Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?

[exnihilo]

We support the KSA because we need the oil. Full stop. Energy is not a luxury to a modern nation, it is a necessity.

Yes we need oil but the US is also a very large supplier of oil herself. In fact I believe the House of Saud only produces slightly more oil than we do. Reserves of course are another issue that is hard to be certain of. The biggest single consumer of oil in the US is the US military. It burns through a ridiculous amount of oil in order to carry out wars on the other side of the world. If you remove the military’s consumption we have far less need for foreign oil.

If Anybody living in the USA says Israel should not exist because injustices were committed to form it, logically they should give their house keys to an Indian and leave for England/Spain/Germany, etc.

I think the wilderness of America being transformed into the US is a little bit different. Apparently the heathen Indians did not have any notion of property rights. There are no doubt some areas of the country where Indians were removed against their will. This was wrong. But, that was hundreds of years ago. There is nothing anyone anywhere can do to unmake the past. But supporting Israel today is essentially supporting another Trail of Tears in modern America.

 

[Hastrman]

I think the wilderness of America being transformed into the US is a little bit different. Apparently the heathen Indians did not have any notion of property rights. There are no doubt some areas of the country where Indians were removed against their will. This was wrong. But, that was hundreds of years ago. There is nothing anyone anywhere can do to unmake the past. But supporting Israel today is essentially supporting another Trail of Tears in modern America.

You actually believe the Indians had no notion of property rights? Sigh.

Most hunter-gatherers, such as the Plains Indians and probably a slight majority of the Northeastern tribes, had a very definite concept of land ownership—essentially what our law calls “usufruct” (the right to use and benefit from, but not the right to alienate, as in by selling).

The agricultural tribes, such as the Hopi? Yeah, their idea of land tenure is basically that of the Romans—ownership is absolute—except most Native Americans are matrilineal (property passes from mother to daughter rather than father to son). The major role of a Hopi or Navajo husband is tending his wife’s land.

The potlatch cultures of the Pacific Northwest have an extremely strict concept of property rights: anyone who uses a clan’s property, including their stories or artistic motifs, owes that clan money. They essentially have intellectual property/copyright laws, with no expiration dates.

And incidentally, the Trail of Tears and the Long Walk were both less than 150 years ago (so “hundreds” is an exaggeration).

But how is supporting Israel remotely comparable to the Trail of Tears? The Israelis very rarely force Palestinians to relocate, and never en masse. And that, despite the Palestinians being pretty up front about wanting to kill them—the reason the Trail of Tears is considered an atrocity is that the affected tribes were peaceful, indeed they were called “the Five Civilized Tribes”. No sane person complains that the Apache or Comanches were restricted to reservations.

 

[ciero]

You might benefit by talking to a Palestinian Christian about land not being taken away from them en mass by the Zionist Isreaelies! I believe you will get a totally different understanding of what has really happened…nit what the Isrealies and Us governments want you to think!

Just saying!

You actually believe the Indians had no notion of property rights? Sigh.

Most hunter-gatherers, such as the Plains Indians and probably a slight majority of the Northeastern tribes, had a very definite concept of land ownership—essentially what our law calls “usufruct” (the right to use and benefit from, but not the right to alienate, as in by selling).

The agricultural tribes, such as the Hopi? Yeah, their idea of land tenure is basically that of the Romans—ownership is absolute—except most Native Americans are matrilineal (property passes from mother to daughter rather than father to son). The major role of a Hopi or Navajo husband is tending his wife’s land.

The potlatch cultures of the Pacific Northwest have an extremely strict concept of property rights: anyone who uses a clan’s property, including their stories or artistic motifs, owes that clan money. They essentially have intellectual property/copyright laws, with no expiration dates.

And incidentally, the Trail of Tears and the Long Walk were both less than 150 years ago (so “hundreds” is an exaggeration).

But how is supporting Israel remotely comparable to the Trail of Tears? The Israelis very rarely force Palestinians to relocate, and never en masse. And that, despite the Palestinians being pretty up front about wanting to kill them—the reason the Trail of Tears is considered an atrocity is that the affected tribes were peaceful, indeed they were called “the Five Civilized Tribes”. No sane person complains that the Apache or Comanches were restricted to reservations.

 

[Hastrman]

You might benefit by talking to a Palestinian Christian about land not being taken away from them en mass by the Zionist Isreaelies! I believe you will get a totally different understanding of what has really happened…nit what the Isrealies and Us governments want you to think!

Just saying!

Those guys aren’t the Palestinians everyone refers to (actually, screwing things up for those Christians is my only real problem with Israel, but the Islamo-terrorist Palestinians distract attention from it).

 

[Road2Damascus]

You might benefit by talking to a Palestinian Christian about land not being taken away from them en mass by the Zionist Isreaelies! I believe you will get a totally different understanding of what has really happened…nit what the Isrealies and Us governments want you to think!

Just saying!

Interestingly, I believe Sirhan Sirhan was born a Palestinian Maronite Christian but may not have stayed that path, likewise, I don’t believe it is said he converted to Islam neither, very sad chapter in American History and this bit is off topic, so forgive me all but I was surprised to hear it.

I support the State of Israel, I do feel compassion for the Palestinian people but I do believe the Islamic fundamentalism has gotten the best of them. I have a friend from Egypt, practicing Muslim but he is dismayed at how the Palestinians think and in fact, he doesn’t care for most of the other Muslim countries at least to the East of Egypt, Israel is fine with him. We see the Fundamentalism causing trouble in Egypt, we see a dictator in Syria so indeed, Israel has more of a model government. My friend didn’t even think Mubarak was that bad. Yes, he may have had a heavy hand at times, how many dictators do?? So, I think we erred in Egypt and Christians have suffered since the Arab spring came. Islamic Fundamentalists.

 

[Seamus_L]

Bitter Harvest by Sami Hadawi, a Palestinian Christian, is a good start to understanding what has been done to the Palestinian people.

 

[trdchubi]

Did you know the name “palestine” was purposely selected by the pagan hadrian as propaganda to rid of the Bible name given to the Holy land which is Israel and Judaea?

Did you know that the name change was intended to remove Judeo Christian heritage of the Levant?

Did you know that the ancient Philistines are from the Adriatic seas and are culturally Greek? (hadrian latinize the word philistines to palestines – obviously not arab people)

Did you know that the term “palestine” was adopted by arabs to avoid the use of the Jewish name Israel and all claims to the land promise to the Jews?

And the term “palestine” in its modern day nature is synonymous to anti Israel propaganda just like the original intent of the despot emperor, hadrian.

Now do we want to use a name like “palestine” that is invented by those who hate Christ, the Bible and Israel?

Do we want to utilize terms used by the enemies of Israel who desire to accomplish nothing less than the destruction of the Jewish people?

Honestly do you think the Arab Christians under the rule of islamist authorities aka p.a. will have the freedom to practice Christianity or will they be subjected to dhimmitude like every Christian in islamist countries?

One more thing, why is it that during the 1967 six days war, the Jordanians who attack Israel became palestinians after they lost?

Just asking.

Shalom

 

[exnihilo]

You actually believe the Indians had no notion of property rights? Sigh.

I actually dont know much about Indian ideas about property. I made that comment mostly to mock the leftists hippie types who talk about how the Indians were basically environmentalist commies.

But how is supporting Israel remotely comparable to the Trail of Tears? The Israelis very rarely force Palestinians to relocate, and never en masse. And that, despite the Palestinians being pretty up front about wanting to kill them

Ah so if you just rarely and one at a time force people to give up their land to you it is OK? If you spread out over a year a racist seizure of property then it is fine.

You mention the Palestinians wanting to kill the Israelis. Well that is not for no reason. It is because the Israelis moved in and used terrorism to seize the land. Once they controlled the land they used terrorism, under the cover of law, to expel the Palestinians.

the reason the Trail of Tears is considered an atrocity is that the affected tribes were peaceful, indeed they were called “the Five Civilized Tribes”. No sane person complains that the Apache or Comanches were restricted to reservations.

I agree on that.

Speaking of the Civilized Tribes It is a little known fact that the last Confederate General to surrender was a Cherokee, Stand Watie. I’m sure it is an even more little known fact that the Cherokee nation took the side of the CSA.

We see the Fundamentalism causing trouble in Egypt, we see a dictator in Syria so indeed, Israel has more of a model government. My friend didn’t even think Mubarak was that bad. Yes, he may have had a heavy hand at times, how many dictators do?? So, I think we erred in Egypt and Christians have suffered since the Arab spring came. Islamic Fundamentalists.

Egypt overthrew a Western puppet dictator. He was a dictator during his entire rule. But the government and its court press called him president when he was in favor. When the uprising came suddenly the government and its court press learned he was really a brutal dictator. Nothing had changed in Egypt of course. They just saw the writing on the wall so they changed their tune. It is the same thing that happened with Saddam Hussein or even Qaddafi who had regained favor with the West.

Syria has a president who is called dictator because the US government might want to replace him with a loyal puppet. In fact modern democracies typically produce dictators as president. Hitler was elected president under the Weimar Constitution which was drawn up by academics who considered it the greatest democratic constitution created. The US president has wide ranging autocratic powers. He could easily be called a dictator. The natural tendency is for rule by one. Democracy corrodes into the corrupt form of kingship which is tyranny.

The language of ‘we erred’ is of interest to me. What right do we have to determine the government and fate of foreign nations?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well that is US propaganda. Maybe it is true. Maybe it is not. But what was the justification for the embargo? It was that Iraq invaded Kuwait for which they might have had justification. You are free to think American politicians had a particular insight into the truth of the matter. Personally given their universal incompetence I doubt it. It wasn’t just the U.S. Practically the whole world saw it the same way. Remember, the participants included participation from countries as diverse as Egypt and Japan. And what justification did Saddam have for invading Kuwait? Defend your guy now.

He was a terrible person, like most politicians including those in the US. He killed people. We kill people. We are always justified though of course. And you see no difference? How many U.S. politicians killed millions? How many have “rape rooms”. How many dump their opponents into acid baths?

The media lied about Stalin *because * the US was partnered with him. **No. It was because there were a lot of sympathizers with communism in the media. There were opposing views, of course. You do know Harry Hopkins was a Soviet agent, don’t you? And he wasn’t the only one. Indisputably there were ideological “fellow travelers” in the government. But none of that was because of any “alliance”. Remember, Stalin was on Hitler’s side until Hitler invaded Russia. **

And the British created countries like Iraq, which is composed of many ethnicities - leading to tension and strife, and gave Arabia to the House of Saud. But the point isn’t what happens but the fact that racial thinking is condemned by society and our government. If it is wrong then it should be wrong everywhere and always. I didn’t make that rule up or even defend it. But those who do need to provide an answer for why it is OK sometimes to create racial homelands. Why does our government investigate its own citizens who want racial homelands for its people while giving billions of those same citizen’s money to a country that exists for just that reason? For the same reason it went to war against the Confederate States. To keep the country intact.

I’m not saying Christians are always and everywhere in Muslim lands treated well. But if you look at it from their perspective the US interferes through politics and war in all of their countries. What is it when we launch missiles from the sea and kill people in aspirin factories we claim are terrorist targets? When we do it is peace keeping. When they do it is terrorism. Ah, yes. Blaming the victim.

Iran is not that bad - though they get weary of US instigated rebellions and puppets.
**Iran has had a very long time to get over it. They don’t hate the U.S. because of that. They had us because we’re “infidels” and because we stand in the way of their dreams of a new 'Persian hegemony" in the Middle East. We once controlled the Philippines, Germany and Japan, but they all got past it. **

An inverted ‘T’: ﬩

Plus sign

 

[exnihilo]

It wasn’t just the U.S. Practically the whole world saw it the same way. Remember, the participants included participation from countries as diverse as Egypt and Japan. And what justification did Saddam have for invading Kuwait? Defend your guy now.

The whole world? And how do you know that? Oh, cause the UN got involved. The UN exists to give legitimacy to the US’s illegal actions. The whole world agrees that Israel is a rogue nation but the US uses its veto power to cancel any actions against Israel.

Egypt was a puppet government. We bought the leader off with a few billion each year. Japan has US troops occupying it and knows first hand the wrath of the US.

The justification was stealing of oil through slant drilling as I recall. He is not and was not my boy.

And you see no difference? How many U.S. politicians killed millions? How many have “rape rooms”. How many dump their opponents into acid baths?

So it is a numbers game? And millions is the cut off line? As I said our Secretary of State said half a million dead Iraqi children was cool with her. So she is at least half as bad as Saddam. But the US did kill over 2 million Vietnamese.

We have rape rooms. There are rape rooms in some police precincts. I’m reminded of the man who was sodomized by NYC police. We also have torture rooms. We admit to water boarding people. We also operate under secrecy. People claim the US does far worse and I have every reason to believe that since they do admittedly torture people and do admittedly hide the truth.

No. It was because there were a lot of sympathizers with communism in the media. There were opposing views, of course. You do know Harry Hopkins was a Soviet agent, don’t you? And he wasn’t the only one. Indisputably there were ideological “fellow travelers” in the government. But none of that was because of any “alliance”. Remember, Stalin was on Hitler’s side until Hitler invaded Russia.

I figure you’re a conservative and here you are defending the ‘liberal’ media. The media gives cover to the US government. They ask the wrong questions. You dont get exclusive interviews or a seat at a press conference unless you are friendly to the government.

Yes, Stalin was on Hitlers side. That is what is so amazing about your assertion that hte media didn’t know. They certainly knew that. They certainly knew that just a few weeks after Hitler invaded Poland Stalin did. We had to go to war with Germany because they invaded Poland. And we had had to partner with the Soviets… who did the same thing. The press like the American people aren’t very good at logic.

For the same reason it went to war against the Confederate States. To keep the country intact.

If there is a mandate that government’s keep themselves in tact and never allow separation then the American Revolution was a bad thing. If this mandate exists then Hussein was not wrong in making war on rebels in his country. But most Americans celebrate Independence Day while condemning Hussein. Again, a logic failure.

Ah, yes. Blaming the victim.

Nope. I’m saying that a fair view of all the facts gives one a different perspective.

Iran has had a very long time to get over it. They don’t hate the U.S. because of that. They had us because we’re “infidels” and because we stand in the way of their dreams of a new 'Persian hegemony" in the Middle East. We once controlled the Philippines, Germany and Japan, but they all got past it.

Ever since the puppet Shah was overthrown the US has been agitating against Iran. They haven’t gotten over it because the US has not stopped trying to interfere. And how do you know so much about the Iranian people? I dont claim to myself. My opinions are based on the common knowledge that people dont like to have puppet governments and be constantly threatened with war. The Muslims I’ve interacted with have all been peaceful people. That does not mean there aren’t others. When you start doing a body count of ‘terrorism’ vs US war body counts the US far surpasses the terrorists.

We still have military bases in all of those countries. When a foreign power has a military in a country and that country does not have its own military is there any way to say those people are free? If we had foreign military occupying our country would we be free?

This whole conversation has me thinking of removing the log from our own eye. I see one standard applied to the US and another applied to the world.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The whole world? And how do you know that? Oh, cause the UN got involved. The UN exists to give legitimacy to the US’s illegal actions. The whole world agrees that Israel is a rogue nation but the US uses its veto power to cancel any actions against Israel. Most nations recognize Israel. The UN is hardly a U.S. puppet.

Egypt was a puppet government. We bought the leader off with a few billion each year. Japan has US troops occupying it and knows first hand the wrath of the US. ** If you believe Japan played a role in the Gulf War because it “has U.S. troops occupying it”, then you understand neither what “occupation” is nor Japan itself.**

The justification was stealing of oil through slant drilling as I recall. He is not and was not my boy. I think he is your boy. That’s what Saddam said about slant drilling, which was his excuse to invade Kuwait. No credible source has ever verified Saddam’s claim.

So it is a numbers game? And millions is the cut off line? As I said our Secretary of State said half a million dead Iraqi children was cool with her. So she is at least half as bad as Saddam. But the US did kill over 2 million Vietnamese. Already discussed as to Iraq. That was Saddam’s doing, not ours. Vietnam has nothing to do with the topic. Start a new thread if you want to argue that one.

We have rape rooms. There are rape rooms in some police precincts. I’m reminded of the man who was sodomized by NYC police. We also have torture rooms. We admit to water boarding people. We also operate under secrecy. People claim the US does far worse and I have every reason to believe that since they do admittedly torture people and do admittedly hide the truth. What people claim the U.S. does “far worse”. You do know, I’m sure, that U.S. elite troops undergo waterboarding as part of their training. But they certainly do not undergo being dissolved in acid, as Saddam was given to doing. What police precincts have rape rooms? Please let us know exactly which ones so we can research that.

I figure you’re a conservative and here you are defending the ‘liberal’ media. The media gives cover to the US government. They ask the wrong questions. You dont get exclusive interviews or a seat at a press conference unless you are friendly to the government. Some would call me a conservative. Some would call me a liberal.

Yes, Stalin was on Hitlers side. That is what is so amazing about your assertion that hte media didn’t know. They certainly knew that. They certainly knew that just a few weeks after Hitler invaded Poland Stalin did. We had to go to war with Germany because they invaded Poland. And we had had to partner with the Soviets… who did the same thing. The press like the American people aren’t very good at logic.** The media knew about the Ribbentrop/Molotov pace. They knew about the German invasion of Poland, then of the USSR. Never did I say they didn’t. What is true, however, is that the far left generally opposed serious opposition to Hitler until the Soviet Union itself was invaded.**

If there is a mandate that government’s keep themselves in tact and never allow separation then the American Revolution was a bad thing. If this mandate exists then Hussein was not wrong in making war on rebels in his country. But most Americans celebrate Independence Day while condemning Hussein. Again, a logic failure. The American Revolution was a good thing, and a successful thing, unlike some secessions. But England did resist it, you know. Which of the Founding Fathers do you equate with Saddam Hussein?

Ever since the puppet Shah was overthrown the US has been agitating against Iran. They haven’t gotten over it because the US has not stopped trying to interfere. And how do you know so much about the Iranian people? I dont claim to myself. My opinions are based on the common knowledge that people dont like to have puppet governments and be constantly threatened with war. The Muslims I’ve interacted with have all been peaceful people. That does not mean there aren’t others. When you start doing a body count of ‘terrorism’ vs US war body counts the US far surpasses the terrorists. ** The Iranian peoples’ opposition to the Mullocracy is well known and well publicized. If, however, you choose to ignore that as misguided, which evidently you do, then nothing anybody ever says, publishes or documents will persuade you otherwise.**

We still have military bases in all of those countries. When a foreign power has a military in a country and that country does not have its own military is there any way to say those people are free? If we had foreign military occupying our country would we be free? Again, please define “occupation”, and let us know which countries, in which we have a military presence, have asked us to leave. You might recall that the Philippines government asked us to abandon Subic Bay, and we did exactly that. And in what countries, exactly, does the U.S. have a military presence where the host country has no military at all? Please list them.

This whole conversation has me thinking of removing the log from our own eye. I see one standard applied to the US and another applied to the world.

If, as seems to be the case, you have no greater regard for the U.S. than you do for Saddam Hussein or the Mullocracy in Iran, then I think it likely you will blame all clashes in which the U.S. has ever been involved, on the U.S., and will find a way to justify that opinion in your own mind. It might remove a very serious log from your eye if you traveled to Iran and protested the very first government murder you witnessed. Since you wish so fervently to see “all sides”, you will surely do that at your first opportunity. Then you will really know.

 

[exnihilo]

Ridgerunner, it would be pointless to continue because you seem to think the US is a holy nation. I dont. You see things it does always in a positive light. I used to be like you. So it might be the case that I approach everything always looking and seeing the worst.

But I do have a defense for my position and that is that the power to rule people tends to corrupt. In order for the most massive government in the history of the world to not be corrupt it would have to be exceptional. You apparently believe that it is. I do not. I’d point to any number of social metrics which show a diseased and depressed culture. If that society is exceptional it is in a satanic way, not a holy way. So while I’m aware of all the justifications that make the US right in all that it does I simply dont believe them nor could I.

 

[jerry_joseph]

15% of the palestinians are christians. Also there are about 15 million Arab christians in this world.We should consider that fact also.

Palestinian leaders are more friendly with christians. Eg:Yasser Arafath… Who often attended church prayers during christian festivals such as easter and christmas.

Pray to God for establishing peace in Holy Land.

 

[GEddie]

15% of the palestinians are christians. Also there are about 15 million Arab christians in this world.We should consider that fact also.

Palestinian leaders are more friendly with christians. Eg:Yasser Arafath… Who often attended church prayers during christian festivals such as easter and christmas.

Pray to God for establishing peace in Holy Land.

No one is denying that there are Arab Christians; however, as the vast majority of the people are Muslim, any new Palestine State will be Muslim.

Christians are more likely to be protected in Israel than in a Muslim state. Jewish society has never made it a goal to force others to convert or submit to Judaism.

Not to mention that the holy sites at the core of Christendom would likely become mosques in an Islamic state, as happened to Santa Sophia, the Cenaculum, the mount of the Ascension, etc.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Neildown]

What a naive view of history! I do not deney that the Jews were treated badly by the Nazis in Europe…

Get rid of the Zionist state of Israel…I have nothing against the Jewish people…just their treatment of their fellow Semtic people the Arabs of Palestine including the indigenous Christians of Palestine!!!

No offense, but you obviously haven’t fully recognized the fact that 6 million Jews were exterminated by the Nazis in WWII… “treated badly” is an ultra-face-smack-boot-to-the-head understatement.

As of your second statement. Israel is the only place in the middle east where you don’t necessarily have to wear a bullet-proof vest while walking in public. I have also not heard any complaints from any of the main religious groups in Israel as compared with any others in the middle east.

 

[Roman_Catechism]

We should support both; a compromise. There is enough room for all faiths in the nation of Israel.

 

[cmforte]

We should support both; a compromise. There is enough room for all faiths in the nation of Israel.

-Chris

 

[chosen_people]

15% of the palestinians are christians. Also there are about 15 million Arab christians in this world.We should consider that fact also.

Palestinian leaders are more friendly with christians. Eg:Yasser Arafath… Who often attended church prayers during christian festivals such as easter and christmas.

Pray to God for establishing peace in Holy Land.

Well actually Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O virtually took over southern Lebanon in the mid 70’s. With Syrian backing, they carried out a campaign of murder, torture and rape against the Christian population. Fortunately for the Christians of south Lebanon, the Jewish State came to their rescue, driving out Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O. From a personal point of view, I did five reserve army tours, giving medical assistance and physical protection to the Christians of south Lebanon between 1982 - 1985.

Brigitte Gabriel, an Arab Lebanese Christian, is a survivor of this time. I have included a link to a short video where she describes some personal experiences:

youtube.com/watch?v=mn-yq6By82E

As a youth I often visited the town of Bethlehem. Under Israeli control, the town and its majority Christian population prospered. After being turned over to the Palestinian Authority in the framework of the Oslo peace accords, the Christians were persecuted and many left. Today they make up a small minority of the population of Bethlehem.

Neighboring Beit Jalla, made up of Christians, was used by Arafat as a base for shooting and sniping at Israelis, thus endangering the Christians living there (a tactic he used frequently in Lebanon - here again we see that the purpose of any “peace” agreement with Israel is to use any land gained as a base to attack Israel).

In security cases involving radical Moslem fundamentalists brought before me, the evidence frequently includes incidents of “excursions” by these same groups to places with relatively large Christian populations, like Nazareth, in attempts to torment Christians in various ways.

Less than a hundred meters from my courtroom window, stands a Russian Orthodox Church. My family fled the religious and political antisemitism of the Russian pogroms in the 19th Century. Today, four generations later, it is my job to help ensure that all people of all religions may freely worship and practice their religion. For the first time, under the rule of the Jewish State of Israel, all people have access to all their religious sites and all people may engage in their religious beliefs without fear.

That is not to say, that any of this will ever change those who have a deep dislike of the Jews. (see link)
jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=231998

However, no matter what, we Jews will keep on doing what we have been doing for more than three thousand years, sticking to our eternal covenant. In the end, love us or hate us, no matter what, we will always be a country of democratic and Jewish values.

 

[colmywaykurtz]

Well actually Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O virtually took over southern Lebanon in the mid 70’s. With Syrian backing, they carried out a campaign of murder, torture and rape against the Christian population. Fortunately for the Christians of south Lebanon, the Jewish State came to their rescue, driving out Yasser Arafat and the P.L.O. From a personal point of view, I did five reserve army tours, giving medical assistance and physical protection to the Christians of south Lebanon between 1982 - 1985.

Brigitte Gabriel, an Arab Lebanese Christian, is a survivor of this time. I have included a link to a short video where she describes some personal experiences:

youtube.com/watch?v=mn-yq6By82E

As a youth I often visited the town of Bethlehem. Under Israeli control, the town and its majority Christian population prospered. After being turned over to the Palestinian Authority in the framework of the Oslo peace accords, the Christians were persecuted and many left. Today they make up a small minority of the population of Bethlehem.

Neighboring Beit Jalla, made up of Christians, was used by Arafat as a base for shooting and sniping at Israelis, thus endangering the Christians living there (a tactic he used frequently in Lebanon - here again we see that the purpose of any “peace” agreement with Israel is to use any land gained as a base to attack Israel).

In security cases involving radical Moslem fundamentalists brought before me, the evidence frequently includes incidents of “excursions” by these same groups to places with relatively large Christian populations, like Nazareth, in attempts to torment Christians in various ways.

Less than a hundred meters from my courtroom window, stands a Russian Orthodox Church. My family fled the religious and political antisemitism of the Russian pogroms in the 19th Century. Today, four generations later, it is my job to help ensure that all people of all religions may freely worship and practice their religion. For the first time, under the rule of the Jewish State of Israel, all people have access to all their religious sites and all people may engage in their religious beliefs without fear.

That is not to say, that any of this will ever change those who have a deep dislike of the Jews. (see link)
jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=231998

However, no matter what, we Jews will keep on doing what we have been doing for more than three thousand years, sticking to our eternal covenant. In the end, love us or hate us, no matter what, we will always be a country of democratic and Jewish values.

I believe what you say here, and it makes some points I’ve been trying to make in this discussion in a far better way than I ever could.

chosen people, since you are posting in a Christian forum, I feel comfortable asking this. What do you think of the Christian gospel?

 

[colmywaykurtz]

No one is denying that there are Arab Christians; however, as the vast majority of the people are Muslim, any new Palestine State will be Muslim.

Christians are more likely to be protected in Israel than in a Muslim state. Jewish society has never made it a goal to force others to convert or submit to Judaism.

Not to mention that the holy sites at the core of Christendom would likely become mosques in an Islamic state, as happened to Santa Sophia, the Cenaculum, the mount of the Ascension, etc.

ICXC NIKA

I think Palestinian Christians should be given the option of forming a third state, one scrupulously given a border with Israel.

Yes, a Three-State solution would be the way to go.