Should an infidel husband sleep on the couch?

[e3342]

We went through this hysterical bonding too!!! It never worked in the long run! I did everything to change myself, to no avail. I was too stupid then to know any better. Did you go through this too?

Also I believed him when he said he wanted me and his family over her. So…we resumed relations. All the while he was lying, still doing it behind my back. It was never over and still isn’t.

Yes, I went through it too. Did all kinds of changes. Although I’m 99% certain he has never gone back, mainly because of his injury and subsequent lack of libido, nothing has changed. I have since done an in-house separation because he still, after 13 months, sees nothing wrong with what he did. I feel I have no choice.And by the way, does anybody know what happened to my posts? I DID complain about one poster who offered advice with sarcasm and thinly-veiled hatred of women. Would that be a reason to pull MY posts? I wrote and asked this question, but never received an answer.

 

[Lycorth]

This…

Here is what the Church teaches, via canon law, regarding conjugal relations with an adulterous spouse:

Can. 1151 Spouses have the duty and right to preserve conjugal living unless a legitimate cause excuses them.

Can. 1152 §1. Although it is earnestly recommended that a spouse, moved by Christian charity and concerned for the good of the family, not refuse forgiveness to an adulterous partner and not disrupt conjugal life, nevertheless, if the spouse did not condone the fault of the other expressly or tacitly, the spouse has the right to sever conjugal living unless the spouse consented to the adultery, gave cause for it, or also committed adultery.

§2. Tacit condonation exists if the innocent spouse has had marital relations voluntarily with the other spouse after having become certain of the adultery. It is presumed, moreover, if the spouse observed conjugal living for six months and did not make recourse to the ecclesiastical or civil authority.

§3. If the innocent spouse has severed conjugal living voluntarily, the spouse is to introduce a cause for separation within six months to the competent ecclesiastical authority which, after having investigated all the circumstances, is to consider carefully whether the innocent spouse can be moved to forgive the fault and not to prolong the separation permanently.

… and this…

And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication and shall marry another, commiteth adultery, and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matthew 19:9

In other words, you’re allowed to separate from a spouse who commits adultery, but it’s not an annulment – it’s just a separation. The marriage still exists, another marriage is not allowed.

Normally husbands and wives must stay together, and conjugal rights are still retained. But adultery allows for them to be suspended.

Having a husband sleep on the couch is certainly permitted and within the bounds because of the offense of adultery. There are other kinds of conflicts where it wouldn’t be within bounds – but this one it is.

… sum up my view perfectly.

Corrine, I’m sorry to hear this is still a problem. I pray still that the Lord will lead you to a solution. But no, making him sleep on the couch isn’t wrong at all, and perfectly within the bounds of Catholic moral teaching. Frankly, not doing anything will only tacitly approve of his infidelity and permit a bad situation to go on.

I pray you have the strength you need to meet this head on

 

[Corinne3]

Thanks. I believe I have the answers I was looking for, speaking of being Catholics, was it wrong for me to ban him from the bed? I unequivocally found my answer is NO, it was and is not wrong. BUT, considering Canon Law, if this goes on for another 6 months then, I need to separate? I would think if nothing changes within 6 months of course, I will have gotten me and my children out of this situation or my husband would have left on his own.

Dear E332:

I was looking for your post about “is separation the answer?” and I could not find it anywhere. I hope it is brought back soon.

So…you and your husband as well, are doing as well an “in-house separation”? Tell me how is this going? Do you have kids at home presently?

One thing I am glad about is that, being that my husband is still here in the home, here is here to help with our children, one is still a minor and in need of his dad. He drives him to summer school, does things with him, etc. And does do some things needed around the home. I feel this is a good thing, at least for now anyway. I am grateful for this. All the times we were separated, it was horrible for my children. They always were asking "where is dad? and when is he coming over next? This broke my heart. So for now, I feel this is the best scenario, and I feel at peace about it. Even though he is on the couch. I also feel, as some relatives have told me, if a husband wants to commit adultery, then they should be the one to leave and divorce you. I still feel if I did land a job out of town, I would leave with my children. Thank you all.

 

[Corinne3]

Dear Lycorth:

Thank you. I really am grateful hearing from you!!!

 

[Miserys_Fence]

If I had a husband who treated me like this, he’d be sleeping with the fishes.

Miz

 

[Corinne3]

Yes, I went through it too. Did all kinds of changes. Although I’m 99% certain he has never gone back, mainly because of his injury and subsequent lack of libido, nothing has changed. I have since done an in-house separation because he still, after 13 months, sees nothing wrong with what he did. I feel I have no choice.And by the way, does anybody know what happened to my posts? I DID complain about one poster who offered advice with sarcasm and thinly-veiled hatred of women. Would that be a reason to pull MY posts? I wrote and asked this question, but never received an answer.

Hello to e3342:

I hope your post comes back. I wanted to write to you.

I think an “in-house separation” is a very good idea actually. IF a husband really cannot stand sleeping without their loving wife, they’ll eventually either leave or change their ways. Hopefully. My husband is 46, in great physical shape, and most handsome, with no health problems. Although he could be thinking, “wow, I get to live here with my wife and kids, get meals cooked for me, all the while carrying on with my stripper.” He probably is thinking this. Well, forget it! Once I have a means to support myself, I will kick him out.
Oh it is just so hard.

How are you getting along today e3342?

You are even older than me, and been married 30 years? I say honestly, after 20 years of marriage, it’s not even worth the bother anymore to even think of having “another life”. That might have worked with some of these youngsters on here, like in their 20’s still, and newly married. At our age, we just need to carry on and trust in God, and not make too many un-necessary changes in our lives. Rather just maintain the status quo. I know I said in my post just now, I cannot imagine my life going forward for another 20 years with an infidel…but who even said I have 20 more years? I may only have 5? or less? 10? It’s sad, but all the time invested in a marriage is not worth tossing out, at our age…over 45, I don’t think. Do you? I wish you peace and love.

Corinne~

 

[Corinne3]

If I had a husband who treated me like this, he’d be sleeping with the fishes.

Miz

HA~~~~

I wonder how old are you? And how old are your children? Can you tell me?

Have been doing much thinking and praying lately.

Thank you for replying to my thread.

 

[no_name_jane]

That is so funny you said this, because just today, when I was waking up, I said, to him on the couch, “how did you sleep”? And I said “you should be sleeping on a bed of nails, your adultery bed”. HA~ NO response mind you. He’s completely un-feeling and completely oblivious to anything.

Maybe he’s running from you and your “perfect” body and your “perfect” faith and your romanticized “need” for the “perfect” family. Maybe he’s gotten so sick of your nasty little remarks that he’s been driven to sin. Maybe he’s so sick of being just another step on your way to martyrdom that he’s stopped giving a d*** about you and your marriage.

Why won’t you even consider that you, in some way do need to change and do need to improve as a person. So you got your figure back and you had some good sex, that doesn’t make you an ideal wife - especially not for a man who has obvious struggles with porn, he needs someone who can view him as a human being, not a failing project. None of your posts give any indication that you see him as a man.

I think you are begging for a divorce.

 

[jmcrae]

Maybe he’s running from you and your “perfect” body and your “perfect” faith and your romanticized “need” for the “perfect” family. Maybe he’s gotten so sick of your nasty little remarks that he’s been driven to sin.

Nobody is “driven to sin.” And Corrine certainly wasn’t working out, keeping a clean, tidy house, and cooking beautiful meals in order to drive him into the arms of a prostitute. He did that all by himself.

 

[no_name_jane]

Nobody is “driven to sin.” And Corrine certainly wasn’t working out, keeping a clean, tidy house, and cooking beautiful meals in order to drive him into the arms of a prostitute. He did that all by himself.

She can do all manner of good things but if she is doing them without love, or doing them in a way that is belittling, or neglectful of his personhood then she is still creating an emotional void. I’m not saying that his sin is completely her fault, obviously it’s his, but she is doing nothing to encourage recovery. Who would want to make it work with a woman who never forgives, never forgets, and makes caustic remarks on a regular basis. A woman who harps on his fall, and make monogamy sound like a living hell.

 

[EasterJoy]

She can do all manner of good things but if she is doing them without love, or doing them in a way that is belittling, or neglectful of his personhood then she is still creating an emotional void. I’m not saying that his sin is completely her fault, obviously it’s his, but she is doing nothing to encourage recovery. Who would want to make it work with a woman who never forgives, never forgets, and makes caustic remarks on a regular basis. A woman who harps on his fall, and make monogamy sound like a living hell.

The man who also promised to love her and honor her needs to do it, whether he wants to or not. If he had a problem with her attitude, he needed to address that and work with her on it directly. And hello…a man who feels his wife is being cold or without love might be understood if he fell into an emotional affair, but nude lap dancers? Nobody gets emotional support and consolation from nude lap dances. They get their personal jollies, and that is it. Morally speaking, it is as much an insult to the dignity of the dancers as it is an insult to the wife. It is morally repugnant, and as much as it is a temptation rooted in human biology, there is no way to justify it.

If he were to make some overtures of reconciliation, if he wanted to repent, that would be great if she were to immediately find it in herself to begin reconciliation.

As it is, he is hardened into an unacceptable position. If she did not make her unwillingness to accept that perfectly clear, it would amount to tacit approval.

 

[jmcrae]

She can do all manner of good things but if she is doing them without love, or doing them in a way that is belittling, or neglectful of his personhood then she is still creating an emotional void.

What on God’s green earth is making you think that Corrine is anything at all like that?

I’m not saying that his sin is completely her fault, obviously it’s his, but she is doing nothing to encourage recovery.

She has been patient with him for four years and giving him the benefit of the doubt - far more so than most people would be, and definitely more than I would be. I also strongly doubt that he is seeking “support for his recovery” from these prostitutes - they are about sex and money, period, and end of story. They don’t get paid to hear his sob stories, and I doubt he is giving them any.

Who would want to make it work with a woman who never forgives, never forgets, and makes caustic remarks on a regular basis.

Where are you getting the idea from that she is doing this?

A woman who harps on his fall, and make monogamy sound like a living hell.

She is not “harping on his fall.” This isn’t something that happened once, a long time ago, and for some reason she just can’t let go - this is something that is happening every day, right now. She has every right to be concerned and upset.

 

[EasterJoy]

Why won’t you even consider that you, in some way do need to change and do need to improve as a person.

Well, don’t we all?

I tell my kids this: the bad behavior of others is no excuse or permission for your own bad behavior. Once you go that route, simple logic will tell you that you are always going to be the worst-behaved person in the room. The failure of others to call you on your bad behavior, or their willingness to cover for you, is also no excuse. You cannot depend on the virtue of others to pay for your own vice. So the wife’s faults are her faults regardless of how her husband responds to them. Likewise, his faults are his faults. He can’t blame her.

No matter how bad a wife is, there is no way that frequenting nude lap dancers is ever going to be a positive response to any fault in* any *wife. It just is not possible. The guy has no excuse. None. Zero. Nada.

Even when he repents, he has to realize that he has totally overdrawn his store of trust with her. She may pitch in to help, but he is not entitled for her to do the heavy lifting in the repair of this marriage.

 

[Lycorth]

Well, don’t we all?

I tell my kids this: the bad behavior of others is no excuse or permission for your own bad behavior. Once you go that route, simple logic will tell you that you are always going to be the worst-behaved person in the room. The failure of others to call you on your bad behavior, or their willingness to cover for you, is also no excuse. You cannot depend on the virtue of others to pay for your own vice. So the wife’s faults are her faults regardless of how her husband responds to them. Likewise, his faults are his faults. He can’t blame her.

No matter how bad a wife is, there is no way that frequenting nude lap dancers is ever going to be a positive response to any fault in* any *wife. It just is not possible. The guy has no excuse. None. Zero. Nada.

Even when he repents, he has to realize that he has totally overdrawn his store of trust with her. She may pitch in to help, but he is not entitled for her to do the heavy lifting in the repair of this marriage.

Amen. No one is driven to sin and everyone is responsible for their actions.

 

[horselvr]

"I have tried my hardest to preserve my marriage and family. I’m sorry you cannot understand my doing this, but this is what I have done for the past couple years now… Call me an idiot. I can take it I guess.
I don’t really feel sorry for doing it cuz I know in my heart, I tried everything, and was a good and faithful and loving wife, more than any man could ask for. I also know it was not my fault him loving strip clubs and commiting adultery.

I hope anyone reading this may be able to relate and pray for me. Thank you so much."

Corinne:

I understand perfectly wanting to preserve the marriage—you are not an idiot for trying and eventhough you were a good wife----it was/is not enough for him. He is the idiot, not you. He just does not want the marriage and as tough as this is to face----you must meet that head on. From everything you have said, he does not want the goodness a marriage has to offer. He is looking for the seedy side of life. You are far above all that.

By the way, I was 49 when I left with our 10yr old son, 2 dogs, a cat and two turtles in a fish bowl. LOL! I was not a young girl with plenty of energy able to start anew. It was very hard but it was certainly doable eventhough I had to work two jobs for us to survive. My son has learned a great deal from this experience. Always a positive from a negative and truly a blessing in disguise because this “marriage” and ultimately the divorce drew me even closer to Christ. I learned to put all my trust in him because I had to and I needed all his strength. He never left me.

I am praying that you also give it to Christ and allow him to guide your footsteps towards your new life.

PS. But if you don’t eventually leave this jerk I’ll be the first to call you an idiot. And get an exam please.

 

[e3342]

Hello to e3342:

I hope your post comes back. I wanted to write to you.

I think an “in-house separation” is a very good idea actually. IF a husband really cannot stand sleeping without their loving wife, they’ll eventually either leave or change their ways. Hopefully. My husband is 46, in great physical shape, and most handsome, with no health problems. Although he could be thinking, “wow, I get to live here with my wife and kids, get meals cooked for me, all the while carrying on with my stripper.” He probably is thinking this. Well, forget it! Once I have a means to support myself, I will kick him out.
Oh it is just so hard.

How are you getting along today e3342?

You are even older than me, and been married 30 years? I say honestly, after 20 years of marriage, it’s not even worth the bother anymore to even think of having “another life”. That might have worked with some of these youngsters on here, like in their 20’s still, and newly married. At our age, we just need to carry on and trust in God, and not make too many un-necessary changes in our lives. Rather just maintain the status quo. I know I said in my post just now, I cannot imagine my life going forward for another 20 years with an infidel…but who even said I have 20 more years? I may only have 5? or less? 10? It’s sad, but all the time invested in a marriage is not worth tossing out, at our age…over 45, I don’t think. Do you? I wish you peace and love.

Corinne~

Well, it was 31 years yesterday. It is very difficult living with such a clueless man. Right now, he is sick with Lymes disease, so I haven’t been bringing up our problems. But if he had his way, we’d just go on as we are. I simply can’t as long as he insists he did nothing wrong. In my state, you don’t need a lawyer to get legally separated. As Catholics, are we allowed to date others while separated?

 

[gretahope]

Well, it was 31 years yesterday. It is very difficult living with such a clueless man. Right now, he is sick with Lymes disease, so I haven’t been bringing up our problems. But if he had his way, we’d just go on as we are. I simply can’t as long as he insists he did nothing wrong. In my state, you don’t need a lawyer to get legally separated. As Catholics, are we allowed to date others while separated?

How long ago did this all happen, and how long has he been clueless / sick w/ Lymes?

 

[jmcrae]

As Catholics, are we allowed to date others while separated?

No. You are considered to be married until you receive an official Declaration of Nullity from the marriage tribunal. Keep in mind that they have no power to make your marriage null - they can only discover whether it is, or not.

You don’t start dating until after they have found that your marriage never existed. They could also find that your marriage is valid (because, the reason for the investigation is that nobody knows whether it is or not), in which case, no dating or any kind of romantic involvement until one of you has died.

 

[Corinne3]

OK people. it is getting really hard being separated from my h even in-house. I miss him sexually and he misses me. What should I do? I am of course devastated that he has retreated to a strip joint 4 weeks ago, still we are married here. And it is getting really painful being without him, in our marriage bed. We talked today, and yes, I told him what I need from him. No comment. I still cannot allow him back in our bedroom, considering the fact he is making NO effort to get help for his problemo. His sex addiction, that is.

Tell me I am doing the right thing here? I feel I am. I just cannot give my heart soul and body to a man who is cheating on me. However, do all think by my withholding, it might make things worse? What do you men think? I am confused. My h told me last night he loves me and does not want a divorce. As I do not either. BUT, I cannot take his activities any more.

Oh gosh I am confused again…

I fear he is playing me like a card…a fool…wanting his cake and eating it too…

I cannot go down this road any longer.

Thoughts?

 

[Corinne3]

IF I read this without knowing the poster, I’d say forget him, the loser, who chases after other women. I’d say get a life and move on.

OK then, maybe I just answered my own question. Thank you ME.

Just venting…