Should Christians support Palestine?

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Publisher said:
It was through the Jews that all the world would be blessed…it was through the Jews that mankind would see salvation…“in the last days I will pour out my Spirit up all flesh…”…through Christ we have been grafted into the covenant…we who have put on Christ are the true circumcision…the circumcision of the heart…He has called His people from every nation, kindred, tongue and people…TO BE THE PEOPLE OF GOD…a holy nation a royal priesthood…no longer would God’s people be bound by geographic location…but citizens of the City who’s Builder and Maker is God.

Palestinian Christians suffer at the hands of Jews as well as Muslims…yet the voices decrying the atrocities to our brethren by Jews are strangely absent.
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I hope you don’t think I am disagreeing here… I was just pointing out that God’s chosen people are not attached to real estate… As in Israel can do no wrong… sure they can and have. I also know that our Christian brethren in that area have suffered way too much.
 
murtad said:
Christians should not be supporting Palestine…
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Hi Murtad,

Sorry to disagree.

If Israel is willing to give some land up for Palestine for the sake of peace, we should embrace it, and be thankful to Israel.

Christians should support the path for peace. Blessed are the peacemakers.
 
Right now, it’s clear that Israel learned well from their previous oppressors, and they are repeating their lessons on the heads of all non-Jews living in the region of Israel, including areas that they don’t even officially control.

Did you know that Palestinians (Christians and Muslims) are not allowed to buy houses in their own cities? They have to rent from Jews, even if they have enough money to buy a house - I’m not talking about in Jerusalem, or even in Israel - this is outside the walls, in the area that was supposedly given to Palestine. A friend of mine just returned from there a couple of days ago, and she says it’s really awful. They also are not allowed to own their own businesses; they have to work for the Jews, and the Jews make it almost impossible for them to be able to get to work in the mornings, by setting up roadblocks and stopping them every few miles or so. It takes 12 hours to travel 10 miles by car; if they start work at 8:00 am, they have to leave the house at 8:00 pm the night before, or else they will be fired for being late.

I used to be pro-Zionist, but not anymore. I can see that the Jews are just as bad as everyone else.
 
jmcrae said:
Right now, it’s clear that Israel learned well from their previous oppressors, and they are repeating their lessons on the heads of all non-Jews living in the region of Israel, including areas that they don’t even officially control.

Did you know that Palestinians (Christians and Muslims) are not allowed to buy houses in their own cities? They have to rent from Jews, even if they have enough money to buy a house - I’m not talking about in Jerusalem, or even in Israel - this is outside the walls, in the area that was supposedly given to Palestine. A friend of mine just returned from there a couple of days ago, and she says it’s really awful. They also are not allowed to own their own businesses; they have to work for the Jews, and the Jews make it almost impossible for them to be able to get to work in the mornings, by setting up roadblocks and stopping them every few miles or so. It takes 12 hours to travel 10 miles by car; if they start work at 8:00 am, they have to leave the house at 8:00 pm the night before, or else they will be fired for being late.

I used to be pro-Zionist, but not anymore. I can see that the Jews are just as bad as everyone else.
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Add to that Forbidden Roads, Illegal (by International Law) Jewish Settlements, and the fact that in those roadblocks Palestinian Christians can be forbidden to pass through on the whim of the soldiers running the roadblock–one day you can pass; the next day you cannot–for no good reason.

We tend to look at Israel as a religious country and feel that because of this we share something in common with them. But this is not true–religious Jews are a minority in Israel.

Israelis are just as bad as everyone else. And when they are bad, they do not need anyone justifying their badness, any more than we need that.
 
Yes they should be supported.

Why, because they are lied to by saying that land they live in is called “Palestine”, and has been called that since Abraham. No where in scripture is that land called “Palestine.” God in the bible is called the God of ISRAEL, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob(ISRAEL).

They are lied to saying they are descendants from the original Palestinans going through Ishamel. What? Abraham was a Chaldean and God brought him into the land of Canaan. Ishmaels mother was an Egyptian. Read the name of the clans in Genesis that lived in Canaan, you will not find any “Palestinians”.

I can see the world following this lie, but scripture reading Christians?

Looking at recent history, wasnt it the Israelis who were called palestians first? Wasnt the Jerusalem Post called the Palestine Post first? There have been Arabs prior to the founding of the PLO stating to the UN and other councils that the name Palestine is a Zionist creation, and even staing there never was no country named Palestine!

The Palestinian charter calls for the total elimination of the Jews. So why do some Christians that live there have to call them selves “Palestinian” christians. Dont they know what the PLO is set out to do?

Again, scripture reading christians should be supporting these people to first, get them past this lie.

Google Walid Shoebat.
 
Christians should stand up against social injustice where ever they find it.
Christians should stand up for the dignity of ALL human life no matter what creed or colour. Christians should speak out against violence wherever it exists.

Social justice cannot be attained through violence. Violence only destroys what it intends to create.

Pope John Paul II
 
JoyfulOne said:
Add to that Forbidden Roads, Illegal (by International Law) Jewish Settlements, and the fact that in those roadblocks Palestinian Christians can be forbidden to pass through on the whim of the soldiers running the roadblock–one day you can pass; the next day you cannot–for no good reason.

We tend to look at Israel as a religious country and feel that because of this we share something in common with them. But this is not true–religious Jews are a minority in Israel.

Israelis are just as bad as everyone else. And when they are bad, they do not need anyone justifying their badness, any more than we need that.
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Hamas and Hizbellah have kidnapped Israeli soldiers. Under UN rules this is considered a WAR CRIME. Yet, these groups want to negotiate their release for ALL PLO prisoners. One of these prisoners Israel holds is a terroist who killed a family and shot a 5 year old girls father in front of her, so that would be the last thing this little girl would see before he smashed her head in with a rifle. NOW these groups are stating again that more Israeli soldiers will be abducted, and what is the UN doing about this? Nada.
 
JoyfulOne said:
Well, bear in mind that not all Palestinians are part of Hamas or Fatah.
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I know there are “Palestinian”-American immigrants who live in the U.S.A. and hold U.S. citizenship. They are very decent people and certainly not the suicide bombers as they are not part of both terrorist organisations Hamas and Fatah that glorify suicide attacks as martyrdom. It is these Arabic-speaking people who I call good people.

The “Palestinians” living in Israel or under PA ruled territory should not behave anti-Christian by demanding a seperate state which is against the command of the Lord: Give unto Caesar what belongs to him. A Christian should accept the current autonomy offer given to the PA under the 1993 Oslo Accords. By refusing is rejecting our Lord’s command!

If West Bank and Gaza Strip remain within Israel, this will ensure human rights and democracy for both ethnic and religious minorities. Else, can you imagine a new independent state of Palestine ruled by Hamas that implements the capital punishment (ie death penalty) for adultery and apostasy as required by Sharia!? That’s un Christian and savage state-sanctioned murder. Israel is 99% compliant with Human Rights and Catholic Canon Law as it has abolished death penalty and replaced it with life imprisonment. Even the murderer of late Israeli PM Yishaq Rabin was not executed but sentenced to life in jail.

The Cathecism of Catholic Church (CCC) only allows death penalty as a last resort and capital punishment for trivial “crimes” such as apostasy (ie renouncing Islam) is inhumane.

I believe we, Catholics must write to our local Bishops to be active in evangelism with Muslims over Hindus or Buddhists. That’s because Hindus and Buddhists are not a threat to Christians but its Muslims who will establish Eurabia. I have told mine already so go on tell yours 😃

The leader of Catholic archdiocese of Kuala Lumpur, Most Rev. Murphy Pakiam told a press conference that Christians should use their votes to fight PAS if it intends to establish an Islamic State. Click on the link to read that very nice news article!

Quranic injunction given by Allah advocates Muslim supremacy. That’s why many Muslim/Arab States (except the new Iraq and Turkey) practise racism towards other cultures.
 
2shelbys said:
This is a common misconception. God does not have a chosen “nation”. He has a chosen people and at the time those words were first uttered there was not merely one Jewish people nor one “Israel”. I have struggled with this misconception for some time because, as a Catholic, I have a real problem with referring to a people who do not accept the son of God and who follow teachings passed down from the Pharisees, as God’s chosen people. We all know how Jesus felt about the Pharisees. The modern State of Israel has pretty much nothing to do with the Jews who followed the son of God and you would have a very hard time convincing me that they are God’s “chosen nation”.
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Isaiah66:7-11
Before she goes into labor, she gives birth;
before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.
Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a COUNRTY be born in a day
or a NATION be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is ZION in labor
than she gives birth to her children.
“Do I bring the moment of birth
and not bring delivery?” says your God.
“Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her,
all you who love her;
rejoice greatly with her,
all you who mourn over her.
For you all will nurse and be satisfied
at her comforting breasts;
you will drink deeply
and delight in her overflowing abundance.”

What happened shortly after the jews were liberated from Nazi furnaces?

How are these Jews doing in this land 50+ years later.

Go to Google Earth and look at the land of Israel, and compare how they worked the land compared to Gaza, the West Bank, or any other nation surrounding it.

Yes, most are brought back and living there in unbelief, but in the future they will be so hated and trodded upon by the nations, they will have no option but to call on the name of the Lord.
 
Lev23 said:
Yes they should be supported.

Why, because they are lied to by saying that land they live in is called “Palestine”, and has been called that since Abraham. No where in scripture is that land called “Palestine.” God in the bible is called the God of ISRAEL, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob(ISRAEL).

They are lied to saying they are descendants from the original Palestinans going through Ishamel. What? Abraham was a Chaldean and God brought him into the land of Canaan. Ishmaels mother was an Egyptian. Read the name of the clans in Genesis that lived in Canaan, you will not find any “Palestinians”.

I can see the world following this lie, but scripture reading Christians?

Looking at recent history, wasnt it the Israelis who were called palestians first? Wasnt the Jerusalem Post called the Palestine Post first? There have been Arabs prior to the founding of the PLO stating to the UN and other councils that the name Palestine is a Zionist creation, and even staing there never was no country named Palestine!

The Palestinian charter calls for the total elimination of the Jews. So why do some Christians that live there have to call them selves “Palestinian” christians. Dont they know what the PLO is set out to do?

Again, scripture reading christians should be supporting these people to first, get them past this lie.

Google Walid Shoebat.
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The english Palestine comes from the Latin “Palaesina” which denoted being of the Philistines. During the Roman times this was multi-ethnic area with Judea holding a prominant cultural influence partly because of a somewhat advantaged relationship with Rome who had been invited by the Kingdom of Judea. The area enjoyed populations whoes ethnicity was Syrian, Persian, Phoenician, Greek and Roman and was highly Helenized.

With the Failure of the Jewish-Roman War Judea lost its Kingdom status and became a Roman Province called Syria-Palaestina. Latter the Byzantine Roman Emperors divided the entire region into three areas called: Palaestina Prima, Secunda and Tertia respectively. It is from this 6 century period that the name Palestine is derived.

Once the Kingdom of Judea the Jewish people went from have their own Kingdom within the Empire giving thema regional dominance to being a minority in a Roman province. The forced deportations also inforced this. The majority of people in the area viewed themselves as Greeks and Romans for the most part.

This area stayed Greco-Roman until the Muslims came. During this time the area steadily became more Arab. A negotiation between the Byzantine Emperor and the Muslims also lifted the ban on Jews in the area we today call Palestine and so the Jewish population in the area grew but was still at a severe disadvantage in comparison to the Arabs. This is the state that things pretty much stayed in with occasional influxes from the west during the Crusades and colonial times.

Anyway, to say the Palestine is just some modern made up term is silly the area has been known by that name for close to 1000 years. By the same token no Palestine was never a “nation” but was instead a region of many cultures and religions. Also there is no Palestinian race per se. The majority native peoples of that area are of a vast multi-ethinic heritage. Likewise Jews are not some alien force unknown to the area and then suddenly dropped in to usurp control of the region. Jews have been in Palestine for a long time even if their fortunes there have ebbed and flowed frequently through history.

In the end the issue of who does the land belong too is a foolish question. Historically speaking that region has belonged to so many people that there would be no fair way to sort it out. In the modern day only one thing is important. It belongs to Isreal now.

In terms of peace the Isrealis and Palestinians would do well to take hold of the reality of the situation. Palestinians need to face the fact that the idea of Palestine is an Imperial concept and they are in fact once again under Imperial rule. They aren’t going to defeat the Isrealis and their Arab brothers aren’t going to help as long as they can use Isreals presense as an excuse for mischief. Isreal needs to acknowledge that while the land was stolen from them at one point much of the land they control today they stole. While this is time honored method of nation building it wouldn’t hurt them to show some sympathy for those who are misplaced.

No nation today can look at Isreal today and with a strait face say they don’t deserve to exist and Isreal needs to acknowldege how they came to be.
 
rtconstant said:
The english Palestine comes from the Latin “Palaesina” which denoted being of the Philistines. During the Roman times this was multi-ethnic area with Judea holding a prominant cultural influence partly because of a somewhat advantaged relationship with Rome who had been invited by the Kingdom of Judea. The area enjoyed populations whoes ethnicity was Syrian, Persian, Phoenician, Greek and Roman and was highly Helenized.

With the Failure of the Jewish-Roman War Judea lost its Kingdom status and became a Roman Province called Syria-Palaestina. Latter the Byzantine Roman Emperors divided the entire region into three areas called: Palaestina Prima, Secunda and Tertia respectively. It is from this 6 century period that the name Palestine is derived.

Once the Kingdom of Judea the Jewish people went from have their own Kingdom within the Empire giving thema regional dominance to being a minority in a Roman province. The forced deportations also inforced this. The majority of people in the area viewed themselves as Greeks and Romans for the most part.

This area stayed Greco-Roman until the Muslims came. During this time the area steadily became more Arab. A negotiation between the Byzantine Emperor and the Muslims also lifted the ban on Jews in the area we today call Palestine and so the Jewish population in the area grew but was still at a severe disadvantage in comparison to the Arabs. This is the state that things pretty much stayed in with occasional influxes from the west during the Crusades and colonial times.

Anyway, to say the Palestine is just some modern made up term is silly the area has been known by that name for close to 1000 years. By the same token no Palestine was never a “nation” but was instead a region of many cultures and religions. Also there is no Palestinian race per se. The majority native peoples of that area are of a vast multi-ethinic heritage. Likewise Jews are not some alien force unknown to the area and then suddenly dropped in to usurp control of the region. Jews have been in Palestine for a long time even if their fortunes there have ebbed and flowed frequently through history.

In the end the issue of who does the land belong too is a foolish question. Historically speaking that region has belonged to so many people that there would be no fair way to sort it out. In the modern day only one thing is important. It belongs to Isreal now.

In terms of peace the Isrealis and Palestinians would do well to take hold of the reality of the situation. Palestinians need to face the fact that the idea of Palestine is an Imperial concept and they are in fact once again under Imperial rule. They aren’t going to defeat the Isrealis and their Arab brothers aren’t going to help as long as they can use Isreals presense as an excuse for mischief. Isreal needs to acknowledge that while the land was stolen from them at one point much of the land they control today they stole. While this is time honored method of nation building it wouldn’t hurt them to show some sympathy for those who are misplaced.

No nation today can look at Isreal today and with a strait face say they don’t deserve to exist and Isreal needs to acknowldege how they came to be.
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Dang this was a good post. 👍
 
BlestOne said:
I hope you don’t think I am disagreeing here… I was just pointing out that God’s chosen people are not attached to real estate… As in Israel can do no wrong… sure they can and have. I also know that our Christian brethren in that area have suffered way too much.
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No no no…we’re on the same page…“Israe”…“true Israel” has nothing to do with the State of Israel…the State of Israel is a secular government populated by men and women who may or may not be blood decendents of Abraham…and certainly not part of the New Covenant…they are not representative of the Chosen People…yes our brethren are suffering…but those who wish to decry the atrocities of Muslims against Christians are silent about what the citizens of Israel do to God’s Covenant People in their country…the State of Israel is not the same as the Israel of God.

On this I think we agree…
 
I say no, Christians should not support Palestine. Most Palestinians are Muslims, and hate both Israel and the U.S., Israel’s strongest supporter. The Muslim world, IMO, loathes Christianity and Judaism, to the extent it can’t be reasoned with or trusted, ever.👍
 
Yes but not only Palestine, all the other places around the world where Christians are being persecuted.
 
JoyfulOne said:
Yeah–here is a picture of the “fence”.

http://usera.imagecave.com/raynoldsk/Misc/wallnead.jpg

We have been fooled into thinking that every Palestinian is Yassar Arafat.
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Prophecy from the God of Israel

Ezekial 36:33-36
‘This is what the Soveriegn Lord says:
On the day I cleanse you from all your sins,
I will resettle the land your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt.
The desolate land will be cultivated instaed of laying desolate
in the sight of all who pass through it.
They will say: “This land that has laid waste has become
like the garden of Eden;
the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed;
now are FORTIFIED and inhabitied.”
Then the nations around you that remain will know that I the Lord have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate.
I THE LORD HAVE SPOKEN, AND WILL DO IT.’

Ezekial 38:10-11
"This is what the Soveriegn Lord says:On that day, thoughts will come into your(Gog) mind and you will devise an evil scheme. You will say, “I will invade a land of UNWALLED villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people–ALL of them living without walls and without gates and bars.”

There will be a time the worldy “peace” keepers will convince that these walls of security be taken down, and reading from prophecy, they will succeed in this effort.

Palestinian Christians need to be Christians first, and palestinian second. They need to check the scriptures of the God of Israel to see what his prophecy says.
 
manualman said:
CCM,

I don’t follow your logic. You recognize the fact that majority muslim cultures oppress the religious minorities who live there, but its OK because it is religious, no racial?? Then you object to Israel’s refusal to allow refugees to return when the obvious reason for the policy is to avoid having Israel become a majority muslim nation where Jews would be violently oppressed!?! What other means do they have to ensure their own freedom against the dhimmi status that would be the BEST they could ever hope for if they did what YOU want and allow all refugees to return?
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Yes, Muslims oppress religious minorities. That’s a religious issue, not a racial one. It doesn’t mean it’s okay, it simply means that the Jews are running a racist aparthied state and as such cannot be compared logically to Muslims enforcing religious oppression. The difference is simple, anyone can become a Muslim and in do so received the same treatment as any other Muslim. You cannot change your ethnic make-up.
The Arabs living in that region have been doing so for thousands of years, the Jews haven’t. Just because Muslims mistreat others does not make it okay to mistreat Mulisms. Those people were settled there and displaced for no reason other than stupid western guilt about the holocaust.
Israel simply doesn’t need to exist. 10 Jews leave Israel for every one that moves in, a minority of the world’s Jewish population lives there and very few Jews are interested in living there. Israel is a welfare state that totally depends on western aid to exist. As such it certainly could not even live up to it’s ill conceived reason for existing. Given the lives lost in a pointless conflict over a peice of land that has no real value the solution is simple, a handful of western states draft aid programs to move Jews from Israel into the west and establish themselves and allow the Muslims to live on their own.
I won’t defend some of the individual tactics employed by Israel and many policy decisions over the years. But the general policy of refusal to allow return to those who evacuated in anticipation of victorious arab armies crushing the Zionists (which somehow never happened) seems like survival necessity to me.
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Wow, that’s really compassionate and sane. People should be punished because they didn’t want to be caught in the middle of a war zone.
 
Publisher said:
No no no…we’re on the same page…“Israe”…“true Israel” has nothing to do with the State of Israel…the State of Israel is a secular government populated by men and women who may or may not be blood decendents of Abraham…and certainly not part of the New Covenant…they are not representative of the Chosen People…yes our brethren are suffering…but those who wish to decry the atrocities of Muslims against Christians are silent about what the citizens of Israel do to God’s Covenant People in their country…the State of Israel is not the same as the Israel of God.

On this I think we agree…
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Read Jeremiah 35-37

There are Jesus believing Jews living in that country witnessing to their bretheren. And those Israeli Christians believe that God has restored them to that land. How shameful it is to say that this tiny nation that is hated by the world and is pressured to give their land up to Arabs for “peace”; that they have nothing to do with Gods prophecy.

Read Ezekial 36
Verse 22 says God is not doing all these things for their sake, but for the sake of HIS HOLY NAME-"THE GOD OF ISRAEL-THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB(ISRAEL).
 
There is certainly no harm in supporting justice for the Palestinian people. Especially since most of the Christians in the region are Palestinians. They have been oppressed by Israel to the same extent as the Muslims have. Yes, the oppression is very real and long-lasting, a program of ethnic cleansing.

Will total independence for Palestine be good for the Christians? Possibly, if the Muslim majority does not identify it’s own Christian minority as agents of the west. This is the problem Iraqi Christians are experiencing, they were far better off under Saddam Husein (amazingly), now they are the targets of their bitter neighbors.

Supporting justice for Palestine will probably help the Palestinian Christians secure their place within the culture, and may even open up the possibility of evangelization among the non-Christian natives as the hate subsides.

http://www.madonnahouse.org/publications/passiton/images/Archbishop-Joseph-Raya.jpg
Archbishop Joseph Raya
of Akko, Haifa, Nazareth and All Galilee

May His Memory Be Eternal!
 
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