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diggerdomer
Guest
So Celtic FC, given the choice, would you say the Church is a “society of saints” or a “school for sinners”?
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JACQUE_D
Guest
WOW mate thats a bit too much. Most of us Catholics were born and raised Catholic. Taught by the nuns, lived and breathed the Church all our lives. You should take it easy mate. There are some huge realities in this world and a lot of people don’t need nasty comments like that. People don’t need to be chased from their Catholic life or told to become mere pagans for the sakes of ‘holier than thou’ people like you. Your attitude will only cause couples to be sneaky and secrative instesd of enquiring about the correct way, or they will simply leave the Church, which would be a pity just because of meanies like you.Bring it on.
Mother of 6.
Jacque in NewZealand.
:dts::nunchuk:
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phantasm
Guest
In the "olden days " Catholic families had as many kids as possible. Today, families are content with their 2 or 3 children.
That’s called a clue that artificial birth control is being used by many.
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phantasm
Guest
The Church would go broke in a month if this happened and most parishes would close in America and Canada.
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Black_Dog
Guest
I’m just learning about Catholicism. Last night the priest was talking about a bloke who deliberately flouted the rules of his church. Not only did they throw him out but they crucified him too 
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Tsuwano
Guest
Jesus himself said he came for the sake of sinners. If Jesus could dine and associate with sinners, then how can the Church close her doors to those who fall from the grace of God. The Church is often the only light available to those who live in darkness. What a hopeless and terrifying world it would be if the Church kept its light only for the righteous! Indeed, such action would no longer make those within the Church righteous. Instead, they would be self-righteous.
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Tsuwano
Guest
In which parable did Jesus describe God as a marine drill instructor who demands his erring recruits to drop down and give him fifty or run another three miles? I’m only aware of the parables that describe God as a loving father who, after giving is wayward son all the riches he has, still sits and watches for his return with a loving and hope filled heart, or as a shepherd who is willing to leave all of his sheep to seek out the one that is lost. The Church doesn’t act like a drill instructor because it attempts to live in the light and love of Jesus and is guided by the Holy Spirit. I would not say you can “safely” ignore some Catholic teaching, but the Church will always assure you that you are beloved of God and his grace is always available to you. Sorry, but in the view of the Church, God’s love trumps every other card. As for who is worthy of the punishments of hell, probably every person the Church has ever honored as a saint would claim that they are worthy of such punishment . . . but for the mercy and love of God.
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SteveGC
Guest
And rest assured (or for some of you, rest uneasily)…The Church isn’t going anywhere…“broke” or not. It’s not a business that files Chapter 11 when the money runs out. She (with the Spirit) always will find a way. She’s not swayed by possible loss of donations as a reason to avoid proclaiming the truth. If contraception (or any other potential mortal sin) is not being explicitly and publicly spoken out against in the homily, it has nothing to do with loss of income. Recognize that the Church has to “shepherd” the flock, feed and tend the sheep. No good shepherd does this by putting on a wolf costume and scaring them into staying within the flock…they do it how? By feeding them and tending to them. Other sheep are also responsible for showing the wayward ones where the flock is, so they don’t lose their way. If certain ones don’t accept the food, the care, or the example of the rest of the flock, that’s on them.
God Bless
God Bless
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Lucky7
Guest
I’m confused…if you consider them the true teachings, why are you a former Catholic, now atheist?
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MarieCB
Guest
I’ve been called Godless, a heretic, and a number of other delightful things lately.This was my point exactly and I got shot down by a few posters and of course, I was called Godless.
It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one who can see this reality.
However, I don’t call myself an atheist. In general, calling yourself an atheist would strongly suggest that you don’t believe in God. That’s that whole a- (without) -theist (believing in God). 
I should make it clear, by the way, that I think NFP can be great for people who a) can handle having sex on a schedule completely opposite to the woman’s natural cycle, and b) can be happy with an “oops” caused by stress, a couple of long-lived sperm, medication, etc, and c) are both on the same page. I would guess that the overwhelming majority of people - single women, couples, whatever - aren’t there.
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bquinnan
Guest
You identify yourself as an atheist – doesn’t that make you godless by definition, at least as far as you are concerned? Are you saying you have a god?This was my point exactly and I got shot down by a few posters and of course, I was called Godless.
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marymol
Guest
An area of hope in this difficult area of learning to be more trusting in our Lord and His Church may be more lay person involvement through Family Apostolate ministries (a nonspecific term that encomapss any varieties of help ) and bring together families in the parish , focusing on areas that need help ; many families that are struggling with interpersonal issues may be surprised to find how infidelity in this one area may be affecting all other areas too and how struggles to become more faithful here would help in all other areas as well .
Would the churches be affected in finanacial realm by helping couples in this area ?
Very unlikely , since learning to be less selfish is what would also help families to be more generous .
The statistics that quote most persons as contracepting have been disputed many times .
There are statistics that talk about mental helath issues affecting very many ( as high as 20 % !) of teens ; it would be good to help families to focus on all of the preventive strategies in this area too and what could be healthier for true peace of mind than the capacity to trust - and the willingness that come with it , to follow Church guidelines that alone uphold sacredness in marriage !
Peace !
Would the churches be affected in finanacial realm by helping couples in this area ?
Very unlikely , since learning to be less selfish is what would also help families to be more generous .
The statistics that quote most persons as contracepting have been disputed many times .
There are statistics that talk about mental helath issues affecting very many ( as high as 20 % !) of teens ; it would be good to help families to focus on all of the preventive strategies in this area too and what could be healthier for true peace of mind than the capacity to trust - and the willingness that come with it , to follow Church guidelines that alone uphold sacredness in marriage !
Peace !
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phantasm
Guest
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phantasm
Guest
Yes.
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Caesar517
Guest
Not exactly. The Church teaches that it’s wrong to violate their properly formed conscience. There are many people who have done terrible and evil things by following their conscience.
When the conscience is properly formed, there is no gray area.
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diggerdomer
Guest
CCC 1782: Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. “He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters.”
I agree the formation of conscience is essential. Just note that in the above para and following, the CCC refers simply to “conscience.”
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phantasm
Guest
A properly formed conscience. It is all explained, crystal clear in your Catechism.
If I had a dime for everytime I came across a Catholic who failed to read the** entire** section in the Catechism that deals with conscience, I’d have quite a few dimes.
I’m not a Catholic anymore, so I could care less that what you think is completely wrong, but I am certainly going to point it out to you. When I was a practicing Catholic, your stance would have driven me nuts!
Want proof?
Search the Catechism, it’s all there…
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Sillara
Guest
Yes, but we are required to obey. So what it boils down to is that the individual conscience can impose tighter restrictions than those of the Church, but not looser ones.
For example, the Church teaches that periodic abstinence is acceptable for spacing children. Suppose I feel that it is wrong to put any limit on the times God chooses to bless me with a child. Then, though the Church teaches that periodic abstinence is acceptable, my conscience trumps in this case. However, if I wanted to, say, obtain an abortion because “my conscience is clear” on the matter, I would be doing wrong.
Full Disclosure: I am a Catholic convert; my husband is, too. We follow the Church’s teachings on birth control, and we have the five children to prove it. Our children are 10, 8, 6, almost 2, and 3 months. We converted to Catholicism between babies #3 and #4.
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Caesar517
Guest
1782 is in the section regarding judgments of conscience. 1783 is from the following section regarding formation of conscience.
This section states that if we are to use our conscience for moral judgments, our conscience must be properly formed.
In a later section regarding erroneous judgment:
This clearly says that we are to follow our conscience, but that we can err by doing so if our conscience is in ignorance.
This clearly states that if we do not do everything we can to properly form our conscience, we can indeed sin by following it.
In summary:
If our conscience is properly formed, we cannot sin by following it.
If our conscience is not properly formed through no fault of our own, our culpability for following an erroneous judgment of our conscience would be greatly reduced (possibly to zero).
If, however, our conscience is not properly formed through our own fault, we are culpable for the evil we may commit by following an erroneous judgment of conscience in addition to the sin of not trying to grow spiritually.
Therefore, the following statement is not accurate:
All boldfaced emphasis mine. Source for CCC quotes: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P5Z.HTM
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
In England & Wales - I don’t know about Scotland - three Catholics out of four don’t go to Mass on Sundays. And contraception is widely used. Kick out the users of IUDs & condoms - & there would be very few pews with anyone to warm them. Some dioceses are strapped for cash as it is; kick out the nasty people who provide the dosh needed to keep them going, & you cut off your source of income. Somehow, I don’t see the Church doing that, even if the dosh has been supplied by active homosexuals, heretics, feminists, & others too horrible to contemplate who are not beloved by “true Catholics” 
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