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exnihilo
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At some point you didn’t know English. How did you learn it? You couldn’t understand it prior to understanding it.
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Pup7
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And when someone spoke to me in English, I didn’t understand it. I couldn’t understand simile or metaphor or idiom - until I learned it.
Sort of the same way with non-native speakers.
You don’t get that stuff until you learn it. And you don’t learn it at first pass. Even my British husband sometimes has a blank expression when the Americans around him are cracking up at something someone has said because he doesn’t get the reference. He couldn’t - he’s never been exposed to it until that time. Explain the reference, and he sees the humor. Otherwise - nothing. Same thing happens with me in the UK. And that’s the exact same language.
Sort of the same way with non-native speakers.
You don’t get that stuff until you learn it. And you don’t learn it at first pass. Even my British husband sometimes has a blank expression when the Americans around him are cracking up at something someone has said because he doesn’t get the reference. He couldn’t - he’s never been exposed to it until that time. Explain the reference, and he sees the humor. Otherwise - nothing. Same thing happens with me in the UK. And that’s the exact same language.
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Ecclesiastes
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I have a PhD in research psychology and psychologists know full well that unconscious, subliminal stimuli can easily have a large effect on a person’s behavior without any of the stimuli becoming conscious.
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LiliesofMaria
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Huh, I thought the opposite of Solo and the new trilogy regarding SJW stuff.
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Pup7
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Pretty hard to respond to stimuli you don’t understand.
If the word “Coke” flashes in an advert, but you have no familiarity with the product, how can you be influenced by it? You can’t be.
My husband makes cultural references to stuff and thinks it’s hilarious. I don’t respond because I’m not a Brit, didn’t grow up in the UK, and don’t know why it’s funny. Or a non-native speaker not understanding metaphor.
It’s like when deaf people get cochlear implants. Suddenly they hear a fire alarm, but they don’t know what it is. Or an ambulance siren, but they don’t know what it is. So they don’t know what it means - until someone tells them.
I’m not talking about subliminal messages for popcorn and sodas that we are all familiar with - I’m talking about comprehending innuendo that you have no clue what it means. It literally “goes right over your head”.
Knowing about subliminal advertising doesn’t take a psychology PhD. But I can’t believe that you can be influenced by a message that you don’t even “see”. It would be like a subliminal message for a foreign product in a US advert. Means nothing - because we don’t know what it is.
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Ecclesiastes
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True that if you search the Internet you will find those who try to debunk the effects of subliminal stimuli, but there exists many published studies that clearly show that the effects are real. If you do not believe me, do a quick search and read the studies that found subliminal stimuli to have an effect. Just because some studies did not show this effect is no way a valid means to try and debunk all the studies that have shown this effect to be real.
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Pup7
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That isn’t what I said. I have not once said that subliminal messaging isn’t real. That’s also not what I’ve actually been talking about. I’m talking about how kids learn and what they understand and at what age. A three year old will not understand a sex reference wrapped in innuendo because they don’t know what it is. It’s why parts of Shrek are not funny to kids - they absolutely don’t understand it.
I said that you can’t process a stimuli you’ve never seen. Flash a foreign product (say, some sort of Korean snack IN KOREAN) in a subliminal message and I’m not going to know that it’s supposed to make my mouth water because it’s chocolate. I’ve never seen it before and I don’t know what it is. Flash popcorn or Coke or Hershey’s, and yes - I’ll likely subconsciously pick it up.
That’s not internet research. That’s common sense.
Do you know what this product is? I actually do and after I learned what they were (LOL), I bought them all the time when I lived there. Unless you read Korean (and I’m not even sure that’s even stylized Korean, LOL, since some stuff over there does come from Japan and China), or you’ve experienced this product, my guess is you don’t. Assuming that’s true, you really wouldn’t subliminally respond to that because you have no clue what it is. (It’s not chocolate either. LOL.)
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But I wasn’t talking about that to start with.
Not too sure how I’m not making my point clear.
I said that you can’t process a stimuli you’ve never seen. Flash a foreign product (say, some sort of Korean snack IN KOREAN) in a subliminal message and I’m not going to know that it’s supposed to make my mouth water because it’s chocolate. I’ve never seen it before and I don’t know what it is. Flash popcorn or Coke or Hershey’s, and yes - I’ll likely subconsciously pick it up.
That’s not internet research. That’s common sense.
Do you know what this product is? I actually do and after I learned what they were (LOL), I bought them all the time when I lived there. Unless you read Korean (and I’m not even sure that’s even stylized Korean, LOL, since some stuff over there does come from Japan and China), or you’ve experienced this product, my guess is you don’t. Assuming that’s true, you really wouldn’t subliminally respond to that because you have no clue what it is. (It’s not chocolate either. LOL.)
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But I wasn’t talking about that to start with.
Not too sure how I’m not making my point clear.
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Ecclesiastes
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Yes, not just any subliminal stimuli will produce effects. This goes without saying.
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Pup7
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They’re awesome.
I guess they are a little bit chocolate.
They’re cookie sticks coated with chocolate and almonds. They’re a little bit like Japanese Pocky. LOL I have NO earthly idea what they’re called - but I know that bag, and I know the logo even if I can’t read it. But it’s only because I learned what the snack was.
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If you overhear me in, maybe, the dentist’s waiting room, say, “I used to got to Tom and Tom’s all the time in Seoul and I loved it,”, you likely have no idea what Tom and Tom’s is. So you’d either ask me, or just let the phrase go. It holds no meaning for you. But if you’ve been to Seoul, you might say, “Really? I thought Holly’s was better!” because you’d know I was talking about a coffee shop chain. (Holly’s, in reality, is better for sweet cream iced lattes, but the regular latte in Tom’s can’t be beat.)
You have to know what it is you’re hearing. You have to have a frame of reference. You can’t be influenced by something you know absolutely nothing about.
I guess they are a little bit chocolate.
They’re cookie sticks coated with chocolate and almonds. They’re a little bit like Japanese Pocky. LOL I have NO earthly idea what they’re called - but I know that bag, and I know the logo even if I can’t read it. But it’s only because I learned what the snack was.
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If you overhear me in, maybe, the dentist’s waiting room, say, “I used to got to Tom and Tom’s all the time in Seoul and I loved it,”, you likely have no idea what Tom and Tom’s is. So you’d either ask me, or just let the phrase go. It holds no meaning for you. But if you’ve been to Seoul, you might say, “Really? I thought Holly’s was better!” because you’d know I was talking about a coffee shop chain. (Holly’s, in reality, is better for sweet cream iced lattes, but the regular latte in Tom’s can’t be beat.)
You have to know what it is you’re hearing. You have to have a frame of reference. You can’t be influenced by something you know absolutely nothing about.
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Pup7
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THAT was my point.
If you have no point of reference, it will “go right over your head”.
That’s why that expression exists.
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Jump4Joy
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In adult books or movies, I can see the negatives of being true to yourself to a fault
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Alex337
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So I hear this accusation a lot but Star Wars always seemed to be about fighting fascism. Stormtroopers aren’t subtle. The only change seems to be that one of the main characters is black.
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Alex337
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I watched Shrek when I was younger and I admit I was a naive teen in terms of innuendo. It made rewatching it brilliantexnihilo:
Pretty hard to be influenced when you don’t understand what is supposedly influencing you.
That’s sort of the definition of influence.
Like I said, take Looney Tunes. There was a lot of political satire that went right over my head. A lot. And violence - in fact, cartoons were more violent back then than they are now (now they’re just drivel).
I used Shrek as an example because the innuendo in it is hilarious to an adult - but it was obvious in theaters that it fell on deaf ears of kids - because they simply didn’t understand it.
so many missing jokes. Same with loony toons.
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redbetta
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And the protagonist is a Mary Sue.
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Alex337
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I need to rewatch Dinosaurs! I saw it when I was tiny and just loved it for the dinosaurs, sounds like it’ll be even better now.
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Alex337
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And Luke wasn’t? Nor Annakin?
Admittedly I am more of a Trekkie than a Star Wars person but I studied it in uni for film studies and Luke is a Gary Stu as the term goes.
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redbetta
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Rey didn’t have to train as long as Luke. She knew what to do right away.
I don’t know how I feel about Annakin. You can’t really have a guy fathered by the Force himself and not have him be overpowered. But, I wouldn’t call him a Gary Stu because he is too imperfect.
I don’t know how I feel about Annakin. You can’t really have a guy fathered by the Force himself and not have him be overpowered. But, I wouldn’t call him a Gary Stu because he is too imperfect.
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Alex337
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And Luke and Annikin didn’t train to fly x wings, but could. Rey had combat training previously, unlike Luke.
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Pup7
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Be aware, though - there might be stuff you still miss because I don’t believe you’re American.
It’s like some of the old references on British television shows. I miss the joke sometimes because I don’t understand the reference. That’s not a slight - it just goes even further to show that everything is about context and some stuff is about experience, too.But yes, the show is brilliant. I watched it religiously - I was in high school when it was out - and I remember thinking, why do kids think this is hilarious? This is sheer genius.
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redbetta
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Whatever. There are other reasons why the new trilogy is SJW rubbish and I’m not patronizing it.
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