Should Catholic parents attend gay child's nuptials?

[Philothea53]

There would be no way I could not attend if a child of mine were seeking to be joined in holy union to their partner.

There’s not many joys that gay people have when it comes to society as a whole affirming their relationships.

A ‘marriage’ between two homosexuals is in most cases not recognized as a marriage in civil law. It is never recognized as a marriage in Church law. There is nothing HOLY about the union of two homosexuals in a way that is reserved for one man, one woman. The lack of joy for gay people is because they are looking for affirmation of a disorder.

Right or wrong? Love demands nothing less but that I attend…there is One who entered into our humanity to show his love, there is One who was not afraid to sit with the publicans, harlots and sinners of his day because it might offend the religious, so too he calls me to attend in his stead…to show love, where love is needed, kindness where it it sadly lacking and mercy even if I should disagree, because mercy was shown to me in no small measure.

We are not to confirm others in their sin by sharing with them in celebration of that sin. That isn’t to say you have to never speak to this person again, on the contrary, you don’t want to lose contact with him. But to be present at a sham of a marriage ceremony? You are complicit in his sin. Would you then march with him in a so-called “Gay Pride” parade? I would think not.

 

[AndyF]

This would be a civil marriage, not a church marriage. Does the demon preside over civil marriages as well?

For a man and woman it has not received the full Sanction it could have, since they would not benefit from the Fruits the Church provides. For HS marriage nothing can change the state. Never will this union be sanctioned by God. If it means everything that they have His sanction, then this is something to be resolved. If it means nothing, then they have a civil contract only based on a sinful law, but not a Marriage by Devine definition.

This is the overriding issue. The Church wishes that man return to the Church so that he may make the correct choices and be guided by the Word as well as benefit and arm himself by the reception of the Fruits of the Church.

Society has taken it upon itself to replace one of the fruits of that union between man and Church, ie: the Sacrament of Matrimony, and now many Church members follow the sectarian movement that has assisted many to be drawn away from the Church. So we can see this problem is only one effect that man caused by his willful severance from the Church.

Catechism of the Church says this.

1630 The priest (or deacon) who assists at the celebration of a marriage receives the consent of the spouses in the name of the Church and gives the blessing of the Church. The presence of the Church’s minister (and also of the witnesses) visibly expresses the fact that marriage is an ecclesial reality.

1631 This is the reason why the Church normally requires that the faithful contract marriage according to the ecclesiastical form. Several reasons converge to explain this requirement:

• Sacramental marriage is a liturgical act. It is therefore appropriate that** it should be celebrated in the public liturgy of the Church;**
• Marriage introduces one into an ecclesial order, and creates rights and duties in the Church between the spouses and towards their children;
• Since marriage** is a state of life in the Church**, certainty about it is necessary (hence the obligation to have witnesses);

The following helps to explain how this unfortunate couple find themselves in such a precarious position.
.
**1632**So that the “I do” of the spouses may be a free and responsible act and so that the marriage covenant may have solid and lasting human and Christian foundations, preparation for marriage is of prime importance. The role of pastors and of the Christian community as the “family of God” is indispensable for the **transmission of the human and Christian values of marriage and family, ** and much more so in our era when many young people experience broken homes which no longer sufficiently assure this initiation: **The example and teaching given by parents and families remain the special form of this preparation. **
It is imperative to give suitable and timely instruction to young people, above all in the heart of their own families, about the dignity of married love, its role and its exercise, so that, having learned the value of chastity, they will be able at a suitable age to engage in honorable courtship and enter upon a marriage of their own.

Andy

 

[Publisher]

A ‘marriage’ between two homosexuals is in most cases not recognized as a marriage in civil law. It is never recognized as a marriage in Church law. There is nothing HOLY about the union of two homosexuals in a way that is reserved for one man, one woman. The lack of joy for gay people is because they are looking for affirmation of a disorder.

We are not to confirm others in their sin by sharing with them in celebration of that sin. That isn’t to say you have to never speak to this person again, on the contrary, you don’t want to lose contact with him. But to be present at a sham of a marriage ceremony? You are complicit in his sin. Would you then march with him in a so-called “Gay Pride” parade? I would think not.

Yes actually, I have marched in Pride Parades with my gay brothers and sisters. The Society of Friends believes there is that of God in each and every one of us. All, not some, are worthy of respect and dignity. We seek to answer that of God in each person, by appealing to that of God in one another, we can bypass much of the contention that separates us. We as Friends seek to live “incarnational” lives, to “be Jesus” in this world.

Love has called me into places I have questioned…but the purpose of the call was seen later.

I believe in equality under the law…I have been on the Oversight Committee in my Meeting that accepted the care of a same sex couple desire to join, we approved the “marriage” and schedluled a Meeting for Worship for Marriage.

It is a traditional Meeting for Worship, at the appointed time the couple stands and speaks to one another…
“In the presence of God and these our friends, I take thee … to be my wife (husband, partner), promising with Divine assistance to be unto thee a loving and faithful husband (wife, partner) so long as we both shall live.”

Then they sit down, and after a time the Meeting is concluded by everyone shaking hands…the “marriage” certificate is signed by all present…we have no priests or ministers officiating, Christ is truly present among us and is the present Presider over evey meeting.

So, I commend them into the hands of a loving God, who shows unbounded mercy and compassion, I could not think of being absent for such an occasion for one of my children…I’ll too place myself and them in God’s hands…I’m in very Good Hands after all.

 

[latinmasslover]

Attending is not the same thing as being a buddy, and it is not the same thing as demonstrating approval of the behaviour.

If Padre Pio did what you say he did, I think he was wrong.

Of course, you are right, and the canonized saint is wrong. if you do not value the soul/s of your child/children, by all means, attend the wedding. However, before you go supporting it could you give one Scripture verse, one Church teaching/implication, one Saint that has said it’s okay to consent to mortal sin because the person is family. St. Rita prayed that God take the lives of her sons to keep them from committing murder…and they died in the state of grace…without having to confess the murders that never occured as a result. Of course, maybe she was wrong too. We all know that modern society has it right.

 

[latinmasslover]

That’s… pretty horrifying. Wasn’t he there to absolve her of her sins?

Actually, she went back to him later and he did absolve her. Points have to be made though, and if I found out that somebody I loved went to Hell who wouldn’t have gone if it weren’t for the example of…I’d have to pray hard to keep from ripping that person to shreds.

 

[CrypticWritings]

Another thread on this particular forum got me wondering about gay marriage.

Hypothetical: Your son or daughter wanted to marry their significant other in a state which allows such marriages. Would you attend? Why or why not?

Would it make a difference if by not attending the marriage ceremony it may put a strain your relationship with your child?

False charity is one of the major problems we have in today’s society.
I would let my children know that I did not approve and let them know also why it is wrong, but that I wold be there for them if needed provided what I was asked didn’t conflict with morality
Often the more loving thing to do is to chastise the sinner just as God chastises those He loves when there is need.
It is important not to act upon feelings, but instead to act upon reason.

 

[latinmasslover]

Yes actually, I have marched in Pride Parades with my gay brothers and sisters. The Society of Friends believes there is that of God in each and every one of us. All, not some, are worthy of respect and dignity. We seek to answer that of God in each person, by appealing to that of God in one another, we can bypass much of the contention that separates us. We as Friends seek to live “incarnational” lives, to “be Jesus” in this world.

Love has called me into places I have questioned…but the purpose of the call was seen later.

I believe in equality under the law…I have been on the Oversight Committee in my Meeting that accepted the care of a same sex couple desire to join, we approved the “marriage” and schedluled a Meeting for Worship for Marriage.

It is a traditional Meeting for Worship, at the appointed time the couple stands and speaks to one another…
“In the presence of God and these our friends, I take thee … to be my wife (husband, partner), promising with Divine assistance to be unto thee a loving and faithful husband (wife, partner) so long as we both shall live.”

Then they sit down, and after a time the Meeting is concluded by everyone shaking hands…the “marriage” certificate is signed by all present…we have no priests or ministers officiating, Christ is truly present among us and is the present Presider over evey meeting.

So, I commend them into the hands of a loving God, who shows unbounded mercy and compassion, I could not think of being absent for such an occasion for one of my children…I’ll too place myself and them in God’s hands…I’m in very Good Hands after all.

It is not love to say “screw what God says, do what you want.” You need to reveal one Scripture verse and one Saint and one Church document that supports your claims. Just one of each, or even one of the three. Until then, you’re expressing personal opinion which has no bearing on anyone serious about following God. Love hurts sometimes. Keep in mind there is a Hell, and people do go there. God is all-loving, and He doesn’t want to see any of His children there, but there is free will. Instead of marching in the gay parades and attending gay “marriages,” your time would be better spent offering Rosaries and Holy Hours for their conversion.

 

[StevenFrancis]

Regarding a gay nuptial? No. I wouldn’t attend, but I would have a long talk with my kid explaining the reasons and that I love them.

I’ve thought about this deeply, and I think this is where I end up as well. I know it would hurt my child deeply, but at the same time, one of the greatest values we teach our children is to be true to yourself.

I would pray that my child would understand, eventually, and the talk we would have before my non-attendance would be very loving and heartfelt.

The “partner” would always be welcome in my home, and I would always treat them with love and respect, as Christ wants us to do. I just could never sanction their marriage. I guess I’d try to keep on other topics when they were over. If ever asked direct and outright though, I’d have to be honest about the teachings.

Tough dilemma. My heart goes out to anyone having to be in this situation.

Peace,

Steven

 

[stadre]

Exactly. As part of educating our son, he is aware of the Church’s laws on marriage and that he is bound to them as a Catholic. He knows about dispensation from form, etc. He also knows that should he ever choose to enter an invalid “marriage”, his mother and father will not attend.

Are DH and I the only Catholics on earth who actually TEACH our kid about valid Catholic marriage? I’m beginning to think we are oddballs

Of course, but, by being very clear about what the law is and what the ramifications of breaking that law are, as an adult they can make an INFORMED decision to break that law. The second half is to let your kids know, if you break either civil or Church law, I will not be a party to it. I won’t drive the car if you rob a bank, I won’t help you sell drugs, and I won’t attend an invalid wedding. If you break civil law and go to prision, I will visit you and love you the entire time. If you break Church law and endanger your mortal soul, I will still love you and pray for you, I will listen to you and visit you - I just will not support you in that error.

We have to show our kids - through our actions - that we will stand up for what is right. My son knows that I have dear friends who ARE gay. He knows these people, and knows that I love these people. I do not shun people - heck, I’m a real softie.

I have a friend who is having an affair. I still love her and go to her home and she comes to mine - we are good friends. I REFUSE to let her use me “cover excuse” so she can meet her lover.

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

These are great replies.

 

[Edward62]

Yes, I definitely would. I know that I am violating Church policy in holding this belief, but I think that love between a gay or lesbian couple is just as real and valid as love between a straight couple and should be treated that way in marriages. I would support my child and their spouse without question.

 

[latinmasslover]

Why are half the people here putting their personal (and very worldly) opinion before God? Where in the Scriptures did God bless anybody who disobeyed Him, or made a mockery of ***His ***laws because they felt, ultimitely, that He is wrong. Can anybody who supports this nonsense back up what they’re saying without the vague “well, Jesus loves everybody” statement? To the woman caught in adultery He wasn’t saying “Introduce me to your lover.” He said “Go and SIN NO MORE.”

 

[francesco920]

Why are half the people here putting their personal (and very worldly) opinion before God? Where in the Scriptures did God bless anybody who disobeyed Him, or made a mockery of ***His ***laws because they felt, ultimitely, that He is wrong. Can anybody who supports this nonsense back up what they’re saying without the vague “well, Jesus loves everybody” statement? To the woman caught in adultery He wasn’t saying “Introduce me to your lover.” He said “Go and SIN NO MORE.”

If you listen enough to these people you’d start to think He said “Go and don’t worry about it anymore…as long as it makes you happy and feel good it’s fine with Me!”

 

[StevenFrancis]

Why are half the people here putting their personal (and very worldly) opinion before God? Where in the Scriptures did God bless anybody who disobeyed Him, or made a mockery of ***His ***laws because they felt, ultimitely, that He is wrong. Can anybody who supports this nonsense back up what they’re saying without the vague “well, Jesus loves everybody” statement? To the woman caught in adultery He wasn’t saying “Introduce me to your lover.” He said “Go and SIN NO MORE.”

Thank you. Every sentence a true and valid point. I don’t know how we’ll ever get back to reality as a society. People have gone to such great lengths to “feel good” about themselves that they want the entire world to change to suit their sickness. And as far as I can tell, they’ve succeeded. We can speak ill of alcoholism, drug abuse, adultry etc., and easily seperate the sinners from the sins without being looked at as ogres in conversation, etc… Try talking ill of homosexuality at your next dinner party, and see how that goes over. Try suggesting a 12 step program for homosexuality to a group of homosexuals, as we’d have no problem doing to a group of alcoholics. This homosexual lobby has been so successful, that I honestly believe that most Christians have dismissed it as a sin. As if we had an individual right to change the teachings of the Lord and Saviour just in order to be politically correct. Our children or at least our Grandchildren are not even going to fight it within themselves. The first sign of SSA, and they’ll just shrug their shoulders, and decide that’s the way it is. This will mean essentially the end of the human race, since nearly every person ever born has felt same sense attraction for a fleeting moment at least at some point. You know…there are morally, ethically, and even scientifically, and anthropologically significant reasons why these things that God has taught us are the way they are. It is in order that man may continue to thrive. Marriage is disappearing. Love can be anything, as long as you’re not “hurting anybody”. We’re not replacing ourselves anymore, and who knows…maybe that’s how it’s supposed to be. Maybe this is how it all ends. With a whimper instead of a bang. Oh well. I’m done with the little tirade. I’m now off the pedestal. Flame and fire away. I love you all. Truly I do. I will keep every one, gay and straight in my heart and in my prayers, and hope that we all find our way. I KNOW I need to see the log in my own eye before the speck in my brother’s eye, so I ask you to forgive me my frustration with the whole thing. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Peace to all,

God is love,

Steven

 

[francesco920]

Yes, I definitely would. I know that I am violating Church policy in holding this belief, but I think that love between a gay or lesbian couple is just as real and valid as love between a straight couple and should be treated that way in marriages. I would support my child and their spouse without question.

You are not simply violating “Church policy” you are violating the teachings of Jesus Christ.

If the love between gay couples was “real and valid” they would not be helping each other to commit grave sexual sins and therefore separate themselves from God but rather they would be helping each other to get to Heaven.

True love is not ultimately about supporting another’s decision (which is a euphemism for confirming another in his sin) or making him feel happy and good but rather about trying to help him get to Heaven. A parent can support a child’s “decision” all he wants but when that child ends up in Hell all that well-intentioned, sentimental support will have counted for absolutely *nothing.
*
“For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?” - Matthew 16:24

 

[fire_and_ice]

You shall love the lord your God with all your heart and mind. God comes first.

 

[stadre]

Right or wrong? Love demands nothing less but that I attend…there is One who entered into our humanity to show his love, there is One who was not afraid to sit with the publicans, harlots and sinners of his day because it might offend the religious, so too he calls me to attend in his stead…to show love, where love is needed, kindness where it it sadly lacking and mercy even if I should disagree, because mercy was shown to me in no small measure.

I must be missing something. Please help me find where Jesus sat with sinners to affirm them in their sins. I thought he challenged them to “sin no more.”

 

[Penny_Plain]

Of course, you are right, and the canonized saint is wrong. if you do not value the soul/s of your child/children, by all means, attend the wedding. However, before you go supporting it could you give one Scripture verse, one Church teaching/implication, one Saint that has said it’s okay to consent to mortal sin because the person is family.

Well, it could happen. Canonized saints aren’t infallible, are they?

As for the rest of it, you assume that attendance equals consent. It doesn’t.

 

[CrypticWritings]

Well, it could happen. Canonized saints aren’t infallible, are they?

As for the rest of it, you assume that attendance equals consent. It doesn’t.

Not true, voluntary attendance at the age of reason with a properly formed conscience does equate to consent. The problem is that no one these days has the fortitude to do what is right.
For example: One who attends a boxing match, consents to the behavior of two people engaging in boxing.

Many parents today say “But I just want them to be happy”. And that is precisely false charity and not true happiness which is in all reality beatitude. Happiness is only passing and temporary while beatitude is permanent (eternal). Most people are wrong in trying to achieve only “happiness”.

 

[CrypticWritings]

Why are half the people here putting their personal (and very worldly) opinion before God? Where in the Scriptures did God bless anybody who disobeyed Him, or made a mockery of ***His ***laws because they felt, ultimitely, that He is wrong. Can anybody who supports this nonsense back up what they’re saying without the vague “well, Jesus loves everybody” statement? To the woman caught in adultery He wasn’t saying “Introduce me to your lover.” He said “Go and SIN NO MORE.”

Thank you for making complete sense! :dancing:

 

[francesco920]

Well, it could happen. Canonized saints aren’t infallible, are they?

As for the rest of it, you assume that attendance equals consent. It doesn’t.

Perhaps to you it doesn’t, but to a degree it definitely does to the child whose “marriage” you’re attending.

The point is not about what you think but what you will cause the child getting “married” to think. Having his parents refuse to go to the “wedding” would send a clear message to him. Having his parents go to the “wedding”, even if they have told him they oppose it 100%, will send mixed signals: “Mom and dad said they oppose it, but they’re here so it can’t be that bad…”