Should Drugs Be Legalized?

[BobObob]

The entire discussion centers around the question, “Should society prohibit activities which it (society) deems harmful or potentially harmful to its citizens?” and the corresponding question, “What constitutes “harmful”?”

I think the government should focus on protecting liberty and leave the other questions (like whether the use of a certain drug is harmful for a user) up to localities, churches, and individuals.

If any use of any drug leads one to impose harm on others (say being drunk or high leads him to run over a pedestrian or violently assault someone), he should be fully legally guilty and prosecutable for this crime. However, as long as he is only risking harm to himself, he should be allowed to make a horrible decision. Use of any drug (including alcohol) should be all about responsibility.

 

[UnworthyApostle]

I think perhaps there may not be a blanket statement answer for the question. I think medical marajuana should be legalized and taxed, however; I think that real hard stuff(crack,meth etc.) should not be made legal as to the severe effects on the person and society they can pose. In all, I think that each case needs to be analyzed in detail and then a better assesment can be made. This discussion is very fruitful. God Bless.

 

[Christopher68]

I have read various articles both pro and con on this issue. I am familiar with the usual arguments why this is bad idea, and they don’t hold water. I am in support of legalization.

 

[mark_a]

Now, I also see that doing so may injure the common good of society due to many hardcore drugs such as crack, meth, and LSD. So, I would like to hear what other people may think about this issue. God Bless.

I think you answered your own question. Drugs and other things, like abortion, that in the long run hurt society, should be illegal.

The tougher question is: what should the penalties be?

 

[stringbeanduck]

I’ve heard, from individuals who did more research than I did, that the problem is actually that a day’s worth of Marinol costs hundreds of dollars (which most people can’t afford) and it isn’t as affective as marijuana (not as effective and treats fewer problems).

Agreed. If you ever read the side effects of this man made drug, you’ll notice there are several and worse than marijuana. Secondly marijuana has other cannabaniods that that are also are found to be helpful in treating medical conditions. Furthermore, Marinol is more phychoactive than marijuana since its main ingrediant is THC and a lot of it. In marijuana, CBD another cannabaniod that binds to cannabaniod receptors, takes up space, preventing too much THC from acting on the brain- to put it in simple terms.

 

[stringbeanduck]

I’m not a big fan of the term drugs since it’s very ambiguous. Personally I think any substance that can not be handled responsibly (as in moderation with good judgment) and/or causes grave damage to health and reason should not be legal.

 

[Desertsailor]

Alcohol and legal licit drugs are not what I’m talking about. Let’s get that clear right off the bat.

The drugs I’m talking about are the illegal illicit drugs and any other chemical substance that is calculated to cause intoxication. These drugs are immoral and it is sinful to intentionally use them in order to be intoxicated.
Drug related crime accounts for more than 90% of the crime in the US. Legalizing these things is insane. What if a young person votes to legalize drugs and then when he has teenagers he is forced to watch them throw their futures and lives away. I think he’ll regret his vote.
The only solution to the problem is to execute all criminals convicted of manufacturing or selling drugs. People who are convicted of possession of controlled substances should be incarcerated for life without hope of parole.
Within ten years there won’t be anymore drugs or drug crimes. If the punishment for a crime is not more terrible than the crime itself then the law has no teeth and won’t work.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

People would actually be shocked about how many addicts are out there. I am not talking about the man you see on the corner of the street witch trackmarks on his arm, red eyes, and an emaciated form barely hanging only life and sanity. There are men and women out there who are school teachers, businessmen - reputable people. We never see that they come to work sober, clean, and happy. They are faking it through the day so they can go home and get high. Their family has been ripped apart and they live in daily pain. They want treatment, but they know that if it comes out that they struggle with addiction, they will lose their jobs and risk incarceration. So they are stuck in the cycle, living a painful and empty life, unable to get help.

Believe it or not, this is a pretty typical thing. Especially with things like cocaine or heroin. This is why I am on the fence myself. I don’t know if legalization will lead to more use. I doubt it, especially if we tax it and use the revenue for effective drug resistance education, education in general, and rehabilitation centers. But at the same time I don’t know if it is a risk we want to take. I believe that some people will try it just because it is legal, but not many. But if legalization allows these closet addicts to take off their masks and get the help they need to live a clean life without fear of losing what they have left, it might be worth it.

The thing is, we all make mistakes. Some unfortunate people made the mistake of using an addictive drug. Now they are stuck with it because they feel like there is no other choice. I can’t imagine how hard that situation would be.

 

[stringbeanduck]

The only solution to the problem is to execute all criminals convicted of manufacturing or selling drugs. People who are convicted of possession of controlled substances should be incarcerated for life without hope of parole.
Within ten years there won’t be anymore drugs or drug crimes. If the punishment for a crime is not more terrible than the crime itself then the law has no teeth and won’t work.

That’s contrary to Catholic teaching. Nobody should suffer punishment greater than the crime they’ve committed. Unless you support communism.

 

[BobObob]

Drug related crime accounts for more than 90% of the crime in the US. Legalizing these things is insane.

Desertsailor, drug related crimes account for such a large % of crime because they’re illegal, and this illegality causes black markets. America had much less problems with drugs than before the “war on drugs” started than it does now.

The only solution to the problem is to execute all criminals convicted of manufacturing or selling drugs. People who are convicted of possession of controlled substances should be incarcerated for life without hope of parole.
Within ten years there won’t be anymore drugs or drug crimes. If the punishment for a crime is not more terrible than the crime itself then the law has no teeth and won’t work.

Are you insane! Do you seriously think that the 83+ million American who have tried marijuana should be put in jail for life without parole (angelfire.com/me5/healthproject/users.html ncadi.samhsa.gov/)? Do you seriously think that a person who sells a few ounces of marijuana to his/her personal friends should be given the death penalty? Did I misinterpret you, or is that what you are really saying?

The incrimination of various substances, such as the safe drug of marijuana or even extremely dangerous drugs like cocaine, has cause much greater evils than they eliminated.

Also, it should be noted that alcohol is a lot more of a dangerous drug than marijuana. Lester Grinspoon, MD, a professor of psychiatry at the Harvard Medical School, noted that there has never been a documented case of a death due to marijuana overdose. The same definitely can’t be said about alcohol.

They want treatment, but they know that if it comes out that they struggle with addiction, they will lose their jobs and risk incarceration. So they are stuck in the cycle, living a painful and empty life, unable to get help.

Believe it or not, this is a pretty typical thing. Especially with things like cocaine or heroin. This is why I am on the fence myself. I don’t know if legalization will lead to more use. I doubt it…

Your right about those seeking treatment. Treating them like criminals often makes it more difficult for the problem to be dealt with.

I think legalizing various substances will increase their usage in the short term because some people will try them due to their new status as “legal”. However, I think abuse of these substances in the long term will go down, as evidence by the fact that few people in the Netherlands use marijuana although it’s legal there. Sometimes education regarding the effect of a substance is a lot more effective in reducing it’s use than the law.

 

[justamoose89]

You guys realize that these same type of arguments are used to justify abortion right?

Good point. People say that if drugs and abortion are illegal, then its going to happen anyway, we might as well have it legal. :doh2:

If abortion was illegal, then all funding towards abortion would cease, and it would be much more difficult to have an abortion. Lets face it: If abortion wasn’t so easy, it wouldn’t happen so often! Those who do not want a child would be much more careful and display much more self control if abortion was illegal.

I believe it is the same with drugs. If we think there alot of people who do drugs now, just wait and see what happens if we legalize them!

 

[Desertsailor]

=BobObob;6787719]Desertsailor, drug related crimes account for such a large % of crime because they’re illegal, and this illegality causes black markets. America had much less problems with drugs than before the “war on drugs” started than it does now.

You need to look into the number of thefts, robberies, assaults, murders and on and on that are drug related.

Are you insane! Do you seriously think that the 83+ million American who have tried marijuana should be put in jail for life without parole (angelfire.com/me5/healthproject/users.html ncadi.samhsa.gov/)? Do you seriously think that a person who sells a few ounces of marijuana to his/her personal friends should be given the death penalty? Did I misinterpret you, or is that what you are really saying?

That’s exactly what I’m saying. And I’m not insane.

The incrimination of various substances, such as the safe drug of marijuana or even extremely dangerous drugs like cocaine, has cause much greater evils than they eliminated.

Marijuana isn’t safe.

Also, it should be noted that alcohol is a lot more of a dangerous drug than marijuana. Lester Grinspoon, MD, a professor of psychiatry at the Harvard Medical School, noted that there has never been a documented case of a death due to marijuana overdose. The same definitely can’t be said about alcohol.

I don’t care what some professor said. Marijuana is dangerous not only because it is a gateway drug but because it does permanent brain damage with each use.

I think legalizing various substances will increase their usage in the short term because some people will try them due to their new status as “legal”. However, I think abuse of these substances in the long term will go down, as evidence by the fact that few people in the Netherlands use marijuana although it’s legal there. Sometimes education regarding the effect of a substance is a lot more effective in reducing it’s use than the law.

This is wrong thinking. It’s like saying if we legalize abortion we will have less abortions.

 

[edwest2]

I usually see the us versus them argument about this. The awful government can’t keep this illegal - the demand is so high. Who is the government? Aren’t they human beings like you and me? Don’t they have kids? Are they, as parents, worried about their kids coming into contact with illegal drugs?

In the end, everybody decides who to trust. Problem is, the people who love illegal drugs don’t want them to go away. Certain drugs are controlled substances for a reason:

justice.gov/dea/pubs/csa.html

The U.S. Government does not just make this stuff up.

I also hear about education. Education about what? How to use illegal drugs safely? What not to do when you go looking to buy crack?

Seriously folks, some people have it hard enough and just should not waste money on dope. Kids need an education. They also need a good example. Do this but avoid that. Why are most young people drinking or smoking? Bad example, their friends do it or they think it’s cool or to drown out problems in their own lives.

I’ve known too many people who started using to drown out reality. That’s not learning how to cope. That’s not learning about how to deal with life. You want a high quality education and you want to help people in your community? How’s smoking dope going to get you there?

As far as gangs and criminals getting rich - just stop buying the dope. If I was a national leader, I would not want to encourage people to add even more substances to what is currently available. You can google lost productivity due to alcoholism by employees. There’s a real dollar amount there. You can google the cost of lung cancer in this country caused by cigarette smoking. So the criminals don’t get the money from selling cigarettes and booze, but in the end, what do you get? The hospital gets the money and employers, families and friends get to watch the user go downhill and for what?

God bless,
ed

 

[Desertsailor]

That’s contrary to Catholic teaching. Nobody should suffer punishment greater than the crime they’ve committed. Unless you support communism.

You need to spend more time reading the bible and catechism before you accuse me of going against the Church.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I also hear about education. Education about what? How to use illegal drugs safely? What not to do when you go looking to buy crack?

I posted about education. I was also very clear.

Drug RESISTANCE education (that means not using drugs) and better funding for general education (so our kids have a fighting chance) and effective rehabilitation centers.

So no, not “what not to do when you go looking to buy crack.”

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

That’s exactly what I’m saying. And I’m not insane.

I have an honest question. How can you reconcile using the death penalty and depriving someone of their life breathed into them by God for a crime that is done by expressed consent of the other party?! It is not saving a life, it is not alleviating immediate threat or harm. The church would not allow the use of the death penalty in this case.

People have a right to life. Not just the unborn.

 

[BobObob]

BobObob;6787719:

Desertsailor, drug related crimes account for such a large % of crime because they’re illegal

, and this illegality causes black markets. America had much less problems with drugs than before the “war on drugs” started than it does now.

You need to look into the number of thefts, robberies, assaults, murders and on and on that are drug related.

Actually, I think that these numbers back up my position that making these substances creates more crime. If someone is strongly addicted to something that he can only attain through a black market, he’s going to be willing to do a lot of things to attain the high amounts of drug money needed. Black markets are filled with violence otherwise as well.

You typically don’t see any marijuana related crimes in the Netherlands, where it’s legal.

BobObob;6787719:

Are you insane! Do you seriously think that the 83+ million American who have tried marijuana should be put in jail for life without parole (angelfire.com/me5/healthproject/users.html

ncadi.samhsa.gov/)? Do you seriously think that a person who sells a few ounces of marijuana to his/her personal friends should be given the death penalty? Did I misinterpret you, or is that what you are really saying?

That’s exactly what I’m saying. And I’m not insane.

If you want to put almost a hundred million, more than 1 out of 5 Americans, in jail for life without parole plus kill thousands of others, you are insane. There’s a reason why the US more inmates than all other countries (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison#Population_statistics).

Marijuana isn’t safe.

Do you have any non-governmental sponsored studies or any medical doctor (who isn’t paid by the government) who has studied marijuana to back up the idea that marijuana is a toxic drug? It’s a hallucinogen that temporary alters one’s consciousness, but has no known negative long-term effects despite studies on the issue.

I don’t care what some professor said. Marijuana is dangerous not only because it is a gateway drug but because it does permanent brain damage with each use.

What’s your source (if any)?

If you don’t treat this professor at a prestigious institution to be a credible source, than what source are you relying on when you claim “ Marijuana is dangerous not only because it is a gateway drug but because it does permanent brain damage with each use”.

BobObob;6787719:

I think legalizing various substances will increase their usage in the short term because some people will try them due to their new status as “legal”. However, I think abuse of these substances in the long term will go down, as evidence by the fact that few people in the Netherlands use marijuana although it’s legal there. Sometimes education regarding the effect of a substance is a lot more effective in reducing it’s use than the law.

This is wrong thinking. It’s like saying if we legalize abortion we will have less abortions.

First, you do know that a higher % of US citizens use marijuana than citizens of the Netherlands, where marijuana is legal, don’t you?

Second, substance use and abortion are very different things. For some things, being “off-limits” may give it a sense of appeal to many people (I like to dub this the “forbidden fruit” effect). This couldn’t really apply for abortion, or other forms of murder.

In the end, everybody decides who to trust. Problem is, the people who love illegal drugs don’t want them to go away. Certain drugs are controlled substances for a reason:

justice.gov/dea/pubs/csa.html

The U.S. Government does not just make this stuff up.

I would caution against trusting government sources on this matter since certain government agencies have a need for certain substances to be illegal. If certain substances were legalized, many people in government would lose their precious jobs.

The ideal source is one that has no interest in the matter that would create bias.

 

[vera_dicere]

Dope (because I have a hard time spelling marjaunana) is a “gateway” drug. A lot of people who start out on dope end up moving up to something a little more damaging.

Now there are drugs that we use in medicine that have come from illict drugs like cocaine but drugs that are used in medicine are differently structured and very carefully monitored. I saw somethign recently about a medication made from dope, but the hallunicgenic in it was removed, and it assisted people with serious muscle spasams and pain.

But dope as a few bits of grass you roll up and smoke should be kept illegal.

I have gotten to see the most incredible damage to people’s lives done by “dope”, simply because they started using it, then moved up to something more dangerous.

Not to mention if you have a family history of mental illness, you shouldn’t touch the stuff as it increases, like really, really increases your risk of having a mental health crisis.

My younger sister used to be very clever, she skipped a head in school and used to help me out with my spelling and math, then she got on the dope. She only did it for a few years before she got pregnant and went cold turkey for teh sake of the baby, but her short term memory is shot, she is really paranoid about things, like people judging her and murderers stalking her, her math and spelling is not utterly horrific.

Keep that rubbish illegal.

And quite frankly, I think they should ban ciggarettes, why do we tolerate a product that kills 50% of its users not to mention harms people who dont’ use it but are near those who do?

Booze is another matter all together. You can’t “causually” or “responsibilty” use fags or dope/drugs. Its only a few idiots who misuse booze that ruin the situation for the rest of us.

 

[Desertsailor]

I posted about education. I was also very clear.

Drug RESISTANCE education (that means not using drugs) and better funding for general education (so our kids have a fighting chance) and effective rehabilitation centers.

So no, not “what not to do when you go looking to buy crack.”

Drug awareness resistance education has been used for at least 20 years and has had no effect. So I think this is a waste of time.

 

[colmywaykurtz]

Agreed. If you ever read the side effects of this man made drug, you’ll notice there are several and worse than marijuana. Secondly marijuana has other cannabaniods that that are also are found to be helpful in treating medical conditions. Furthermore, Marinol is more phychoactive than marijuana since its main ingrediant is THC and a lot of it. In marijuana, CBD another cannabaniod that binds to cannabaniod receptors, takes up space, preventing too much THC from acting on the brain- to put it in simple terms.

And there’s a whole other wrinkle to Marinol. I’ve heard that the currently-legal drug called Spice (or Genie or K2) is probably a slightly-altered spinoff of Marinol. In other words, a synthetic analogue of THC which is four or five times as powerful as natural THC. Spice has sent people to ERs with tachycardia, violent and horrible hallucinations, and has even generated symptoms of addiction in people who have used it for a few months. Who knows what else bathroom chemists will come up with if they can keep tinkering around with the Marinol formula? I shudder to think…