Should broke people receive health care?

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I appreciate the thoughts and well wishes regardless. Lets try to get this back on topic though 🙂 I seem to have a talent for derailment.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to plug the holes that at least in my case exist while keeping the free market alive? The only viable solution I currently have is to move to California or to Canada or the UK. As far as I can tell CA is the only state in the USA I could get health care at easily without a fuss about my past medical issues.

This seems…suboptimal, to say the least.
What’s wrong with Cali? 🤷

I mean other than extreme environmentalism, rolling blackouts, earthquakes, Arnold, San Francisco, huge car tax liscencing taxes, … 😉
 
Did you ask Wal-Mart?

I look around at the people attending my little church – Saint Mary’s of Mountaint View, Arkansas, and I find that difficult to understand. We might not have the resources to give all the help someone needs, but we would never turn anyone away.
Vern is it St Mary’s there that has the TLM? I know there is one in MV and one at Cherokee Village. It’s just too far for me to go. I am in the NW. 🙂 sorry to go off topic just thought I’d ask real quick?
 
Vern is it St Mary’s there that has the TLM? I know there is one in MV and one at Cherokee Village. It’s just too far for me to go. I am in the NW. 🙂 sorry to go off topic just thought I’d ask real quick?
Saint Mary’s of Mountain View is served by Saint Peter’s of Mountain Home, and our pastor is the paster of Saint Peter’s (although we now have a retired priest in residence.)

Mountain Home has the Latin Mass. The priest who says it is quite elderly and doesn’t often travel to Mountain View – I wish he could.
 
$200,000 for a screwdriver? Either they make it in a swimming pool, or they use some pretty extraordinary vodka!

😃
Peace,
Dante
Maybe my father in law made it? He made many parts of extreme special metal composites for them. The designs were so extreme the companies work on time and material contract. Often the government makes a few metal composites, then tools out some parts and rejects the attempt. Do that a few times and you can have similar results.
 
Welcome:)

This happens quite a bit. But I question “why” a confirmed alcoholic was given a new liver, this is usually not typical.
Yes, exactly! It just made me so angry when I heard about this. There were more issues contributing to his situation, of course, such as a wife who was entirely co-dependent and supplied him with alcohol all the way to the end. 😦
 
Hi Steven,

I’m not sure anyone has said it is un-Christian. The question is would it make things better or worse? Personally, I think it would make it worse.

I think we need to break the mold. IOW…it is not an either/or proposition. We should take a look at the positives and negatives of the socialized programs in other countries and the positives and negatives of the private insurance method and come up with the best of both worlds. For example: Maybe we should consider subsidized clinics for preventative and basic care, but keep the catastrophic coverage private (through employers or on our own) with the current safety nets for the poor. 🤷
Now here is some reasonable dialog. Not an automatic shut down to all ideas regarding universal health. There may be some merit here. Something to ponder. Problem is, right now, I don’t think anyone in the U.S. Congress is pondering ANYthing.

Peace to you,

Steven
 
Now you brought us back to where we were earlier. I pointed out that there are many things we can do to make health care both more available and affordable, without costing the taxpayer a dime:
  1. Medical Savings Accounts – you save money pre-tax to pay for health care and have a cheap, high deductable catestrophic coverage policy. You pay on the spot for treatment, and any unspent money rolls over into your IRA at the end of the year.
  2. Allow people to buy health care insurance across state lines – it’s now illegal, in violation of the Constitution.
  3. Allow unaffiliated businesses to band together to bargain for employee health insurance from a position of strength.
  4. Canadian and European price controls on drugs throw the R&D burden on the Ameican consumer. Make that a free-trade issue.
  5. Control meritless lawsuits. Right now, a lawyer can sue and by accepting a settlement less than the price of defending the case, he can expect the insurance companies to pay him to go away.
What we need is not a one-size-fits-nobody system, but a wide range of choices, so each person can tailor his health care to fit his needs.
 
Yes, exactly! It just made me so angry when I heard about this. There were more issues contributing to his situation, of course, such as a wife who was entirely co-dependent and supplied him with alcohol all the way to the end. 😦
Is this known to be true, or is this conjecture?
 
Healthcare should be available to all. We are very blessed to have the National Health Service. Everyone in our country gets healthcare. It is paid for in our taxes and few people grudge paying it bacause nobody knows when a time might come where they need treatment. Some people do, however, pay for private treatment. This means they can be seen quicker and have a tv in their room. That is their choice. they still have to pay the taxes anyway.
THANK you! I’ve heard a Canadian and a Scot on here, both explaining that their health programs work, and are compassionate. They also alow the elite to have more if they desire. The thing is most countries seem to have realized that everybody gets sick and ages. Not just the wealthy, “upper” middle class, and successful private entrepeneurs. I venture to say that they are the minority in fact, in any given society. They all deserve to have medical care, and a society that cares, eventually comes to that decision. NOT everybody in that society, but certainly the majority. This is one of the problems with representative democracy in the way that we have implemented it here in the U.S… It’s not responsive to the majority, but to the elite. It was set up fairly well, but we’re only a little over 2 centuries in, and loopholes are already being exploited in virtually every conceivable way to be a utopia for the ultra-successful, and a relatively cold society to anyone from the middle of the pack, on-down. I will agree that ALL countries who implement ideas based on humanity, often enjoy economic problems in different ways, which may be quite unpleasant for the upper 10 or even 20 percent of the population, and that is also sad. There is NO utopia, after all except for our Father’s kingdom, but countries who provide medicine and such for all, are at least closer to the Christian values espoused by the Son.

The extremes in either direction do not work out. Pure Marxism had many many many flaws. It resulted in horrific situations such as the Soviet Union which collapse in on themselves. The U.S. is leaning too far into the other side of the spectrum, (complete polar opposite of red communism? Unsure what that is called), and the end result can still be a society collapsing in on itself. We’re just not there yet. The entire world needs to be at least a tab bit concerned by now about unbridled free markets, and this wierd high end corporate totalitarian funk that is settling on the world around where there is more and more dehumanization, and less and less compassion for the poor, or even those in the middle.

The way I go on about this, you’d think it’s all I think about, or that I’m becoming paranoid. It’s really not. I just get so bummed about polarization and extremes. Republicans and Democrats. Labor and Torries. No collective or party has ever got it anywhere near correct, and polarized parties are unwilling to indulge others in their ideas. I’m sure this goes on everywhere. But in the U.S. in particular, though we haven’t become violent with each other yet, the two party system is eroding away those things which used to be beautiful about us. We just don’t seem to love each other around here anymore. Even when there is a striking moment of honesty and clarity in the midst of public disaster, such as the early days after our being attacked in New York and Washington in 2001, the good will was trumped and lost almost immediately, both internally and abroad because of polarizing exploitations inflicted into the minds or our citizens by political parties capitalizing on human nature and fear. A new kind of tyranny which I think we have patented, which does not require an iron fist. No Stalin or Hitler are necessary. The elite simply poison our citizens minds in an approximate 50 50 ratio of polarization based on economic status more than anything else, and played out by tinkering with inborn fears of doom, and distrust of others going back to our inception.

Now having said all that…this is why we have our OTHER system. The Lord God, who keeps us in community wherever we may be, and regardless of our political systems and material divisions. Those of us in the society formed by the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have salvation. Perhaps the pain of life is unavoidable. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and all that. Not to be political. But we’re also not supposed to just lay back, and not speak the Gospel.

If I believe that it is more in keeping with the Gospels that we should have universal health care, then I have a DUTY to witness such to my fellow man, (as a Christian), as well as a RIGHT as an American to petition my Government via my vote. But then, that leads me back to the two party system, and… 🤷

…Oh well

May the Peace and Love of our Lord flavor all of your thoughts and ideas,

Steven
 
I had the pleasure of visiting a hospital where you stay while I was on holiday = ) My travel ins. payed for it fortunately. I went to Boulder City Hospital. I was amazed at the initial cost of seeing a doctor for such a small ailment and the cost of the antibiotics. I was treated very nicely though! Next time I visit Las Vegas, I will try to stay well so that I can enjoy my visit!
THANK you! I’ve heard a Canadian and a Scot on here, both explaining that their health programs work, and are compassionate. They also alow the elite to have more if they desire. The thing is most countries seem to have realized that everybody gets sick and ages. Not just the wealthy, “upper” middle class, and successful private entrepeneurs. I venture to say that they are the minority in fact, in any given society. They all deserve to have medical care, and a society that cares, eventually comes to that decision. NOT everybody in that society, but certainly the majority. This is one of the problems with representative democracy in the way that we have implemented it here in the U.S… It’s not responsive to the majority, but to the elite. It was set up fairly well, but we’re only a little over 2 centuries in, and loopholes are already being exploited in virtually every conceivable way to be a utopia for the ultra-successful, and a relatively cold society to anyone from the middle of the pack, on-down. I will agree that ALL countries who implement ideas based on humanity, often enjoy economic problems in different ways, which may be quite unpleasant for the upper 10 or even 20 percent of the population, and that is also sad. There is NO utopia, after all except for our Father’s kingdom, but countries who provide medicine and such for all, are at least closer to the Christian values espoused by the Son.

The extremes in either direction do not work out. Pure Marxism had many many many flaws. It resulted in horrific situations such as the Soviet Union which collapse in on themselves. The U.S. is leaning too far into the other side of the spectrum, (complete polar opposite of red communism? Unsure what that is called), and the end result can still be a society collapsing in on itself. We’re just not there yet. The entire world needs to be at least a tab bit concerned by now about unbridled free markets, and this wierd high end corporate totalitarian funk that is settling on the world around where there is more and more dehumanization, and less and less compassion for the poor, or even those in the middle.

The way I go on about this, you’d think it’s all I think about, or that I’m becoming paranoid. It’s really not. I just get so bummed about polarization and extremes. Republicans and Democrats. Labor and Torries. No collective or party has ever got it anywhere near correct, and polarized parties are unwilling to indulge others in their ideas. I’m sure this goes on everywhere. But in the U.S. in particular, though we haven’t become violent with each other yet, the two party system is eroding away those things which used to be beautiful about us. We just don’t seem to love each other around here anymore. Even when there is a striking moment of honesty and clarity in the midst of public disaster, such as the early days after our being attacked in New York and Washington in 2001, the good will was trumped and lost almost immediately, both internally and abroad because of polarizing exploitations inflicted into the minds or our citizens by political parties capitalizing on human nature and fear. A new kind of tyranny which I think we have patented, which does not require an iron fist. No Stalin or Hitler are necessary. The elite simply poison our citizens minds in an approximate 50 50 ratio of polarization based on economic status more than anything else, and played out by tinkering with inborn fears of doom, and distrust of others going back to our inception.

Now having said all that…this is why we have our OTHER system. The Lord God, who keeps us in community wherever we may be, and regardless of our political systems and material divisions. Those of us in the society formed by the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have salvation. Perhaps the pain of life is unavoidable. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and all that. Not to be political. But we’re also not supposed to just lay back, and not speak the Gospel.

If I believe that it is more in keeping with the Gospels that we should have universal health care, then I have a DUTY to witness such to my fellow man, (as a Christian), as well as a RIGHT as an American to petition my Government via my vote. But then, that leads me back to the two party system, and… 🤷

…Oh well

May the Peace and Love of our Lord flavor all of your thoughts and ideas,

Steven
 
Now here is some reasonable dialog. Not an automatic shut down to all ideas regarding universal health. There may be some merit here. Something to ponder. Problem is, right now, I don’t think anyone in the U.S. Congress is pondering ANYthing.

Peace to you,

Steven
Not true! They are pondering what they can say to either get elected and/or not effect their chances of being elected in a negative fashion. 😛 😃

All eyes are on the 2008 presidential election, so the only legislation you will see in this next Congress will be politically expedient legislation…for example: a universal health care bill written so the president will veto it and each side can beat each other the head with their support/non-support of the middle-class/poor. 👍
 
Now you brought us back to where we were earlier. I pointed out that there are many things we can do to make health care both more available and affordable, without costing the taxpayer a dime:
  1. Medical Savings Accounts – you save money pre-tax to pay for health care and have a cheap, high deductable catestrophic coverage policy. You pay on the spot for treatment, and any unspent money rolls over into your IRA at the end of the year.
  2. Allow people to buy health care insurance across state lines – it’s now illegal, in violation of the Constitution.
  3. Allow unaffiliated businesses to band together to bargain for employee health insurance from a position of strength.
  4. Canadian and European price controls on drugs throw the R&D burden on the Ameican consumer. Make that a free-trade issue.
  5. Control meritless lawsuits. Right now, a lawyer can sue and by accepting a settlement less than the price of defending the case, he can expect the insurance companies to pay him to go away.
What we need is not a one-size-fits-nobody system, but a wide range of choices, so each person can tailor his health care to fit his needs.
I agree on 1& 5, 2 is news to me, HOWEVER the real method is to allow people to by drugs direct and assume the responsiblity of that drug. Many drug costs would fall by 90% and when you choose you could pay a doctor for advice on which drug and how much dose.
 
I agree on 1& 5, 2 is news to me, HOWEVER the real method is to allow people to by drugs direct and assume the responsiblity of that drug. Many drug costs would fall by 90% and when you choose you could pay a doctor for advice on which drug and how much dose.
Aside from the things I listed above, I would like to see a centeralized drug discount card system.

Neither consumers nor suppliers would have to participate – but a participating supplier would have to guarentee costs for a year at a time. A consumer who signed up for the discount card would enter all his prescriptions. He would get a printout with suppliers ranked by their cost to him, based on his prescriptions. He would also be informed if there were generics and told the cost, so he could choose to have cheaper generics, if he wished.

At the end of the year, each consumer would be notified of proposed cost changes, with a new list of suppliers, again rank-ordered by cost to him (and updated for any new or canceled prescriptions, of course.)

With millions of consumers being informed of costs, and each chasing the best deal for himself, we would have real competition in the drug industry.
 
Aside from the things I listed above, I would like to see a centeralized drug discount card system.

Neither consumers nor suppliers would have to participate – but a participating supplier would have to guarentee costs for a year at a time. A consumer who signed up for the discount card would enter all his prescriptions. He would get a printout with suppliers ranked by their cost to him, based on his prescriptions. He would also be informed if there were generics and told the cost, so he could choose to have cheaper generics, if he wished.

At the end of the year, each consumer would be notified of proposed cost changes, with a new list of suppliers, again rank-ordered by cost to him (and updated for any new or canceled prescriptions, of course.)

With millions of consumers being informed of costs, and each chasing the best deal for himself, we would have real competition in the drug industry.
👍
 
“Should broke people receive health care?”

Yes.

*"Should I be **forced *to pay for that health care?"

No.

It should be added that certain kinds of demands often call for a response which is not simply material but which is capable of perceiving the deeper human need. One thinks of the condition of refugees, immigrants, the elderly, the sick, and all those in circumstances which call for assistance, such as drug abusers: all these people can be helped effectively only by those who offer them genuine fraternal support, in addition to the necessary care.
– Pope John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, 48
 
I contacted the Virginia Bureau of Insurance:

They informed me there are two insurance companies that have Guarenteed Issue policies:

Care First (800) 544-8703
Anthem of VA (800) 334-7676

They did say the premiums are high – but let’s take it a step at a time. First we have companies that will accept you. Next, we need to find a way to pay for it – here in Mountain View, our church “adopts” people in need. We pledge to provide support, both financial and otherwise, for people who need it.

Go to your parish and talk to them seriously about the problem and ask for help – it is, after all, one of the things Christ created His Church to do.
Anthem is the only one I can get, those are both Blue Cross Blue Shield companies. They not only have high premiums but refuse to cover the majority of my prescriptions quantity wise, and of those number they don’t cover include all the most expensive ones. It isn’t just a matter of finding a company that will cover me, it is entirely pointless if they won’t cover anything.

BCBS is the company that was my father’s insurance company when I was born. This means they know my entire gory surgical history and do not consider me female. Therefore all the care I need for that, is not covered, which outside of my existing debt is pretty much all of my medical expenses except kidney stones. Doctor visits, therapy, specialist visits, endocrinology, none of that will be covered. I would be paying (or charity) would be paying for insurance that won’t cover the vast majority of my expenses.

I tried Anthem for a year, I ended up going farther in debt because they reject so many claims. I suspect I could fight some of them with a lawyer, but again that costs still more money that I don’t have. Going with Anthem is simply throwing money away, and Carefirst has the exact same policies as them. I especially don’t want to be throwing away a charity’s money, which is what would be happening.
 
Is this known to be true, or is this conjecture?
This is all true, tragically. Even though I find his story angering to me, I do feel sorrow as I knew him and I know his daughter. I use his story to display the issue of insurance companies blanketing everyone, even though some people are obviously higher risk than others.

This is the same issue as motorcyclists who refuse to wear helmets paying the same amount of insurance as people who always wear seatbelts. It’s seems skewed.
 
I believe that as the richest country in the world, we can afford universal health coverage, as in medical savings accounts. Instead of spending billions of dollars on the stupid “War on Drugs”, we should be putting that money to work for our citizens to receive health benefits.
 
This is all true, tragically. Even though I find his story angering to me, I do feel sorrow as I knew him and I know his daughter. I use his story to display the issue of insurance companies blanketing everyone, even though some people are obviously higher risk than others.

This is the same issue as motorcyclists who refuse to wear helmets paying the same amount of insurance as people who always wear seatbelts. It’s seems skewed.
Actually, statistics show that helmits offer no benefit at all to motorcycle riders – an accident at road speed overpowers any helmit.

And what motorcycles have seat belts?😛
 
I believe that as the richest country in the world, we can afford universal health coverage, as in medical savings accounts. Instead of spending billions of dollars on the stupid “War on Drugs”, we should be putting that money to work for our citizens to receive health benefits.
you do know that we are not the “richest” country in the world…
Richest Countries in the World
Rank Country GDP - per capita

1 Luxembourg $ 68,800
2 Equatorial Guinea $ 50,200
3 United Arab Emirates $ 49,700
4 Norway $ 47,800
5 Ireland $ 43,600
6 United States $ 43,500
7 Andorra $ 38,800
8 Iceland $ 38,100
9 Denmark $ 37,000
10 Austria $ 35,500
Source: CIA World Factbook
 
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