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GloriaPatri4
Guest
Bad example and scandal are sins against the soul included in the Fifth Commandment.
Should active homosexuals be permitted to flaunt their lifestyle at a CatholicSchool?
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fromtheheart
Guest
I have to go to the Minneapolis a couple times a year on business and St. Edward’s in Bloomington is where we attend. This March we decided (with the help of our “Orthodox” Priest) that we could not go there again. We don’t even believe the Communion was valid.
In the Info rack in St Ed’s it is evident that there is support groups there for adult homosexual relationships and families but now also for homosexual teens. They are not support groups to show you the true path to follow but to empower you in your “alternate lifestyle”. WHAT A MESS!
Our Msgr. orders the SPIRIT newspaper for our parish in SF and it has become so liveral in the last few years you have to be really educated in the faith to know what is true and what is false.
I recently remembered a cartoon on life issues that focused on the wrongness (is that a word?) of the death penalty and the war but left out abortion - an atrocity considering the caption definitely should have included abortion in the cartoon.
So sad for the faithful in the Twin Cities.
fromtheheart*
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
Do you personally know any of the parishioners at St. Ed’s? If so you should consider persuading them to complain (write letters) to their bishop.
Why don’t you believe the Mass was valid?
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
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Psalm45_9
Guest
Excuse me, it is a Catholic School, we promote the Catholic lifestyle.
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
**The Scandal and Bad Example continues at the School. Please read the quotes from the book “My Catholic Faith” on Scandal and Bad Example. **
**The two men (caregivers) continue to attend the all school morning prayer together (everyday)as a couple so the entire student body can stand witness to their disordered lifestyle. They still are wearing their wedding rings. One of the caregivers (Dad’s) comes and visits his children during the school lunch hour (he may be volunteering for lunch duty, we are not sure), this is the same caregiver that was volunteering unsupervised with the kindergarten children. The kindergarten children already know him and like him as they do the other caregiver (Dad) so he is always welcome. The two men (caregivers) are a common site on the school grounds and at school social functions. As we have stated in the other threads the men have been accepted and welcomed just the way they are, if anyone has tried to correct them in their sin, you know admonish the sinner I am unaware of it. **
**I would estimate that eighty to ninety percent of the adults at the school (teachers and parents) are supporting these men. ** I would even go so far as to say the people rally around the men. Most of these people do not have a problem with these two men being so visible and active on the school campus, church and social functions. People who are on different sides of the fence whom were once friends are now enemies, this situation has definitely caused division at the school and parish. Since we have had no support from the bishop on this issue, in fact he seems to support these situations (please read Jim Orr’s thread) I believe more situations like these will be popping up at our diocesan schools. Who knows maybe St. John’s was the designated testing ground to see how easy it would be to infiltrate other diocesan schools. It is very sad to see this happening at the school and church we love so much.
We have not received a response from the Vatican yet, except from one of the congregations saying that this situation did not fall under their jurisdiction. I suspect it will be quite some time before we do hear word now because of the recent loss of our beloved Holy Father.
**Please pray for the Diocese of Orange.
**
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demolitionman65
Guest
Have the men been personally confronted?
And by that, I mean lovingly corrected in the following order:
And by that, I mean lovingly corrected in the following order:
- Confront a neighbor in error individually.
- Confront in the company of another if (1) fails
- Confront with the whole community if (2) fails (I understand this may not work, given the misguided notions of charity that your parish seems to work under).
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
To my knowledge they have not been corrected. It is my guess that if they had been corrected in their sin they were not asked to not appear together as a couple or to not wear their wedding rings or if they have they’ve ignored the request.
I would not feel comfortable confronting the men as they always have many people mostly women (parents) flocking around them and since many of the people don’t have a problem with two homosexual men living a active openly gay lifestyle I am sure that I would be attacked verbally. The problem is most of the people at the school including the faculty (especially the principal) view these men as heros for adopting four children. They are referred to as very respectable men and good Catholics. Anyone who opposes the situation are hateful people.
As far as the poor shepherding I believe this situation is completely out of our pastor’s hands at this point as this is coming from the higher ups in the diocese. Our pastor is of a traditional religious order but he is in a diocesan church which is headed by the bishop so he has to do what the diocese says. If you read up on some of the threads about our bishop you will see why this situation is allowed.
I struggle with the decision of whether or not to leave my parish. I have been advised by a few priests now just as some of the other parents who oppose the situation have to pull our kids out of the school. No matter what school or church we transfer to the same thing could happen because we are still in the diocese.
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
There is a Catholic same sex high school in our diocese that has an openly gay teacher teaching theology in fact she’s head of the theology department. I have friends whose teenagers attend the school and they have told me that the this teacher frequently talks about her life companion (domestic partner) to the students. This stuff is just tolerated.
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demolitionman65
Guest
Wow. I guess the next step would be to start pestering the Papal Legate (I doubt you’d get any relief from Cardinal Mahony) repeatedly, until action was taken.
The only other recourse might be to leave Orange, but that could entail serious upheaval, I am sure.
If that teacher tried that at this school I teach at (assuming she were an active homosexual), she would be gone in 2 days.
The only other recourse might be to leave Orange, but that could entail serious upheaval, I am sure.
If that teacher tried that at this school I teach at (assuming she were an active homosexual), she would be gone in 2 days.
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
I would like to see the children stay too. I agree with you the children shouldn’t be punished for the sins of their fathers but there are so many scenarios that people have not thought of that could and probably will happen at some point in time at the school.
**What should be done in the event this particular family (the homosexual men) have a Birthday Party or a sleepover at their house? Even if these men were to have a conversion (which we are praying for) and live chaste lives they would probably still be living together. Any child or parent attending their party would be witness to their previous lifestyle when the adopted children of these two men address them both as “Papa”. I believe if they hosted a party now parents would bring their children thereby condoning their lifestyle. Is it appropriate or legal for the principal or pastor to be the Big Brother and put limits on their social activities outside the school which may include other students and their families from the Catholic school/church? **
I think more thought needs to be given to what lies ahead in the years to come and since their youngest child is about three or four we are talking about twelve to sixteen years if they attend Diocesan high schools. That will open up a whole new can of worms. Some examples of what may lie ahead: Mother and Son dances, would anyone dare tell these two dads that they cannot attend with their adopted children? There are many other social events which would expose hundreds of highschoolers to bad example and scandal not to mention the psychological harm it would do to the adopted children of these two men.
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
Similar thread [thread=49474] click me! [/thread]
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
**
Admitting children of same-sex couples to Catholic elementary schools:
thinking beyond the clichés
By Dr. Edward Peters
Opinion / Analysis
As the moral fabric of Western society continues to unravel, novel problems such as those facing parents, teachers, and Church officials in the Diocese of Orange—namely, how Catholic schools should handle requests to admit children of same-sex couples—will continue to arise. Moreover, as the pace of social disintegration quickens, these new problems will be both more numerous and more complex. Just ten years ago, did parents paying for their children to attend a Catholic kindergarten really have to worry about explaining (assuming it is explainable) to their own youngsters why some of their classmates have two mommies or two daddies?
From the outset, let’s recognize that neither the opposition parents nor school officials wanted this conflict to arise. Who needs another fight these days? But arise it has, and it must be considered carefully. I do not know what the best response to this latest manifestation of social disorientation should be but, knowing of the situation only what the above article tells us, I doubt that the best answer has been hit upon yet by either side in this debate.
The solution proposed by the “anti-admission parents” (basically, that Catholic schools should admit only children from families that live in accord with Church teaching) is, at first glance certainly, too vague to be enforced and too severe if it could be enforced. The Church is full of sinners, and Fr. Gerald Horan is right to fear stepping onto such slippery slopes. But that does not mean that “pro-admission” voices like his and William Donohue’s are correct in their reasoning; indeed, I think some of their rhetoric introduces its own problems and makes slippery slope concessions that might be very difficult to take back in other cases.
Fr. Horan, for example, claims that barring children of homosexual parents from Catholic schools would lead to banning children whose parents are divorced, use birth control, or are married outside the Church. Oh, really?
Civil divorce is a bane built largely on sin, but divorced persons, as such, are not barred from any participation in Catholic life whatsoever. (Are there still Catholics in positions of influence who don’t know this?) Why, then, use the specter of expelling children whose parents are simply divorced as an example of frightful consequences, unless one has a taste for red herring?
Contraception, too, is a very serious matter, but it is addressed by moral and pastoral theology, not by canon law and ecclesiastical governance. Thus parental contraception, though objectively sinful, provides no basis for consequences upon children in the external forum. (I’m assuming that contracepting parents don’t drop their kids off at Catholic school in sports cars blazoned with bumpers stickers proclaiming “Contracepting and Proud!”). Ironically, the acceptance of contraception by large numbers of Catholic laity, to
Rear article in its entirety
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/enpeters/a_samesex.htm
**
Admitting children of same-sex couples to Catholic elementary schools:
thinking beyond the clichés
By Dr. Edward Peters
Opinion / Analysis
As the moral fabric of Western society continues to unravel, novel problems such as those facing parents, teachers, and Church officials in the Diocese of Orange—namely, how Catholic schools should handle requests to admit children of same-sex couples—will continue to arise. Moreover, as the pace of social disintegration quickens, these new problems will be both more numerous and more complex. Just ten years ago, did parents paying for their children to attend a Catholic kindergarten really have to worry about explaining (assuming it is explainable) to their own youngsters why some of their classmates have two mommies or two daddies?
From the outset, let’s recognize that neither the opposition parents nor school officials wanted this conflict to arise. Who needs another fight these days? But arise it has, and it must be considered carefully. I do not know what the best response to this latest manifestation of social disorientation should be but, knowing of the situation only what the above article tells us, I doubt that the best answer has been hit upon yet by either side in this debate.
The solution proposed by the “anti-admission parents” (basically, that Catholic schools should admit only children from families that live in accord with Church teaching) is, at first glance certainly, too vague to be enforced and too severe if it could be enforced. The Church is full of sinners, and Fr. Gerald Horan is right to fear stepping onto such slippery slopes. But that does not mean that “pro-admission” voices like his and William Donohue’s are correct in their reasoning; indeed, I think some of their rhetoric introduces its own problems and makes slippery slope concessions that might be very difficult to take back in other cases.
Fr. Horan, for example, claims that barring children of homosexual parents from Catholic schools would lead to banning children whose parents are divorced, use birth control, or are married outside the Church. Oh, really?
Civil divorce is a bane built largely on sin, but divorced persons, as such, are not barred from any participation in Catholic life whatsoever. (Are there still Catholics in positions of influence who don’t know this?) Why, then, use the specter of expelling children whose parents are simply divorced as an example of frightful consequences, unless one has a taste for red herring?
Contraception, too, is a very serious matter, but it is addressed by moral and pastoral theology, not by canon law and ecclesiastical governance. Thus parental contraception, though objectively sinful, provides no basis for consequences upon children in the external forum. (I’m assuming that contracepting parents don’t drop their kids off at Catholic school in sports cars blazoned with bumpers stickers proclaiming “Contracepting and Proud!”). Ironically, the acceptance of contraception by large numbers of Catholic laity, to
Rear article in its entirety
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/enpeters/a_samesex.htm
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NightRider
Guest
Just think–if all the time spent on this obsession about homosexuality was spent on prayer and the Lord how different things would be…but then–it is so much easier focussing on other peoples’ sins rather than one’s own…God help us.
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
Yes, and the same can be said for people who obsess about how much or how little others are praying and judging others hearts or their intentions. Just think how different things would be if people didn’t try to presume what was in another’s heart. By one pointing out that a person is focused on other peoples’ sins and not one’s own is that not the same thing as what one is accusing the other of?
God bless
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NightRider
Guest
I am not obsessing about whether anyone prays or not, or your heart or your intention. I am simply pointing out that you are obviously obsessed about homosexuality, otherwise why would you continue to create polls that are not really polls, but are actually vehicles to push your agenda, to display your obsession, over and over and over again?? You open yourself up to this commentary when you continually start “polls” and threads about homosexuals. You want to point your finger at the homosexuals at your childrens’ school, but you get angry when someone points a finger right back at you. Talk about double standard. It is quite obvious you are more concerned about homosexual sin and not your own, otherwise you wouldn’t be constantly posting this kind of stuff up here all the time. I actually feel very sorry for you, that you have allowed yourself to become so obsessed with homosexuality, because it will end up making you ill, your obsession will end up making you ill inside, if it hasn’t already.
God bless you, too.
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
We are guilty of sins which we ourselves do not commit when we cooperate with another person’s sins.
**NINE WAYS OF BEING AN ACCESSORY TO ANOTHER’S SIN **
We share in another’s sin:
1. by counsel
2. by command
3. by consent
4. by provocation
5. by praise or flattery
6. by silence
7. by assistance/partaking
8. by defense
9. by concealment
**
**
From "My Catholic Faith"
**Thus rulers, legislative leaders, parents, employers, teachers, superiors, owners of shows and theatres, editors, publishers, and others in a position of responsibility, may easily render themselves guilty of the sins of others. One who is to blame for another’s sin is as guilty as if he had committed the sin himself. **
**NINE WAYS OF BEING AN ACCESSORY TO ANOTHER’S SIN **
We share in another’s sin:
1. by counsel
2. by command
3. by consent
4. by provocation
5. by praise or flattery
6. by silence
7. by assistance/partaking
8. by defense
9. by concealment
**
**
From "My Catholic Faith"
**Thus rulers, legislative leaders, parents, employers, teachers, superiors, owners of shows and theatres, editors, publishers, and others in a position of responsibility, may easily render themselves guilty of the sins of others. One who is to blame for another’s sin is as guilty as if he had committed the sin himself. **
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kaymart
Guest
No one should be allowed to flaunt any type of perverted behavior in our Catholic or Public schools for that matter. What would be said over the heterosexual male teacher who brings his girlfriend to work and kisses her all today or he lets the kiddies know what a great time he had with Miss So and So last night???
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Karen_Anne
Guest
ok - I am the “other” vote. My opinion is that NOBODY should flaunt ANY type of sexual relationship at ANY school - homosexual or not.
Karen Anne
Karen Anne
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Bbrusati
Guest
No way ever.
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