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Marfran
Guest
I don’t know. Why don’t you test it out and get back to us. You can be our consumer reporter.
Does it work?
- Status
M
Marfran
Guest
(1) I like your son. He hasn’t been around in awhile. Or do you have more than one?
(2) What about the parts of the world where they eat little animal protein? Like rural China. In rural China 9 to 10% of total calories comes from protein, yet only 10% of that amount is derived from animal foods. In contrast the American diet features 15 to 16% of calories from protein with 80% of that from animal foods.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
One hopes it’s an honest film, but the preview doesn’t necessarily lead one to think it.
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Marfran
Guest
Robert Kenner is an award winning documentary filmmaker. He has a really good reputation. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kenner
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Cracker_Mom
Guest
Or guinea pig.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
- If my son has been on here, I am not aware of it.
- Some parts of the world are useful for row crops and some are not. It may be noted that China imports ever-increasing amounts of meat from the U.S. and Australia, including “factory farm” food. China has also increased its own output of meat, but it’s very difficult to do there for a number of reasons. The eastern seaboard areas of China are the only parts of the country that are “modernizing” in a significant way, and some consider them simply an economic extension of the American West Coast. The interior of China is still terribly poor, and it may be questioned whether and when conditions will improve significantly there, if they ever do.
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Drawmack
Guest
Served with eggs over easy, toast, and a healthy topping of apple butter … YUMMY!
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Drawmack
Guest
But don’t forget that China is a very mountainous country. They have little flat land for raising large food animals. But consider that they eat a lot of rodent meat in the Chinese country too.
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Bill_Cherry
Guest
**To be fair, I should qualify myself as an apostate Mormon from the age of 14 (where I served in the “Aaronic Priesthood”). While not privy to some of the more “secret” doctrine of the Elders, I did have chance to overhear many midnight discussions between my father (whom I have the highest regard for) and the Elders who came to visit often. It caused me to seek out ‘truth’ and ‘the true Jesus’ - as they put it, with their blessings. It eventually led me to The RCC (to their dismay…). My friends and neighbors are predominantly LDS, and we do have a mutual respect for each other; agreeing to disagree on certain subjects.
There is, however, a human tendency to become like those you associate with.If I want to fit in and have familiarity, (“for without familiarity we have no friends” - The Imitation of Mary** ) I , of course assimilated certain attitudes and behaviors considered socially acceptable. We all do it. It is the course of human interaction.
The fundamental differences of how each Church qualifies the creation is at odds on several levels and effects how each person interacts with man, nature and God.
{That is a bit off topic and maybe we could explore that in a new thread…it would be a fascinating venture into hermeneutics and comparative religion I think.}
Anyway,…I wish in no way to imply that all farming practices are inherently bad. I know first hand that most farmers approach it as a vocation and a labor of love and not as just a ‘job’ they ‘have to do’. On a side note I would encourage any readers of this thread to purchase your food as locally as you possibly can and support the community of farmers in your county or state…
I also, do not see how one can separate the “rights” (for lack of a better word) of livestock from those of their beloved family pets. Would you treat your dog, cat or guinea pig in the same fashion?..As an object suitable only for human consumption? (I am creeping into sketchy territory now, I know - but the issue should be addressed.) Does the catechism not teach us that no creature should be given over to inhumane or unnecessary treatment?
Please do not get angry…I just think the questions should be addressed…as the thread is “Should Catholics be concerned about animals”
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Drawmack
Guest
I grew up on a farm and there wasn’t one, single, animal on that farm that did not have a job. The cats were for rodent control. If there started to be too many mice, rats, moles, and voles around we stopped putting out cat food until the cats got hungry enough to fix the rodent problem. Dogs were for herding, guarding, and hunting there wasn’t a single dog on the farm that wasn’t trained to accomplish at least two of these tasks. So, while the cattle’s job was to grow big and strong and become a nice roast the dogs job was to ensure this happened by helping keep predators out of the pastures. I think that city people do not realize that farmers have a consistent ethic between their “pets” and their “stock”. On a farm, every animal (even the people) works for its keep!
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Bill_Cherry
Guest
I am going to go out on a limb here and draw a comparison then between livestock and Christ…Both give their lives for you.
I hope that doesn’t make anyone angry.:blush:It just seems like a logical comparison when saying it is the cattles ‘job’ to die and be eaten…
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Cracker_Mom
Guest
The Lamb of God refers to sacrifice. Not too far off a comparison.
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Cracker_Mom
Guest
(Voles are a kind of field mouse. They do a lot of damage to trees in the winter by chewing the bark off near the base& destroy ornamental plants in nurseries.)
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Given this information, I would certainly defer to your expertise as concerns the Mormon religion.
We wouldn’t eat the family dog, though I guess some Asians do. Still, we kill other creatures, e.g. insects, without giving it much thought, though Jains scrupulously try to avoid it. We all kill germs at every moment and it might be awful to be eaten by a macrophage, from the germ’s point of view.
But I will agree that deliberately treating animals in an inhumane manner is wrong. The question remains, though, whether all “factory farming” is inhumane compared to, say, “Old McDonald’s Farm” or some other model. In my experience, Old McDonald didn’t leave a whole lot to be desired as compared to the factory farming operations I have seen.
But then, are pigs offended by the filth at Old McDonald’s Farm more than by the slats and concrete at a hog growout facility? I don’t know. I will say that in my experience and observation, cattle are certainly raised more humanely now than they were when I was a kid; primarily because ranchers understand the animals and the optimal growing conditions better now than they did then. I could explain more about that, but it would probably be boring.
But it also needs to be realized that cattle ranching operations are mostly “cow/calf” operations. Anymore, cow/calf ranchers do all or most of their own “backgrounding”, and those who don’t are trying to convert to doing it. So there is nothing left for major organizations to do other than that last bit of finishing. I note with interest that IBP, the biggest of them all (now part of Tyson’s) got completely out of the feedlot business. I’m not altogether sure why they did it except that it was a money-loser for them. My guess is that the shortened finishing periods now prevalent just didn’t make it worthwhile for them to keep them going for short turnarounds. I have also noticed that, around here anyway, a number of former “backgrounders” have converted to finishing; doubtless because the cow/calf operators are doing their own backgrounding as abovementioned.
All of the “backgrounders” (now going to finishing) I am familiar with, are independent operators who have their own farms, and the steers and heifers do some grazing but also have “free choice” grain feeders. I can’t say whether that is getting to be typical or not.
From, say, IBP’s point of view, they are “upstreaming” costs, no doubt. But then, with cow/calf ranchers now backgrounding (usually grass only) and former “backgrounders” doing finishing, it’s possible the former are simply more efficient or can live with the lesser incremental returns. I am told big agribusiness concerns use a 40% anticipated annual gross return as the benchmark for new investment, whereas an individual will be satisfied with a lot less. As a cow/calf operator who now “backgrounds” on grass as well, I can say that it’s well worth it to me, because there is now almost no dropoff in price between low weights and high weights, (as there used to be) and if you have the grass, it definitely pays. I assume the “backgrounder/finishers” are making money, or I don’t guess they would be doing it.
Perhaps those who oppose factory farming could take some comfort in that development. Interestingly, it is generally thought that the increased prices of corn and soybeans are responsible for it. It’s a lot cheaper to put on pounds from grass (though slower) than it is with grain now. If you own the land, (and some even rent) grass is the cheapest way to put on pounds that there is.
Personally, I never feed grain except sometimes a little medicated “creep feed” to calves during “pinkeye season” so they will acquire immunity without eye damage. Never to bigger animals. That creep feed is mostly composed of ground up corn cobs, since small calves can’t digest actual grain well at all. But they do tolerate the ground up corn cobs quite well. In fact, it seems to aid in the “milk to grass” digestive conversion every calf undergoes as the cow’s milk supply declines naturally.
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Bill_Cherry
Guest
I think it could give one a little more appreciation for the meat at their dinner table…
except, Jesus went willingly. I hardly expect that the cow did. Although, I understand that when a ‘bushman’ from Africa has to hunt, they will apologize to the animal and explain that it was necessary to feed their family and thank their game and ask for forgiveness. really!
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Bill_Cherry
Guest
I did not know that.
Thank you, Cracker Mom!
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Bill_Cherry
Guest
The Jains believe in reincarnation to the extent that they are afraid they might be killing a relative or friend. Some actually carry a little broom with them to sweep small insects out of the way when they travel!
A symptom of life and death, I suppose. I try to let the birds do the pest control in my garden. Although, sometimes I have to do it. I figure that it is sort of like protecting myself from predators.
My understanding is that it is in fact such a losing proposition that many farmers receive government subsidies to support their industry.This is often touted on vegan websites as a reason for the ‘inefficiency’ of raising cattle for food and they cry out to have the subsidies stopped; citing that free enterprise will set the precedence for reform. I do not know first hand. So, I am not qualified to make that call. I do know that I would hate to see anybody lose their lively hood for whatever reason…
beeflinks.com/backgrounding.htm
I had to look it up!
**This has been rather educational for me, Ridgerunner. I have to admit that I like discussing this with you. I offer you my respect.:tiphat: and look forward to more conversation with you.
Bill**
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Drawmack
Guest
That doesn’t make me angry, but it seems a little silly considering that all food was once alive. Maybe you should be comparing cabbage to Christ.
M
Marfran
Guest
- Maybe I’m mixing you up with someone else
- The Chinese and their newly found Western taste for meat is coverered in a June National Geographic article. I was speaking of the rural Chinese who have very little in the way of animal products in their diet. A significant observance of the incidence of liver cancer in the Chinese eating the Western diet is covered in the book ***The China Study. ***
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Bill_Cherry
Guest
Touche!:knight2: As I said to Cracker Mom,…it only serves to add to the appreciation of the food at my dinner table…
…through Christ, Our Lord. Amen…- Status