Shooting, Explosion Reported in Paris

[oldcatholicguy]

You can’t be pro-refugee one minute and then anti-terror attack the next. The one leads inexorably to the other. The attacks in France are the culmination and apotheosis of multiculturalism–the condescending attitude that culture is meaningless, that vast moral and ethnic differences can be summed up primly as “diversity” and emptily celebrated.

Send them back!

So the pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, anti-religion, pro-materialism, pro-“It’s all about me” culture of modern Europe is something we should view as having a positive value?

As to being pro-refugee and anti-terror being mutually exclusive, you came to this conclusion based upon what? The fact that most of the terror attacks taking place in the West involve radicalized non-refugees?

 

[Darryl1958]

Summarizing in short the below, they will have to have metal detectors at concert venues it sounds like, wherever there are large gatherings.

I’ve been to sports events and the ones I have been to, one empties out all metal on the desk now.

Apparently, these kinds of measures were in force at the sports stadium.

Unfortunately, it looks to me like these measures were not in effect at the sight of the rock concert, so they were able to get them, mostly if not all, young people.

Now, these measures will have to be in force virtually everywhere.

Even with the bombs going off outside of the stadium because they got in and having shrapnel bombs, it sounds like only one civilian died in this, whereas it could have been worse, much worse and possibly starting a stampede per one article which they say the terrorists would have wanted.

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So as to news, I heard they are pursuing a suspect who is a woman per Drudge Report.

And just like in England, I see the French this morning, are upset that apparently there might be radical clerics there where this theology of radicalism is expounded on.

It is not just concerts and football matches that are the targets. Soft targets extend to malls, and to parades and to coffee shops and city buses and anywhere there is a crowd.

 

[meltzerboy]

I don’t know what that means, but if any of the attackers were refugees, and it were my country, I would start thinking about closing the borders to refugees.

Perhaps this is a necessary, hopefully temporary, measure. At the least, tightening border control seems to be called for, particularly in Europe where I understand there are little restrictions.

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTE

I had to delete some posts. Please remain charitable when posting at CAF and follow our rules.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Perhaps this is a necessary, hopefully temporary, measure. At the least, tightening border control seems to be called for, particularly in Europe where I understand there are little restrictions.

Completely closing the borders to refugees won’t work. Even if we ignore the moral issues involved, Europe is too geographically close to the conflicts to not be the first choice for the refugees to head to regardless if they are welcomed in or not. An illegal refugee in Europe is better off than a legal refugee in any of the other easy to get to regions in the area. Wanted or not, the refugees are still going to head toward Europe.

 

[meltzerboy]

Completely closing the borders to refugees won’t work. Even if we ignore the moral issues involved, Europe is too geographically close to the conflicts to not be the first choice for the refugees to head to regardless if they are welcomed in or not. An illegal refugee in Europe is better off than a legal refugee in any of the other easy to get to regions in the area. Wanted or not, the refugees are still going to head toward Europe.

Moral concerns and political ones, logistic challenges, as well as domestic issues: this is why I don’t envy the position and responsibilities of European leaders at this time in history. I also think the future POTUS will surely have his/her hands full (and must be a little mad for wanting the job).

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Moral concerns and political ones, logistic challenges, as well as domestic issues: this is why I don’t envy the position and responsibilities of European leaders at this time in history. I also think the future POTUS will surely have his/her hands full (and must be a little mad for wanting the job).

Sadly, I don’t see any of the people currently running for the job doing anything more than maybe throwing some advisors and some money at the issue. As far as most Americans are concerned, it’s a European problem.

 

[TaurusRex]

An illegal refugee in Europe is better off than a legal refugee in any of the other easy to get to regions in the area. Wanted or not, the refugees are still going to head toward Europe.

To do the work of Allah?

Forgive me OldCatholicGuy …
had to cancel my previous response, but many innocent young people died because of some butchers believing they did the work of Allah;

So because there may be more of them among the refugees,
Jesus says: "Satan be gone: ,:;
And fellow Christians say: “It’s time to beat our plowshares into swords”.

rex

 

[oldcatholicguy]

To do the work of Allah?

Forgive me OldCatholicGuy …
had to cancel my previous response, but many innocent young people died because of some butchers believing they did the work of Allah;

So because there may be more of them among the refugees,
Jesus says: "Satan be gone: ,:;
And fellow Christians say: “It’s time to beat our plowshares into swords”.

rex

So, the refugees are all guilty of being terrorists because ISIS used the refugee crisis to infiltrate agents into Europe?

 

[gilliam]

Muslim reaction to Paris: “There is nothing Islamic about such people and their actions are evil”

A lot of condemnations here: aleteia.org/blogs/deacon-greg-kandra/l76952/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_term=Autofeed#link_time=1447608876

 

[pepipop]

Sadly, I don’t see any of the people currently running for the job doing anything more than maybe throwing some advisors and some money at the issue. As far as most Americans are concerned, it’s a European problem.

Who ignited the problem?

Many American sources admit ISIS was formed due to Bush’s ‘foreign’ policy, in addition to the help of the usual Western ‘allies’, and hence the resulting refugee crisis.

Needless to say, the refugees haven’t the funds, nor the means, to fly everyone half way across the world. So it’s a case of - we’re all right Jack!

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq

*A revealing light on how we got here has now been shone by a recently declassified secret US intelligence report, written in August 2012, which uncannily predicts – and effectively welcomes – the prospect of a “Salafist principality” in eastern Syria and an al-Qaida-controlled Islamic state in Syria and Iraq. In stark contrast to western claims at the time, the Defense Intelligence Agency document identifies al-Qaida in Iraq (which became Isis) and fellow Salafists as the “major forces driving the insurgency in Syria” – and states that “western countries, the Gulf states and Turkey” were supporting the opposition’s efforts to take control of eastern Syria.

A year into the Syrian rebellion, the US and its allies weren’t only supporting and arming an opposition they knew to be dominated by extreme sectarian groups; they were prepared to countenance the creation of some sort of “Islamic state” – despite the “grave danger” to Iraq’s unity – as a Sunni buffer to weaken Syria.

That doesn’t mean the US created Isis, of course, though some of its Gulf allies certainly played a role in it – as the US vice-president, Joe Biden, acknowledged last year. But there was no al-Qaida in Iraq until the US and Britain invaded. And the US has certainly exploited the existence of Isis against other forces in the region as part of a wider drive to maintain western control.*

newyorker.com/news/news-desk/did-george-w-bush-create-isis

washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/newly-declassified-u-s-government-documents-the-west-supported-the-creation-of-isis.html

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Who ignited the problem?

Many American sources admit ISIS was formed due to Bush’s ‘foreign’ policy, in addition to the help of the usual Western ‘allies’, and hence the resulting refugee crisis.

Needless to say, the refugees haven’t the funds, nor the means, to fly everyone half way across the world. So it’s a case of - we’re all right Jack!

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq

*A revealing light on how we got here has now been shone by a recently declassified secret US intelligence report, written in August 2012, which uncannily predicts – and effectively welcomes – the prospect of a “Salafist principality” in eastern Syria and an al-Qaida-controlled Islamic state in Syria and Iraq. In stark contrast to western claims at the time, the Defense Intelligence Agency document identifies al-Qaida in Iraq (which became Isis) and fellow Salafists as the “major forces driving the insurgency in Syria” – and states that “western countries, the Gulf states and Turkey” were supporting the opposition’s efforts to take control of eastern Syria.

A year into the Syrian rebellion, the US and its allies weren’t only supporting and arming an opposition they knew to be dominated by extreme sectarian groups; they were prepared to countenance the creation of some sort of “Islamic state” – despite the “grave danger” to Iraq’s unity – as a Sunni buffer to weaken Syria.

That doesn’t mean the US created Isis, of course, though some of its Gulf allies certainly played a role in it – as the US vice-president, Joe Biden, acknowledged last year. But there was no al-Qaida in Iraq until the US and Britain invaded. And the US has certainly exploited the existence of Isis against other forces in the region as part of a wider drive to maintain western control.*

newyorker.com/news/news-desk/did-george-w-bush-create-isis

washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/newly-declassified-u-s-government-documents-the-west-supported-the-creation-of-isis.html

None of which actually matters in regards to how most Americans view the refugee crisis. “It’s not happening here, it’s not our problem.” pretty much sums up the history of the American public’s view toward world events.

 

[pepipop]

None of which actually matters in regards to how most Americans view the refugee crisis. “It’s not happening here, it’s not our problem.” pretty much sums up the history of the American public’s view toward world events.

True enough. If it the situation was reversed no doubt the same would apply, in Europe.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

True enough. If it the situation was reversed no doubt the same would apply, in Europe.

Actually, Europeans have a rather good track record (at least when compared to the US’s) of viewing non-European based world events as something they should be concerned about/involved with resolving. This is probably a result of Europe’s history of colonialism and world empires.

 

[pepipop]

Actually, Europeans have a rather good track record (at least when compared to the US’s) of viewing non-European based world events as something they should be concerned about/involved with resolving. This is probably a result of Europe’s history of colonialism and world empires.

Your last statement though is much more applicable to the USA global policeman role, over the past several decades - as opposed to anything the Europeans have done in that vein, especially in the past 30-40 if not many more years.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Your last statement though is much more applicable to the USA global policeman role, over the past several decades - as opposed to anything the Europeans have done in that vein, especially in the past 30-40 if not many more years.

The mantle of global police was picked up by the US due to the Cold War; and it’s popularity among the American public has been diminishing rapidly since the end of it. Americans are historically isolationists.

 

[Seamus_L]

France is fighting unwinnable war against terror telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11996323/France-is-fighting-unwinnable-war-against-terror.html

                                             From the article

                                              Disaffected Muslim populations at home, unpoliced European borders and battle-hardened fighters now flowing in from Syria and Iraq were creating a perfect storm of terror that is now in danger of defeating the French security services.

France is estimated to have 2,000 citizens involved in Syrian and Iraq jihadi networks and a further 3,800 individuals known to domestic intelligence services as “radicalised”, all watched over by just 3,200 intelligence officers.

 

[TaurusRex]

So, the refugees are all guilty of being terrorists because ISIS used the refugee crisis to infiltrate agents into Europe?

France is fighting unwinnable war against terror telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11996323/France-is-fighting-unwinnable-war-against-terror.html

                                             From the article

                                              Disaffected Muslim populations at home, unpoliced European borders and battle-hardened fighters now flowing in from Syria and Iraq were creating a perfect storm of terror that is now in danger of defeating the French security services.

France is estimated to have 2,000 citizens involved in Syrian and Iraq jihadi networks and a further 3,800 individuals known to domestic intelligence services as “radicalised”, all watched over by just 3,200 intelligence officers.

OldCatholicGuy,
the French may have tarnished the view of devout Catholics upon them, but I’m sure Jesus still loves them and I present the post of Seamus to help answer you because the large Muslim population of France has them at their wit’s end to contain future terrorism against them;
And you want them to allow more possible jihadist Muslim terrorists via refugees into their country.
That just seems nonsensical to me and it also seems nonsensical to me for any European country now committed to make war with Muslim jihadist terrorists to welcome refugees.

You call yourself “old”, well I’m also old enough to remember when cartoons and comedy movies were made about North African and Mid Eastern quick change artists doing their sneaky demonism and then hiding even in the guise of women
And then immediately doing a repeat performance of their evil when the coast was clear.

Muslim jihadist terrorists seem to be incorrigible people that need to be stopped
Before we’re unable to stop them.

rex

 

[oldcatholicguy]

OldCatholicGuy,
the French may have tarnished the view of devout Catholics upon them, but I’m sure Jesus still loves them and I present the post of Seamus to help answer you because the large Muslim population of France has them at their wit’s end to contain future terrorism against them;
And you want them to allow more possible jihadist Muslim terrorists via refugees into their country.
That just seems nonsensical to me and it also seems nonsensical to me for any European country now committed to make war with Muslim jihadist terrorists to welcome refugees.

You call yourself “old”, well I’m also old enough to remember when cartoons and comedy movies were made about North African and Mid Eastern quick change artists doing their sneaky demonism and then hiding even in the guise of women
And then immediately doing a repeat performance of their evil when the coast was clear.

Muslim jihadist terrorists seem to be incorrigible people that need to be stopped
Before we’re unable to stop them.

rex

First, you didn’t actually answer my question. Are the refugees all guilty of being terrorists because ISIS used the refugee crisis to infiltrate agents into Europe?

Second, you’re citing cartoons and movies as legitimate sources of information?

 

[TaurusRex]

Re: [BREAKING]. Shooting, Explosion Reported in Paris

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaurusRex View Post
OldCatholicGuy,
the French may have tarnished the view of devout Catholics upon them, but I’m sure Jesus still loves them and I present the post of Seamus to help answer you because the large Muslim population of France has them at their wit’s end to contain future terrorism against them;
And you want them to allow more possible jihadist Muslim terrorists via refugees into their country.
That just seems nonsensical to me and it also seems nonsensical to me for any European country now committed to make war with Muslim jihadist terrorists to welcome refugees.

You call yourself “old”, well I’m also old enough to remember when cartoons and comedy movies were made about North African and Mid Eastern quick change artists doing their sneaky demonism and then hiding even in the guise of women
And then immediately doing a repeat performance of their evil when the coast was clear.

Muslim jihadist terrorists seem to be incorrigible people that need to be stopped
Before we’re unable to stop them.

rex

First, you didn’t actually answer my question. Are the refugees all guilty of being terrorists because ISIS used the refugee crisis to infiltrate agents into Europe?

Second, you’re citing cartoons and movies as legitimate sources of information?

First:
That’s my punishment for not putting question marks at the end of my comments like so:
And you want them to allow more possible jihadist Muslim terrorists via refugees into their country?
Of course not all the refugees are guilty of being terrorists
So could they accept only children below age 10, their mothers and maybe pregnant women turning all others away because all other refugees may be
“guilty of being terrorists because ISIS used the refugee crisis to infiltrate agents into Europe?”

Might it not be much more easy for the French to contain their problem with terrorists if they don’t increase the burden of their inspectors at this time?

Second:
Aren’t cartoons and movies just animations and enactments of written words of communication as there are in our Christian Bible and which written words in our Christian Bible are animated and enacted all the time?
Am I not watching an enactment of our Christian Bible entitled:
*“In the Beginning…” this very evening?

Oops
:nope:
Am I answering another of your comments with a question mark on the end?
Oops
Do I doubt it?
:sad_yes:

rex