Shorts at Mass??

[curlycool89]

But i can advice to modesty and dignity. Would you want me to encourage to carelessness, lying and inmodest behaviour at mass instead?
No way, i cannot do that.

I don’t think you’re listening because you keep saying the same thing over and over. Now you’re not just saying that short sleeves are bad, you’re comparing it to immodest behaviour at Mass. Yes, that was a direct comparison you made.

Ok, can you give a (preferably concise) reason why bare forearms are now a bad thing? This seems to be going way off the deep end in terms of modesty.

 

[pnewton]

Ok, can you give a (preferably concise) reason why bare forearms are now a bad thing? This seems to be going way off the deep end in terms of modesty.

That is the one I will never understand.

 

[kimmielittle]

I don’t think you’re listening because you keep saying the same thing over and over. Now you’re not just saying that short sleeves are bad, you’re comparing it to immodest behaviour at Mass. Yes, that was a direct comparison you made.

Ok, can you give a (preferably concise) reason why bare forearms are now a bad thing? This seems to be going way off the deep end in terms of modesty.

 

[MtnDwellar]

I encourage you to watch this sermon and understand why and how important it is to dress properly at mass.

Father Dominic means well and he makes statements about modesty and humility that are completely right.

Father mixes his opinions with the absolute truths. For instance, Father states, “We make very strong statements by the way we dress.” In some specific cases Father is correct. In a general sense he is wrong. I make strong statements by my actions or by actually stating something. My clothes are very quiet.

 

[curlycool89]

Father Dominic means well and he makes statements about modesty and humility that are completely right.

Father mixes his opinions with the absolute truths. For instance, Father states, “We make very strong statements by the way we dress.” In some specific cases Father is correct. In a general sense he is wrong. I make strong statements by my actions or by actually stating something. My clothes are very quiet.

There are some way to make a statement with dress, but again they fall at the extremes of the spectrum (stripperific outfits at one extreme and a burqa at the other). You could of course also make a statement if you turn your clothes into a de facto billboard (logos or messages, but then again your actions and words probably mimic whatever that message happens to be. In that case so you could really say it falls within the realm of action and not passive clothing.).

For the vast majority of cases though, if a person talking to you puts more weight on what you’re wearing that what you say or do, then that’s just being plain shallow and in some cases goes right over to uncharitable.

 

[Rome_Always]

I have only ever once worn shorts to Mass and I was embarrased by it. I had spent the day at the beach with my sister and we did not know when we would be returning. I had tucked my shirt in, my shorts were to my knee, probably about an inch past them, and yes, I was wearing sandals but they wrapped all around my feet. For most of my life, we have worn skirts/dresses with tights/pantyhose and appropriate church shoes. I think it also has to do with the intent of the person. I used to be so judgmental but now all I can say is that at least they are showing up to Mass to worship God.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think many praiseworthy habits fall into the same category as the question of wearing the appropriate clothes to church, and not just in the sense that the Church rightly avoids defining exactly what “appropriate” in a way that applies to every Mass in the Universal Church. There is a reason that there is not an exact dress code for the laity in the rubrics.

It is one thing to say we are healthier if we eat such and so a way, or will be fitter if we exercise regularly, or will be better off if we tithe, or that people have a positive emotional reaction when they feel clothing in church shows respect, or that children ought to know to behave in some particular way, or a thousand other things. It is another to forget “to keep the main thing the main thing”, as Steven Covey put it.

Appropriate dress in church is a praiseworthy thing. There are many praiseworthy things we ought to do to the extent we are able. Yet even we praise these things or strive for these things, we have to resist the temptation to
a) forget why they are praiseworthy
b) make the habits more important than they are, so that they become a barrier to more important things
c) use adherence or non-adherence to these habits to mentally raise or lower the human dignity of others
d) think that the excellence of the habit give us an excuse to control other people, because “they’d be so much better off”
e) get into quarrels or strife over whether or not a habit* is *praiseworthy

…and so on…I think you could all add several more points.

I think the evil wants to give us every habit that will tempt us to sin and tempt us away from habits that leave us prone to virtue, but I especially think the devil likes to take every opportunity for spiritual advancement and make it into an occasion to increase pride and decrease charity towards others.

Satan tries to get us, coming and going. That much we know.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I encourage you to watch this sermon and understand why and how important it is to dress properly at mass.

Thank you for being concerned about my well being…but I do think that a short sleeve blouse is dressing properly at Mass…and anything longer then that is probably going to leave me in a sweating drippy mess…as even the short sleeves has me rather warm. I have no hint from God that its unacceptable…and believe me in other things He has not been subtle with me!

For everyone else…as I sat and watched a teenage with short/shorts up in the front row…it occured to me that everyone is on a different walk…if we were all perfect then we would have no need of Mass. The best thing we can do is pray for these people and make sure that we are continuly praying/seeking God’s will in what we are doing…whether its in how we are dressing…or how we are coming across to other people…I pray that other people will always see Christ in our actions.

 

[Padraig1972]

Curlycool89 and Annabelle Marie:

It was out of best intensions only. Not to offend you or getting at your case.
Peace and all well.

 

[Padraig1972]

But having that said, i support Fr Dominic Mary`s sermon 100 %.

 

[curlycool89]

Curlycool89 and Annabelle Marie:

It was out of best intensions only. Not to offend you or getting at your case.
Peace and all well.

If it is out of the best intentions, then please explain it to us (and again, preferably concisely. I don’t have time to listen to a podcast).

 

[TrueLight]

If it is out of the best intentions, then please explain it to us (and again, preferably concisely. I don’t have time to listen to a podcast).

I saw a woman come into and EF mass with a a sports top with open back and jogging shorts - very short shorts. At some point, she got up and went outside for a bit so everyone got to look at her in all her glory. She came back in and sat down and looked around during the whole mass. She received communion and went straight from the communion line right outside.

During the same mass, a man’s phone rang. Although he was seated three pews away from the vestibule, he picked up the phone and started talking before he even got up to walk out. I was in shock.T

This is not the normally EF I attend, but I would say modernism definitely sneaked into that EF.

 

[curlycool89]

I saw a woman come into and EF mass with a a sports top with open back and jogging shorts - very short shorts. At some point, she got up and went outside for a bit so everyone got to look at her in all her glory. She came back in and sat down and looked around during the whole mass. She received communion and went straight from the communion line right outside.

During the same mass, a man’s phone rang. Although he was seated three pews away from the vestibule, he picked up the phone and started talking before he even got up to walk out. I was in shock.T

This is not the normally EF I attend, but I would say modernism definitely sneaked into that EF.

Ok, be gentle here.

What does this have to do with my post? What does this even have to do with this thread?

 

[fm1982]

Without reading 25 or so pages of many posts judging those who may wear shorts to Mass, I’ll throw my 2 cents in.

I live in a Parish with at least 3000 elementary aged students (based on Catholic school enrollment). There is no way that there are that many families and children that attend Mass on a regular basis.

If the “regulars” are judging, looking down on, etc. those who may only come once in a while and make them feel uncomfortable, how often do you think they will come?

I would rather see people come more frequently in shorts (appropriate of course) than not come at all. Whether they fully understand everything or not, I am reminded of an excellent, probably one of the best, homilies I ever heard.

In it, the priest talked about this plant, it appears to be doing nothing for 5 years, no growth or anything. In that 5th season, it grows incredibly rapidly, many feet per day. That plant was not sitting there doing “nothing”, but rather growing roots to support the massive growth. Those people sitting in the pews who may not understand everything may be growing roots. Over time, maybe many, many years, their growth will take off. Or maybe, they are learning and growing bit by bit, slowly. Isn’t that what we hope for, rather than caring what other people are wearing to Mass? With this attitude, it’s no wonder many people just don’t bother showing up to be in the company of those who will judge them so harshly on a trivial issue.

This was the type of thing when I was younger drove me nuts. People who would go to Mass and care about what others were wearing. If you are doing that, you might as well stay home, because you’re just being a hypocrite and not focused on what you need to focus on at Mass. Such a trivial issue should not cause such great concern to so many supposed “Christians”.

For the record, I prefer to relate to God as a good friend, someone I can bring any concern to, any worry, any praise, anything to, rather than some out there “King” or a visit to Church as a visit to the White House. That view of “King” in that respect to me seems much too distance and impersonal to have much of an impact on my life. I wouldn’t visit or talk to the President of the United States everyday, but I do talk to God countless times through each day.

 

[Padraig1972]

If it is out of the best intentions, then please explain it to us (and again, preferably concisely. I don’t have time to listen to a podcast).

No. I do not need to explain my views any further.

 

[johnridgway]

I fully agree, those that judge others should go and learn there bible. maybe they will come across this scripture and learn something.

Luke 6:42

“How can you think of saying, ‘Friend, let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.”

Without reading 25 or so pages of many posts judging those who may wear shorts to Mass, I’ll throw my 2 cents in.

I live in a Parish with at least 3000 elementary aged students (based on Catholic school enrollment). There is no way that there are that many families and children that attend Mass on a regular basis.

If the “regulars” are judging, looking down on, etc. those who may only come once in a while and make them feel uncomfortable, how often do you think they will come?

I would rather see people come more frequently in shorts (appropriate of course) than not come at all. Whether they fully understand everything or not, I am reminded of an excellent, probably one of the best, homilies I ever heard.

In it, the priest talked about this plant, it appears to be doing nothing for 5 years, no growth or anything. In that 5th season, it grows incredibly rapidly, many feet per day. That plant was not sitting there doing “nothing”, but rather growing roots to support the massive growth. Those people sitting in the pews who may not understand everything may be growing roots. Over time, maybe many, many years, their growth will take off. Or maybe, they are learning and growing bit by bit, slowly. Isn’t that what we hope for, rather than caring what other people are wearing to Mass? With this attitude, it’s no wonder many people just don’t bother showing up to be in the company of those who will judge them so harshly on a trivial issue.

This was the type of thing when I was younger drove me nuts. People who would go to Mass and care about what others were wearing. If you are doing that, you might as well stay home, because you’re just being a hypocrite and not focused on what you need to focus on at Mass. Such a trivial issue should not cause such great concern to so many supposed “Christians”.

For the record, I prefer to relate to God as a good friend, someone I can bring any concern to, any worry, any praise, anything to, rather than some out there “King” or a visit to Church as a visit to the White House. That view of “King” in that respect to me seems much too distance and impersonal to have much of an impact on my life. I wouldn’t visit or talk to the President of the United States everyday, but I do talk to God countless times through each day.

 

[TrueLight]

There are some way to make a statement with dress, but again they fall at the extremes of the spectrum (stripperific outfits at one extreme and a burqa at the other). You could of course also make a statement if you turn your clothes into a de facto billboard (logos or messages, but then again your actions and words probably mimic whatever that message happens to be. In that case so you could really say it falls within the realm of action and not passive clothing.).

For the vast majority of cases though, if a person talking to you puts more weight on what you’re wearing that what you say or do, then that’s just being plain shallow and in some cases goes right over to uncharitable.

I’m not responding to your post. If I were, I would have quoted you.

What does it have to do with the thread on shorts? Wasn’t my first example about a woman in shorts? Did you read the whole thread? The thread was originally about shorts but then it also became about modesty as well general disrespect to in mass, which is sometimes linked to the way people are dressed.

I thought about this thread yesterday when I saw the above things at mass, so I wanted to relate them.

Does that make it clearer?

 

[Padraig1972]

I’m not responding to your post. If I were, I would have quoted you.

What does it have to do with the thread on shorts? Wasn’t my first example about a woman in shorts? Did you read the whole thread? The thread was originally about shorts but then it also became about modesty as well general disrespect to in mass, which is sometimes linked to the way people are dressed.

I thought about this thread yesterday when I saw the above things at mass, so I wanted to relate them.

Does that make it clearer?

How we dress and how we behave at mass does have a link. The interesting thing which i have seen at the new versus the old mass (also in the hot summerdays, this as well as last year) is that in the new mass you got everything from bare shoulders to shorts, slippers and dresses more or less exposing a lot of skin.

But in the old mass, people were dressed modestly even at hot days with like 20-25+ celcius. Now what does that tell?

Too me this tells a whole lot. Posters here can accuse me of this and that, but i rather sweat rivers and dress modest than being disobedient and breaking every single etiquette you got in the churchroom and how to behave during mass.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I know for me…if I’m sweating buckets…then I find it VERY difficult to concentrate on Mass. But then again…I’m not wearing shorts…but a short sleeve blouse or T-shirt (plain…no writing).

But then again…I can’t believe people would lump me in with my slacks and short sleeves in with someone in some short/shorts with bare shoulders… But then again…if they are going to do that…so be it…

I’m going to wear what I think is modest…but yet cool enough to keep my concentration on the Mass and not on the little puddle I’m becoming. For everyone else around me that I think has something too short…or too sloppy…well I’m just going to pray for them in charity.

oh…by the way…I never got the etiquette “memo” regarding short sleeves being inappropriate at CCD…

 

[curlycool89]

No. I do not need to explain my views any further.

Out of embarrassment? Because you can’t really justify it?

Look, I have no problem if you don’t like being sleeveless out of personal piety (or whatever it happens to be). Just don’t tell the rest of us that we have to follow just because.

I’m not responding to your post. If I were, I would have quoted you.

What does it have to do with the thread on shorts? Wasn’t my first example about a woman in shorts? Did you read the whole thread? The thread was originally about shorts but then it also became about modesty as well general disrespect to in mass, which is sometimes linked to the way people are dressed.

I thought about this thread yesterday when I saw the above things at mass, so I wanted to relate them.

Does that make it clearer?

Uhhh, you did quote me. Here’s your post. Notice how you quoted me.

Ok, it’s about shorts. But you brought up an example of a women “with a a sports top with open back and jogging shorts - very short shorts”. Essentially, what you’d see someone wear at the gym. That would be one of the extremes I was pointing out. There are some clothes which are activity specific (like swimwear or gym clothes) that are inappropriate for Mass. We’re not talking about them. We’re talking about someone who wears knee-length, presentable shorts and a t-shirt (or long sleeve).

How we dress and how we behave at mass does have a link.

You know, I’ve seen several people say this, and yet I’ve seen nothing to back it up. You can have an opinion, but your opinions are not facts.

And I’ve seen it again and again here at CAF (just take a look at any of the HP threads for example) where people elevate their opinions to Divine Law practically. Guess what? They’re not. Get over it.