Should broke people receive health care?

[juliamajor]

“Are there no Prison are there no Workhouses?” Ebenezer Scrooge .,My son works on a daily basis with such people- you know why the majority of them are broke and can’t afford healthcare- because of the Illnesses they have that they have spent all there money on! As Far as Healthcare outside of us Taiwan’s healthcare is considered top notch and there health care is virtually free and you know there economy is great, their food is cheap, their housing is reasonable al all stuff that shouldn’t happen according to common wisdom

 

[vern_humphrey]

You expect me to rely on the kindness of strangers, the church and society as a whole? I was cast out by my own family. I was cast out of homeless shelters. I was unwelcomed from church.

And upon whose kindness can you rely? Will a faceless bureaucrat, who never met you, be more willing to help than someone who knows you face-to-face?

You expect me to rely on the kindness of these sorts of people? I’m sorry, but I am a very jaded, bitter person. Almost no one has ever willingly helped me with my medical needs, I have had to fight for everything and many basic things are still denied me. I have to constantly switch doctors because of the bills that rack up that I cannot pay.

Now, go back and read my posts – MSAs are a system that would offer help to you. If you cannot pay the premiums, you will get assistance. If you cannot save enough, you will get assistance.

My medical bills consume everything spending dollar I have. This laptop is something I picked up that someone was throwing away and I fixed it. I use free wireless to write here online. I will not deny that I am something of a leech on society, but society seems hellbent on KEEPING me a leech.

And therefore a system that makes 98% of us leeches, and drains the money available to help those who really need help is better!?!?

 

[jmcrae]

And upon whose kindness can you rely? Will a faceless bureaucrat, who never met you, be more willing to help than someone who knows you face-to-face?

Actually, someone who is being paid to help you might be more likely to see it as part of their job …

I have often had good intentions about helping people, and then not followed through because of various distractions in my own life. I suspect this happens to a lot of people.

I had a friend who was going to come over and help me with my housework after I got hit by a bus one time. I ended up hiring a housekeeper, because she never did get around to coming. When you are paying them, people you don’t know are actually more reliable than your friends - it’s just how it is.

 

[pathia]

And upon whose kindness can you rely? Will a faceless bureaucrat, who never met you, be more willing to help than someone who knows you face-to-face?

Let’s see, comparing the two we have the following, from my perspective.

1.) Someone who is paid to be my advocate and to help me get care and medical needs fulfilled.

2.) Rely on completely random acts of kindness from people who have already cast me aside as human refuse.

Wow…what a hard choice.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Let’s see, comparing the two we have the following, from my perspective.

1.) Someone who is paid to be my advocate and to help me get care and medical needs fulfilled.

I take it you mean your lawyer – because no bureaucrat is paid to be your advocate.

2.) Rely on completely random acts of kindness from people who have already cast me aside as human refuse.

Wow…what a hard choice.

You keep falling into the fallacy of limited choices – I have repeatedly given you a different choice – one that would allow you to be your own advocate, and give you the help you need.

 

[pathia]

I take it you mean your lawyer – because no bureaucrat is paid to be your advocate.

You keep falling into the fallacy of limited choices – I have repeatedly given you a different choice – one that would allow you to be your own advocate, and give you the help you need.

I have not seen anyone in power now propose what you are speaking about. I am talking about my real situation, my real debt, my real often homelessness, my real often hospitalizations. This is not some theoretical situation, this is what is happening to me right now. Any plan like yours would literally take over a decade to be useful for me.

As for a lawyer, hah. You think I can afford one? I live off of ramen noodles, mac and cheese and peanute butter sandwiches

 

[vern_humphrey]

I have not seen anyone in power now propose what you are speaking about. I am talking about my real situation, my real debt, my real often homelessness, my real often hospitalizations. This is not some theoretical situation, this is what is happening to me right now. Any plan like yours would literally take over a decade to be useful for me.

Any plan will take over a decade to be useful to you.

And if you live long enough, you will find the system will write you off – like people over 55 in England who needed kidney dialysis.

As for a lawyer, hah. You think I can afford one? I live off of ramen noodles, mac and cheese and peanute butter sandwiches

Then you will not have “someone who is paid to be your advocate and to help you get care and medical needs fulfilled” will you?.

 

[Nino]

the only 'rights 'we have are the right to ,life,libert and the pursuit of happiness…nothing else…we have no rights to live off the sweat of others…if we are ‘poor’ why…we dont want to work in a big macs or what…I started working at the age of 10…during the summers when you and your friends were on the beach listening to the beach boys and their fantasy nonsense,I and other First generation Italo-Americans worked on a farm picking beans for 25cents a bushel!!!..It is not the feds job to support people…churchs can do that as also great organizations like the salvation army…as Jesus said…‘the poor you will always have’…if healthy let em work for their bread…if sickly let a church or volunteer organization help them…Jesus was a carpenter…He could not be fooled by sob stories of …woe is me…when is the soup kitchen open…have some dignity for heavens sake…in other nations I can well see and feel sorry for so many who live in left wing dictatorships…help them of course…but in America…as my blessed dad used to say…give a poor man a sandwich.then some seed and a hoe and tell him to grow his own…amen and amen

 

[pathia]

Then you will not have “someone who is paid to be your advocate and to help you get care and medical needs fulfilled” will you?.

They’re called social workers.

 

[vern_humphrey]

They’re called social workers.

So why haven’t the social workers solved all your problems for you by now?

 

[pathia]

So why haven’t the social workers solved all your problems for you by now?

1.) Because there are no laws that protect me from discrimination. I have been fired over six times for being transsexual. It is within the law, so they cannot act on my behalf.

2.) Because there are no laws that stop insurance companies from denying me coverage. It is within the law, so they cannot act on my behalf.

3.) Given my age and income I do not qualify under the given rules and regulations of Medicare/medicaid. Therefore they cannot act on my behalf.

I’ve spoken with them many a time, but there’s only so much they can do, they have to operate within the law. They cannot force a company to insurance me any more than they can force a company to hire me.

 

[vern_humphrey]

1.) Because there are no laws that protect me from discrimination. I have been fired over six times for being transsexual. It is within the law, so they cannot act on my behalf.

That’s why you need a lawyer.

2.) Because there are no laws that stop insurance companies from denying me coverage. It is within the law, so they cannot act on my behalf.

That’s why we need a better system – like MSAs.

3.) Given my age and income I do not qualify under the given rules and regulations of Medicare/medicaid. Therefore they cannot act on my behalf.

That’s why we need MSAs, so those in your situation can get some help.

I’ve spoken with them many a time, but there’s only so much they can do, they have to operate within the law. They cannot force a company to insurance me any more than they can force a company to hire me.

That’s why we need MSAs – force will never solve your problem.

 

[pathia]

That’s why you need a lawyer.

It isn’t against the law. Believe me, I’ve tried to sue. I’ve contacted the ACLU, the HRC, all sorts of ‘activist’ groups. It simply isn’t a winnable battle. Until it’s against the law, I cannot sue, period. As discussed pages ago in this thread, my only real solution is to move to California where it IS illegal.

MSA’s might help me, but they seem like a pipedream to me. We have HSA’s now, but the money you don’t spend is thrown away at the end of the year, guh, how inefficient.

 

[vern_humphrey]

It isn’t against the law. Believe me, I’ve tried to sue. I’ve contacted the ACLU, the HRC, all sorts of ‘activist’ groups. It simply isn’t a winnable battle. Until it’s against the law, I cannot sue, period. As discussed pages ago in this thread, my only real solution is to move to California where it IS illegal.

I’m not sure I understand how your medical condition is the basis of your firing.

MSA’s might help me, but they seem like a pipedream to me. We have HSA’s now, but the money you don’t spend is thrown away at the end of the year, guh, how inefficient.

The pipedream is that everyone can get “free” healthcare and no one will pay.

MSAs are not HSAs – which I agree are inefficent.

MSAs offer a way to help those who need it, while not pretending everyone can get everything for free. It is the Philosopher’s Stone – Pay as You Go.

 

[pathia]

I’m not sure I understand how your medical condition is the basis of your firing.

Transsexuals are specifically excluded from the Americans with Disabilities Act, it was a concession to get more republicans on board.

It’s also technically considered a mental condition, ie: I am considered mentally unstable/dysfunctional. I also cause strain on HR. Not many of the firings have been ‘We don’t like transsexuals, you’re fired’. Most have literally been. ‘We cannot have you entering the men or women’s bathroom, we have no neutral bathroom. We’re sorry, but we have to let you go for personnel and legal worries.’

 

[vern_humphrey]

Transsexuals are specifically excluded from the Americans with Disabilities Act, it was a concession to get more republicans on board.

It’s also technically considered a mental condition, ie: I am considered mentally unstable/dysfunctional. I also cause strain on HR. Not many of the firings have been ‘We don’t like transsexuals, you’re fired’. Most have literally been. ‘We cannot have you entering the men or women’s bathroom, we have no neutral bathroom. We’re sorry, but we have to let you go for personnel and legal worries.’

I still don’t understand it – you can surely make the case they knew their bathroom situation when they hired you.

 

[pathia]

I still don’t understand it – you can surely make the case they knew their bathroom situation when they hired you.

No, because I don’t announce my medical problems to my employers. Why would I do that? It’s none of their business. I am not a out and loud advocate. I need the job, I need the money. Why am I going to spontaneously announce, during an interview, a list of things they ‘have to do’ when really they don’t have to do any of it, they can just let me do my job.

They find out when they do background checks and notice my degrees are in another name, or that I had filed a name/sexchange with the courts in the past. All of that is public record, it is not allowed to be sealed, anyone can find out with a few phone calls. I am legally female on every single document I have, except my birth certificate and that’s because the law in the state I was born in forbids changing it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

No, because I don’t announce my medical problems to my employers. Why would I do that? It’s none of their business. I am not a out and loud advocate. I need the job, I need the money. Why am I going to spontaneously announce, during an interview, a list of things they ‘have to do’ when really they don’t have to do any of it, they can just let me do my job.

They find out when they do background checks and notice my degrees are in another name, or that I had filed a name/sexchange with the courts in the past. All of that is public record, it is not allowed to be sealed, anyone can find out with a few phone calls. I am legally female on every single document I have, except my birth certificate and that’s because the law in the state I was born in forbids changing it.

Try a different tactic – be up front about eveything. Tell them ahead of time. What have you got to lose?

Look at it from their point of view – they probably feel you should have told them at the outset, and the fact that you didn’t tells against you.

 

[pathia]

Try a different tactic – be up front about eveything. Tell them ahead of time. What have you got to lose?

Look at it from their point of view – they probably feel you should have told them at the outset, and the fact that you didn’t tells against you.

Why is it their business? How does it impact them? It doesn’t, the only reason it does is because they are prying into my private life.

Much talk on this forum about how it’s annoying when gay people announce that they are gay, but I am REQUIRED to tell them about MY lifestyle. Why is it different? That is completely illogical as far as I can see.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Why is it their business? How does it impact them? It doesn’t, the only reason it does is because they are prying into my private life.

Much talk on this forum about how it’s annoying when gay people announce that they are gay, but I am REQUIRED to tell them about MY lifestyle. Why is it different? That is completely illogical as far as I can see.

We have an old saying in the Infantry, “If it’s stupid and it works – it isn’t stupid.”

I think if you are applying for a job, and know from experience that when your condition is known it will cause problems, it only makes sense to get it out into the open. After all, you discuss your condition with people you’ve never met (like me) don’t you?

So why not lay it out for them – the worst they can do is not hire you. But if they do hire you, they are not likely to fire you later for something you told them upfront, are they?