.
Ought Catholics withhold support of her cause, because she is an atheist?
I certainly don’t back gratuitous blasphemy of a religion, on the other hand, there was once the Aztec religion and human sacrifice. Just because it is a religion does not seem to mark it as beyond criticism.
Even Christianity and Catholicism cannot be held beyond criticism. Pope Benedict’s theology that the blood of Christ could never be a curse on anyone’s head is a wonderful theology, but it likely would never have come about if critics had not pointed out the anti-semitism in the New Testament.
Reform and growth is an essential part of Christianity, and any valid religion. Jesus compared himself to a single seed and us to the entire field that grows from that seed. It is the growth of the field that makes that sacrifice worthwhile, they becoming something even more significant.
There is a lot of pruning and weeding involved in horticulture.
 
God said it better.
Pamela Geller is in good company with her ‘hate’.
These are the kinds of things that God hates too.
What the Lord Rejects
16
There are six things the LORD hates,
yes, seven* are an abomination to him;
17
  • Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
    hands that shed innocent blood,
    18
    A heart that plots wicked schemes,
    feet that are quick to run to evil,
    19
    The false witness who utters lies,
    and the one who sows discord among kindred.
 
God said it better.
Pamela Geller is in good company with her ‘hate’.
These are the kinds of things that God hates too.
I don’t know if I would go as far as judging the intentions of others. For all I know Pamela can be fighting for what she believes is a good cause for free speech, etc. Her motives might not be hate as some quickly judge they are.
 
I am never comfortable with mocking another’s faith.
Ditto. I don’t care for what Geller is doing any more than I care for Serrano’s “art” or Professor Myers’ desecration of the Eucharist.

However, they all have the legal right to do what they do. And the responsibility for any violent response lies completely with the perpetrators.
 
The rhetoric is from the left against them, and happily, it rings through loud and clear.
 
I am uncomfortable with people who feel the need to give any respect at all to the faith of Islamists. Mocking a faith that has reopened the slave market where young girls are sold as sex toys seems to me to be too mild a response actually.
I have many Muslim clients some of whom I am honored to call friend . I don’t condemn them or their Faith based on the actions of others . None of them, by the way, support slavery or using young girls as sex toys. I believe there is no justification whatsoever for attacking this event and that Ms. Geller had every right to hold it. It was, however, deliberately planned to mock the Muslim pfaith and that I don’t support
 
The rhetoric involves reducing Pamela Geller and David Spencer as haters, bigots and engaging in the wild rhetoric of insulting others religions, even as that ‘religion’ propagates
slave markets for child sex toys, and wiping out Jews that are hiding behind the trees and what not.

The pope may not be as conservative as some of his predecessors, but, happily, the pope is not making those kinds post here.
 
I took the quotes down because they are inflammatory but it is amazing that Salon, Daily Kos and others are not cited for what they have written. Maybe that even includes some of the talking heads on MSNBC as well.

There is a real inconsistency here.
No doubt about it. Those who vehemently defended" **** Christ" now attack Ms. Greer for a much milder attack on Islam.
 
I have many Muslim clients some of whom I am honored to call friend .
As do I, if this is to be reduced to the personal.
I don’t condemn them or their Faith based on the actions of others .
The faith of ISIS and the aytatollahs and the Muslim Brotherhood, and el quada and the Taliban is not being condemned based on the actions of your friends, but on the actions of ISIS and El quada, and etc etc etc.
None of them, by the way, support slavery or using young girls as sex toys.
ISIS does. The ayatollahs of the Iranian theocracy support child brides, which is pretty much the same thing.
The criticisms against Islam are not directed against those who hate this, but against those who love this.
I believe there is no justification whatsoever for attacking this event and that Ms. Geller had every right to hold it. It was, however, deliberately planned to mock the Muslim faith and that I don’t support
If the Muslim faith can be reduced to the actions of ISIS et al, then hour caricature of Pamela Geller is correct.
Personally, it ought not be reduced to that, I don’t think, for to do so is to assume that the faith of all Muslims is the same.
 
I have many Muslim clients some of whom I am honored to call friend . I don’t condemn them or their Faith based on the actions of others . None of them, by the way, support slavery or using young girls as sex toys. I believe there is no justification whatsoever for attacking this event and that Ms. Geller had every right to hold it. It was, however, deliberately planned to mock the Muslim pfaith and that I don’t support
I’d say they are exposing Extremism and I’m not sure if it is about mocking a faith.

Again, if witch-burning was something some Church believed in, that should be exposed. Or say, a Church perceived as extreme like Westboro Baptist.
 
I took the quotes down because they are inflammatory but it is amazing that Salon, Daily Kos and others are not cited for what they have written. Maybe that even includes some of the talking heads on MSNBC as well.

There is a real inconsistency here.
Yes, I agree there is inconsistency, moreover, I deplore any and all inflammatory statements that obfuscate rather than elucidate.
 
Yes, I agree there is inconsistency, moreover, I deplore any and all inflammatory statements that obfuscate rather than elucidate.
I did a websearch of Westboro Baptist cartoons. They were aimed at how we perceive Westboro Baptist and let that suffice as a description. I didn’t see it as pertaining to all Christianity.
 
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