Should a Priest Deny Communion to someone who looks like a Trans-Gendered Individual?

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I know there is a similar thread about denying communion to someone who is pro-choice and I considered asking the question there, but I think it deserves its own thread.

A friend and I had a friendly discussion about this and I thought it might be interesting to see where people stand.

So imagine someone who is obviously male, but dressed as a woman, approaches the communion rail.

We do not know whether he is a a cross dresser only, a transvestite or a hermaphrodite. We just know he is a man dressed like a woman.

My friend said she didn’t see how a traditional priest would give him communion. I said, I couldn’t see any priest making a fuss/scene.

What do you think should happen?
So the apparent thinking behind this is to deny Communion to someone who “looks” like a sinner, yes? So why stop with cross-dressing? Statistically, the majority of teen-age boys masturbate, so let’s be safe and deny Communion to all teen-age boys. Men with large, red bulbous noses? Probably alcohol abusers, clearly sinful; no Communion for them. And given your Deuteronomy citation, clearly women in slacks shouldn’t get Communion either, right? “Abomination” I think it was. Young couples with only one or two children? Clearly practicing contraception by the look of it, can’t give them Communion either.

What rubbish. What an offensive poll.
 
My question is why would we simply ask a transgendered or homosexual to be celibate, instead of educating them that it is an abomination and needs to turn from like we would any other type of sin. To say it is okay just don’t act, is saying being that way is okay.
The repentant LGBT person who lives a celibate life knows that their temptation is an abomination.
 
My “I don’t know” on this was only due to my lack of a more accurate choice.

Another option I considered was:

He should absolutely deny communion.

I would agree with this “temporarily” - just as “I don’t know” is a temporary answer until you DO know something more.

You can’t DO an “I don’t know” if you are confronted with the situation, can you?

You MIGHT be wrong in either of the two options you DO decided to do as an EM or priest.

If you deny an eligible person - who just looked wrong - you’ve made a mistake.

If you give a person the Eucharist when it appears you might be participating in another person’s sin of sacrilege - perhaps this is an even GREATER mistake.

What to do.

Perhaps this: Quietly refuse the Eucharist – and ask to see the person after the service*

(*Thinking of myself here - I’m a Communion Service Leader Sundays at a County Children’s Home. When a children present themselves for communion and don’t say the required “Amen” I pause … if they remain confused I repeat “Body of Christ”.

If I get a nod of the head or a yes instead of an Amen (this has happened - I have given the communion). If they do not say the Amen and remain confused I ask them if they’d like a blessing (not a priestly blessing - but a brief prayer of encouragement, sometimes referencing the time when this person may receive communion).

Once a child came to me afterwards and wondered why he’d been “refused”. In THAT case he quickly established that he HAD received his first communion, and remembered to say Amen. I had reserved a couple of Eucharist (at the request of the Juvenile Hall Chaplain that oversees our ministry) for return in case that former group ran short. I told the child to prepare himself for a moment, then gave him the Eucharist instructing him to go into prayer as if he were still “in church”. He remembered his “Amen” the next week and received quite a bit more reverently. 🙂

THIS child wasn’t an obvious sinner as in the above example.

If I refused communion to the above person - reserving a Eucharist for him/her might allow the “I don’t know” of my answer to be resolved in the best possible way, shortly.

A person undergoing this proceedure would be in sin (and a bit publicly too) and would do well to get the counsel as to why they were being refused (mortal sin and danger of sacrilege on top of it).

A person who HAD been undergoing the proceedure - but claimed to have repented of the sin via confession - I would have to encourage. I might possibly ask them to wait until next time - and seriously consider whether they were really eligible. Then I suppose, the next week, if they presented themselves in a devout manner - I might give it to them, barring some interior signal to me from God. It’s the honor system after all.

Some people who look SO holy might be committing a sacrilege too. But it is not bad for a person with an office to discern how best to do it. Particularly when the office is a spiritual one and the consequences of a mistake could be eternal or VERY long lasting.

A good spirit for refusing the Eucharist to someone would be: respect for the Eucharist and concern for the person about to receive. A bad spirit would be just exercising power
for its own sake, picking a fight with someone at a public moment, or getting angry in front of everyone and disturbing the worship that is supposed to be going on.

“Looks trans-gendered” people in one way are in the same boat as the rest of us if we draw a suspicion of ineligibility to ourselves.

If a priest saw someone sneak a bite of a candy bar during mass - and knew the person had not fasted long enough due to the law of the Church - he should probably refuse communion to that person (until that hour is up). Even if he later found that the person was diabetic and felt faint (say).

(Due to length - I will post a second part of this reply, with ACTUAL cases on this issue) 🙂
 
ACTUAL CASES (relevant to aspects of this question):

A young non-Catholic kid who liked coming to our service (we are open to anyone of course) was curious about the Eucharist. As a Communion Service Leader (when I preside) we have a disclaimer/instruction we have to give just before communion that explains who is eligible to come to communion.

The next week I played music, while another CSL presided. The kid stood up and (due to his position in the room) was first in the communion line. Previously he had gotten in line and asked for a blessing.

Very quickly the CSL proferred the Eucharist and the kid who (whether out of curiosity and knowing he shouldn’t receive Communion - or because he didn’t know what else to to when someone extended the Eucharist to him) took it into his mouth.

The kid immediately left the room while I was playing the communion music. Headed for the bathroom.

I think he spit it out.

To my horror, I thought – oh no. If he spit it into a garbage can (or worse) and I could still retrieve it - my duty would be to consume that Eucharist.

Perhaps I could wash it off? I didn’t find it. Perhaps to my human relief.

But these things happen. The kid may or may not have sinned. He might have thought
he wasn’t supposed to receive it and thought spitting it out was what he was supposed to do!

Questions like the above often tend toward a demotion of the Eucharist and the enthronement of politics or the political gospel of niceness. The word DENY is fraught
with an emotional judgement in some cases. As in “What kind of a priest would DENY Jesus to someone JUST because they looked a little different!” - Which may not be the case at ALL.

Our new Orange County Bishop Kevin Vann was asked a similar question regarding public figures who touted the sin of abortion as a positive yet presented themselves for communion. He replied he’s have grave reservations about giving such a person communion.

catholiccitizens.org/platform/platformview.asp?c=14113 - a pro-abortion Senator then taking communion at a Chicago Catholic Church had a home in Vann’s parish. His comment could have been a warning, heading off an incident. But was nonetheless a public statement.

This theoretical case (or has something like the above happened?) seems similar.
In Father Vann’s case he was criticized harshly, but rather quickly earned a promotion to Bishop.

In another case, a Washington DC priest

– “denied” a publilcly lesbian woman who appeared with her lover at her mothers’ funeral

– (who had even “announced herself as such” prior to the ceremony) yet then presented herself for communion

due to his conscience.

In THAT case the priest’s Bishop (reportedly) apologized to the woman (who was going to sue the Diocese) and disciplined the priest. :(*** IF* the below source has it right.
**
washingtonblade.com/2012/03/11/priest-who-refused-communion-to-lesbian-removed-from-church/ - story about Father Marcel Guarnizo’s suspension by his DC Bishop is posted by this “gay” site.
 
Just FYI: The official Vatican teaching allows for sex-change procedures (and one presumes wearing the clothing as well) if it is the best option for the person to lead a stable life.

In any case - how many other issues come up? What if my Indian friend came in wearing a Lungi - a garment that appears to most westerners as a skirt, but is traditional attire for men? Would he be denied communion?
 
Transgendered means someone who has actually had surgery to “correct” what is perceived to be a mistake - the person is “a woman trapped in a man’s body” or vice versa. A transvestite is a person who is cross-dressing, perhaps in exploration to see whether he/she wants to change genders through surgery.

Note: I am not saying that I approve of any of this, only that the confusion in terms might cause others to misunderstand the scenario here.

It’s not always easy to spot the female-to-male side. Usually women can spot the male-to-female change, it’s almost a visceral reaction (“That is NOT a female!”). But not always.

How could a priest make that assessment in less than 10 seconds? I just don’t see it.

As someone else brought up, what if that person is struggling with sin and has repented and is chaste?

:confused:
 
IMHO my whole take on this is errantly disclosed in the title of this thread.
Why should a priest or anyone else judge another person by faculty of outer appearances?
Should a bum on the street in a line up in the Church aisle be refused Holy Communion because his clothes are dirty and smelly and his hair disheveled? If the priest believes their in a state of mortal sin he has the right to refuse them the Blessed Lord.

A Catholic Church most certainly is not a place to distinguish people by outer appearances.
 
So the apparent thinking behind this is to deny Communion to someone who “looks” like a sinner, yes? So why stop with cross-dressing? Statistically, the majority of teen-age boys masturbate, so let’s be safe and deny Communion to all teen-age boys. Men with large, red bulbous noses? Probably alcohol abusers, clearly sinful; no Communion for them. And given your Deuteronomy citation, clearly women in slacks shouldn’t get Communion either, right? “Abomination” I think it was. Young couples with only one or two children? Clearly practicing contraception by the look of it, can’t give them Communion either.

What rubbish. What an offensive poll.
Well, I’m sorry if I offended you. It’s a sincere question based on a real life conversation.

I guess what it boils down is this: Does the Church teach that it is okay for a man to dress like a woman?

Now being that I’m just a new convert, some of the teachings between Protestantism and Catholicism that are not covered in RCIA can become blurred. Please have some patience with me.
Just FYI: The official Vatican teaching allows for sex-change procedures (and one presumes wearing the clothing as well) if it is the best option for the person to lead a stable life.
?
Can you point me to that document? Thanks.
 
Yes it is our priests and other elders that are in their roles for a reason, to make th etough position. If a priest is afraid to step on toes or make an unpopular decision then he should reconsider his vocation.
The priest had better be darn sure that the person is in a state of mortal sin or is excommunicated before refusing Communion to anyone. And the Communion line is not the place to determine that.
 
The priest had better be darn sure that the person is in a state of mortal sin or is excommunicated before refusing Communion to anyone. And the Communion line is not the place to determine that.
This. Especially if all he is judging on is looks. Looks can be decieving. I’m going to be quite honest, I am shocked that so many people have said that he should refuse communion to someone because of an assumption that he makes based on their appearance. 😦
 
This. Especially if all he is judging on is looks. Looks can be decieving. I’m going to be quite honest, I am shocked that so many people have said that he should refuse communion to someone because of an assumption that he makes based on their appearance. 😦
I’m even more shocked that most people care about stepping on toes then standing on the Word of God. IMHO Most People want to follow Christ’s teachings only when it doesn’t cramp their style or go against what they think the teachings should be. Being a Christian is not easy…if it was everyone would be one.
 
The priest had better be darn sure that the person is in a state of mortal sin or is excommunicated before refusing Communion to anyone. And the Communion line is not the place to determine that.
And evidently it doesn’t matter if he is darn sure, an open lesbian with partner shows up and the priest does the right thing and denies the Eucharist and he is disciplined for upholding the teachings of the Church.

There is more to being a Christian than warming a pew and participating in the Sacraments as if it is just a motion you go through or because you feel deserving even when
you are not
 
The same rule should apply to the transgendered as anyone else. You must be free from mortal sin to receive.

No doubt if truly transgendered, the person involved has greater problems than most of us. It’s a huge cross to bear.

If (s)he is chaste and not in a state of mortal sin, on what grounds could communion be refused? The only one I can think of is mutilation (if surgery was involved) but even though that would be grave matter, the issue of full knowledge or full consent needs to be considered. Particularly full consent of the will, if a serious mental issue (or even genetic, i.e. intersex) is involved.

Surely this is an opportunity to show great sensitivity and pastoral care, not condemnation over a condition that it still poorly understood.
 
And evidently it doesn’t matter if he is darn sure, an open lesbian with partner shows up and the priest does the right thing and denies the Eucharist and he is disciplined for upholding the teachings of the Church.

There is more to being a Christian than warming a pew and participating in the Sacraments as if it is just a motion you go through or because you feel deserving even when
you are not
How is he supposed to know? He can’t----unless that person was a public figure or personally known to him and he knew they were excommunicated. That’s why he shouldn’t deny Communion based on an assumption made from their appearance.
 
The same rule should apply to the transgendered as anyone else. You must be free from mortal sin to receive.

No doubt if truly transgendered, the person involved has greater problems than most of us. It’s a huge cross to bear.

If (s)he is chaste and not in a state of mortal sin, on what grounds could communion be refused? The only one I can think of is mutilation (if surgery was involved) but even though that would be grave matter, the issue of full knowledge or full consent needs to be considered. Particularly full consent of the will, if a serious mental issue (or even genetic, i.e. intersex) is involved.

Surely this is an opportunity to show great sensitivity and pastoral care, not condemnation over a condition that it still poorly understood.
Even if they did it intentionally, that doesn’t mean they cannot repent from it.
 
Even if they did it intentionally, that doesn’t mean they cannot repent from it.
Exactly, and the priest either knows that (because he’s the person’s confessor), or doesn’t know that because he doesn’t know the person, and in charity has to assume that the person does not have unconfessed mortal sin.
 
And evidently it doesn’t matter if he is darn sure, an open lesbian with partner shows up and the priest does the right thing and denies the Eucharist and he is disciplined for upholding the teachings of the Church.

There is more to being a Christian than warming a pew and participating in the Sacraments as if it is just a motion you go through or because you feel deserving even when
you are not
Ah, the righteous, on-fire condemnatory zeal of the convert/revert…
 
And evidently it doesn’t matter if he is darn sure, an open lesbian with partner shows up and the priest does the right thing and denies the Eucharist and he is disciplined for upholding the teachings of the Church.

There is more to being a Christian than warming a pew and participating in the Sacraments as if it is just a motion you go through or because you feel deserving even when
you are not
If you’ll take a moment to actually read the poll question, it has nothing to do with “an open lesbian with partner.” It’s about someone who looks like they might be a transgendered individual.

There’s more to being a Christian than making judgments based totally on how someone looks.
Oh, wait – that’s not even part of being a Christian at all.
 
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