Should good Catholics live the Amish Lifestyle?

[StratusRose]

Catholic 90,

I do not disagree with you about education, but the Saints would.

What about St. Catherine Drexel, St. Elizabeth Ann Seton and St. Thomas Aquinas?

 

[sanctamaria17]

Education only what’s necessary:

For my kids, that would have to include:

A thorough understanding of math and science as far as they could go with it
A grounding in the classics and Great Books-so they can understand history, politics, economics, government, literature, psychology, theology, and such better.
A grounding in theology and the Bible
Technology-goods and evils, how to use it, etc.
Other cultures
Morality
Community service component
Practicalities-Money management, driver’s education, cooking, household repairs, etc

I want my kids to know how to question, to know what the world is like, without conforming to it. Naturally, this wouldn’t just happen at school, part of it would have to be at home.

I want my kids to go as far in school as they can. I, for one, would love to see more ethical, humble, kind, intelligent, pro-life, environmentally friendly, socially just, Catholics of these professions:

Politicians
Lawyers
Business people of all kinds
Doctors/health care providers
Teachers
Diplomats
Priests-we need more of these anyway
Social workers
Other government officials
Counselors
Administrators
Professors
University Presidents
Economists
Scientists
Engineers

Do I need to keep going?

 

[KCT]

We need faithful Catholics in all sectors of society and all income levels in order to evangelize. How would that happen if we keep to ourselves, all dress the same, and associate only with our “own kind”?

 

[1ke]

Ceil,

The Amish are nice people (we have a lot of Amish in our area and have gotten to know several families quite well) but their religion are based on false doctrines coming out of the Anabaptist movement. The rules they set down for themselves and the way in which they live is based on faulty intepretation of Scripture.

The answer is no, we are not called to live an Amish lifestyle. We are called to live a **Catholic **lifestyle.

We are called to witness to the Gospel, and are called to holiness in our everyday lives. That does not mean we are called to live as the Amish live. There are many problems with their lifestyle and bigger ones with their religion.

 

[1ke]

I do not disagree with you about education, but the Saints would. Many have written that knowledge is not the same as wisdom, and that high levels of education lead to pride.

Saints are not infallible. And, the Church has no such view of education. In fact, the Church has the opposite view of education.

The Amish deliberately hold back to keep from getting prideful.

Well, that is debatable.

When you think of the current worldview having come from the knowledge obtained through science, (meant to help us, but, consistent with human nature, taken to an excessive level), one wonders how much better off we are with it.

I’d like to point out that while the Amish are restricted in the technology they may own, or may have **in **their home, they are **NOT **restricted from **using **technology (except for a few communities who have very strict rules). They shop at Wal-Mart, they have community phones, they use automobiles and they certainly avail themselves of modern medicine-- they have knee replacement surgery, CAT scans, eye glasses, and dental work just like the rest of us. Each Amish community sets their own rules regarding technology. Their restrictions of ownership are not based on the idea that technology is evil.

 

[1ke]

Hate to be Debbie Downer…, but they have such a thing called Rumspringa for their teen youth. Kind of disturbing.

When Amish children turn 16, the rules change. They’re encouraged to experiment and explore. The idea is that teens will come back to the church after tasting the modern world. For most, this means a tentative foray – a trip to the local movie theater, or driving lessons. But for some, the experience, called rumspringa, is all about sex, parties and fast cars.

npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5455572

American culture has something similar at 18/19 years old. It’s called College.

This article sensationalizes a small minority of Amish youth who go way beyond the Amish understanding of Rumspringa.

Sorta like articles focusing on priestly abuse in the Catholic Church that made it sound as if the majority of priests were involved when in fact there were very, very few.

 

[OLHope]

Hey please dont lump in fast cars with sex and parties. Fast cars are not bad as long as there on a race track with drivers that know what they are doing.

I agree! Sorry that was a direct quote from the NPR article, I should have quoted that. Raises a good question, why would they author use that when I do not think they know how to drive in general or if they are allowed to in their culture.

 

[Em_in_FL]

You’re right - the Amish do have an appealing look of holiness. It’s a great setup that narrows the scope of the world so that the outside intrusions don’t lead you down the wrong path… but does it really work?
Is *every *Amish man and woman gifted by God only in the ways that would lead them to exactly what they’re already doing? Meaning, what if God gifted an Amish person with exactly the traits that would allow them to find the cure for cancer only in the biggest and most technologically advanced hospital? Or exactly the right imagination to design the next space rocket?.. or on and on?.. are they all “destined” to be farmers, bakers, cart-makers, and mobile fireplace crafters?

And on another level - is it just the IMAGE of holiness that is attractive? Can’t that, on some level, also become an avenue for pride? Just LOOK at how HOLY I appear! Hmmm, what else can I do to make myself look holier to my friends and neighbors? Seriously. I only ask these questions because I’ve been there myself.

No, “good Catholics” do not need to fill an image. “Good Catholics” can have any image in the world. Have you ever gotten the wrong impression about someone on a first meeting?.. Thinking, wow, they’re totally out there!?!.. and then once you get to know them you find out that they’re really much more holy than you gave them credit for? I’ve come to that revelation so many times - putting someone aside because they just didn’t fill my image of someone I could be close to because they certainly couldn’t be a “good Catholic” with that image/appearance/attitude or whathaveyou…

My point is that images don’t mean a thing, and God has call us all to be unique and special in our own ways… and that includes lifestyles, dress, food, etc, etc, etc… we’re “CATHOLIC” = “UNIVERSAL”…

 

[OLHope]

This article sensationalizes a small minority of Amish youth who go way beyond the Amish understanding of Rumspringa.

Sorta like articles focusing on priestly abuse in the Catholic Church that made it sound as if the majority of priests were involved when in fact there were very, very few.

I don’t doubt that and it is irritating that I cannot find any stats about the actual participation. It is a learned, understood, and allowable rite of passage in their culture.

There is a documentary called “Devil’s Playground.” I should refresh my memory on the percentage of youth that do actually do this in their culture. I learned about Rumspringa many moons ago and thought, they are not any different than anyone else. Even if they tend to paint themselves wholesome and hardworking, there is a rebel busting out in everyone. What is most amazing is the high percentage of kids that go back to their church after this. We would have to go to confession. They just tell their parents they reject this life and want the church.

I would imagine that many youth upon learning what it is would reject it right away and know it was not for them.

In the mid 90’s I wrote my first term paper on Catholic clergy abuse, I can say for sure, that the stats from that were the lowest in comparison to any other non secular religion, and by far lower than the same abuse that is found mainly in the home, family, or schools. More Catholic, and we are disliked by media, so they have a field day roasting it. That burned me, so I had to write about being singled out over the other denominations.

No one should dote on the negatives, but they actually have a set name for this, it is part of their culture.

 

[SourGrape]

I can’t help but wonder if they would be better off in the country, no TV, etc. Hard to say.

Hi Ceil,

My husband and I currently live in the Bay area of California. He’s in the military, but we aren’t planning to stay in until retirement for we dream about living a semi-Amish life. We want a “farmette:” enough land to grow our own fruits, vegetables, and even raise a few cattle on like sheep and some dairy cows. We also want chickens. Now, my husband lived a life sort of like this for a short time at his parents’ house, and it’s always been appealing to me for I want to teach our children the value of work and the good kind of pride you can take in seeing the fruits, literally, of your labors.

Reading Successful Fathers: The Subtle but Powerful Ways Fathers Mold Their Children’s Characters by James B. Stenson really reinforced our belief that we need to show our children how we work. In that book, Stenson agrees with the point that a poster on here stated: the fact that the Industrial Revolution has taken a tragic toll on families. As Stenson sees it, children no longer see their father at work for when he comes home from an exhausting day at work, all he wants to do is relax by watching TV and such. So they mostly see their father at play.

It’s a good book, and I recommend it for you, as I think you’d benefit from it’s message.

Anyway, we do not own a TV because we can’t control the offensive commercials that are broadcast. We love our computer and internet, though! We use it to learn information: from politics to history to even shopping for some items, and it is the way we watch “TV” as we watch our Netflix on it. I love Netflix for then you have complete control over what you’re watching and no commercials! We bought a 24" LCD monitor, so it’s like watching on a flat screen TV. The computer is set up in our family room, so when our son (and future children) are older, they will be using the computer in the family room. But, of course, as another poster stated, you need to buy protection to monitor the internet as well.

If you feel drawn to live in the country and can do so financially, I say, go for it! My husband and I can’t wait to settle down in that way and build our own home and “farmette.” It is possible to do! Pray about it and talk it over with your spouse, and see where God leads you! God bless!

But as other posters said, living such a life doesn’t necessarily make one holier or even sanctify a person…and the Church has always been for education. Think of the great minds like St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine. Have you ever read the book by Wood on How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization? The Catholic history is so rich and we have all kinds of Saints: those who had little book knowledge or couldn’t even read and those who were the authors of Catholic doctrines, and then the great Jesuit scientists, and other professionals!

 

[Ali_formerJW]

Any thoughts?

Only a story about my 13 yo dd to share. First of all, for our garden this year she had to help her Dad shovel the manure and spread it all around. Then the next day she had to help me plant it. She had one row of corn done, stood up, and announced that she is glad that she is no Amish. Cause you know how hard it is to plant a garden if you’re Amish ROFLOL

But, then, this past Sunday leaving church she announced that she was converting to Amish because they have church Saturday evening instead of getting up for the 8:30 Mass on Sunday morning!! Where do they come up with this stuff?? Then I reminded her the Amish don’t shave their legs and wear really long dresses All.The.Time. She wasn’t so interested after that.

Ok, back to the regular topic. I don’t have anything useful to add.

 

[1ke]

I don’t doubt that and it is irritating that I cannot find any stats about the actual participation.

Well, no one wants to read a book about the Amish who attend volleyball games and chuch socials. People want scandal, and that is what the author is trying to give them. The author is appealing to the base appetites of the READER.

It is a learned, understood, and allowable rite of passage in their culture.

This author distorts the meaning of Rumspringa, IMHO. The Amish have explained it to my husband and I. It is not a period of going wild. It is a period of discernment leading up to baptism. Baptism commits them once and for all to being Amish. Baptism incorporates them into the community, and if they leave the community after baptism they will go to Hell. That is the Amish teaching. Once you have accepted baptism, you cannot transgress the Amish laws and church teachings because you will go to Hell.

It seems in this particular area, there are some Amish youth going wild and doing drugs. Perhaps they are too close to a large city supplying those drugs. The Amish here would tell you “that’s not the Amish way.”

There is a documentary called “Devil’s Playground.” I should refresh my memory on the percentage of youth that do actually do this in their culture. I learned about Rumspringa many moons ago and thought, they are not any different than anyone else.

For most Amish, Rumspringa consists of volleyball and church socials. It is a period of discerning marriage, discerning baptism, and deciding to become an adult member of the Amish community. Once they are baptized, they no longer attend the “young folks” activities such as volleyball, softball, socials, etc.

Even if they tend to paint themselves wholesome and hardworking, there is a rebel busting out in everyone. What is most amazing is the high percentage of kids that go back to their church after this.

That’s because they’ve been taught from birth that non-Amish go to Hell. If they don’t go back, get baptized, and be Amish-- they are going to Hell.

We would have to go to confession.

The Amish have confession-- and it’s public in front of the entire congregation. It applies to everyone who has been baptized.

Once they accept baptism, they must live according to the Amish way. If they don’t they’ll be excommunicated. And, that means they will go to Hell unless they repent.

They just tell their parents they reject this life and want the church.

And they receive baptism, which washes away their sins. Just like Catechumens in the Catholic Church.

I would imagine that many youth upon learning what it is would reject it right away and know it was not for them.

And the fear of Hell is also a very powerful motivator.

In the mid 90’s I wrote my first term paper on Catholic clergy abuse, I can say for sure, that the stats from that were the lowest in comparison to any other non secular religion, and by far lower than the same abuse that is found mainly in the home, family, or schools. More Catholic, and we are disliked by media, so they have a field day roasting it. That burned me, so I had to write about being singled out over the other denominations.

Yes, authors appeal to base instincts. People want to read about the bad things, not the good things.

No one should dote on the negatives, but they actually have a set name for this, it is part of their culture.

And, I would propose that what the author attributes to this process is sensationalized and an inaccurate portrait of the Amish culture.

 

[kage_ar]

npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5455572

NPR is not exactly an accurate source for learning about a religion.

 

[AHapka]

drinking, or any impurity is not even thought of, much less spoken of.

I didn’t know drinking was an impurity. It amazes me that Jesus would make weddings he attended impure. Also, didn’t Timothy state to have a little wine for the sake of your stomach.

Also, I would like to add that just because people APPEAR to be living a holy and non-sinful life doesn’t mean it’s necissarily so. I’m sure there are many good and holy Amish. I’m sure there are also sinful ones who sin in ways which are not public. Many sins are private sins, and we shouldn’t assume that their way of living keeps them from committing the sins common in secular culture.

No TV could mean avoiding Cinemax (also called “skinemax”). But it could also mean no EWTN. No Internet could mean avoiding many pornography sites. But it could also mean no Vatican website (not to mention not having this debate). Nearly any technology can be used for both good or evil.

From a personal standpoint, no Internet would mean no WOW. And that’s my primary means of recreation… Only 6 levels to 80 for me

 

[Ceil-1]

Unfortunately, this system of sharing leads to misunderstanding of intent and meaning.

Education is a good thing, duh. But, let’s face it; it is not necessary for our salvation. We are bound only by God’s Will for us, in that respect, ie: if He sends us to a wonderful school for a great education, we had better not squander it or be ungrateful. These people choose to avoid worldly ambition. They think it is dangerous to have.

I did not mean to imply drinking was impure. But, let’s face it, it has caused many to fall. Plus, their theology, which we do not share, teaches that it is. If the Church told me not to drink, I would not drink.

And, my inability to quote some saints on the education thing is unfortunate. Thomas A’Kempis did mention it in Imitation of Christ. Now he is not considered a bona fide saint, but St. Therese, and some others, read it and lived by it. It helped form them in their spirtuality.

Obviously, the Church likes education. But, the Lord clearly prefers the humble and poor. He demands much from those who are educated. They are simply playing it safe.

The Amish are far from perfect, however, that’s for sure. Far too pacifistic. They are in for a big surprise coming up, taking their freedom for granted, not doing their civic duty and vote in people who value this freedom, instead living off the sacrifices of the rest of us, in this respect.

It is not their theology, but their simplistic lifestyle I am interested in.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

The answer is no, we are not called to live an Amish lifestyle. We are called to live a **Catholic **lifestyle.

plaincatholic.tripod.com/id5.html

This link will take you to a website for Plain Catholics. These are solid Catholics who have chosen to live a simple life.

 

[BiologyBrain]

I think we, as outsiders, look at the Amish (& Mennonites & other highly orthodox/strict) communities and think, “Surely their lives are better, holier, and simpler than ours. Perhaps we should live that way as well.” However, inside the communities are still the same temptations (maybe toned down or altered subtly), the same disagreements among members, the same requirements for life, the same sins, and the same forgiveness. We are called to be the best people we can be in our current communities. We are called to witness for others. “Let them know you are Christians by your Love.” If that means you need to live in a strict community denying yourself certain things, so be it. If that’s the community you were born into, so be it. However, don’t expect it to solve your problems or get you into Heaven.

Sure, some people could convert or emulate the Amish life-style and be better for it. However, people will always struggle with the 7 deadly sins regardless of their community lifestyle. In some communities its easier to sin than others, but the tendency is built into our human nature by that 1st sin of Adam. Humans are fundamentally good, but Satan has wormed his way into our nature and into our minds by making his ways appear easier, better, and more fun.

 

[sanctamaria17]

Well, when you say, “But the saints say higher education leads to pride and would disagree with you”, you make it sound like you disapprove.

Education may not be necessary for salvation, per se…But if God calls you to something (that may or may require you to pursue it) and you reject His call, there may be some issues you have to work out with Him.

As for drinking…it has caused many to fall…so have the Pharisees, who were living according to the Law…Though my Italian, Scottish, Spanish, and Jewish ancestors would have a very good laugh at the thought of God completely banning alcohol…

As for Youtube…for all the bad stuff on there, I’ve found a beautiful tribute to Our Lady of Fatima, a lovely chanting of the Salve Regina by Dominican monks, P&W gems such as “Beautiful One”, documentaries on the evils of sex slavery, gangs and the Mafia, and other educational and religious matters…

For my education, rather than a source of pride, it’s become a tool for me to open my mind and see where God is calling me. Does He want me in the government? In a non-profit? In academia? In another country, whether for missions or not? Does He want me working in a hospital? In youth ministry? In a think tank?

I may be a Catholic in heels, purple lipstick and black boots, or in blue jeans, Birkenstocks, and social justice T-shirts, but at the core, I am Catholic all the way. I may be a Catholic who listens to rock, drinks Fair Trade coffee, and talks politics, yet I’m also a Catholic who defends pro-life, is abstaining from sex till marriage, and actually does want a bunch of kids. I may be a Catholic who tends to lean left (except on pro-life), who wants to own a motor bike, who has a Facebook, who’s starting a rock band with her best friend, but I still read the Bible, go to Mass every Sunday, and I believe it really is the Body and Blood of Jesus we’re receiving…

I’m not perfect. I have to go to Confession…but I have not found that contemporary life prevents me from accepting Jesus for who He really is…if anything, the idea that it’s too crazy is proof right there that we really DO need to educate our children, if at least so they can handle themselves…

 

[OLHope]

Good point about the no drinking clause (lame), and how is volleyball an impurity, too? How silly! No video games? If these people need civilized help, they are going to be at a huge disadvantage. I do not know one Amish person! Sooo again, I do not care too much. I think whether it be sex, smoking, drugs, or football…, who cares, we deal with that stuff in our own culture at all different stages and ages of life.

I play volleyball, and I am a decent sport at it, but I do not think I am going to hell for being competitive or somewhat talented. In my vicinity I know no Amish people, I know 3/4 people are Roman Catholic, I grew up thinking everyone was Catholic, and THANK GOD FOR THAT, thank God for the the internet and making my technological life a heck of a lot easier.

They baptize later in life, too (this shocks the heck out of me, and now leads me into other tangents, but I am not delving farther into that)? Well then, its our salvation against theirs. The NPR piece was completely fine, it is ok to show negative sides of things, life is not always hunky dory. They are no better than anyone else, I don’t care what hair style or uniform they wear. They look like the Texas Mormons to me. Point being that it doesn’t matter how attractive they make themselves or lifestyle look, they are no different then the bum on the street, and neither are any one of us.

Your news, no matter how you get it, is greatly negative, it has to be, consumers and citizens must be informed to protect themselves, and sometimes to learn. Was the drinking, sex, and drugs out of line with NPR, heck no, and who cares, it CAN happen, but whoa, volleyball. Come on! That is the extreme diversity with the cultures.

I do not dispute the rationale to have them do a few hours of manual labor a day to learn responsibility and discipline. All day, though? No one wants to do that. If it is family oriented, is there a paycheck? Just salvation?

Most of you speak to these people about your similarities and differences, but as soon as you turn away, you both can be well that is all nice and well, but they are going to hell (I know I would). Chances are good they still do do the same abuses any other denomination does, even the ones ever mentioned in our faith. I am totally sure they sneak a drink or smoke here and there even after Rumaspringa, because every home can have the nagging/complaintive female or the underproductive male, and it’s never enough. One journalist got too close and uncovered Rumaspringa and had a story. If they stuck around, who knows what else they can find. There are no famous Amish journalists out there. Who do you know?

I am not listening to anyone here who have spoken to Amish people who talk themselves up! That is hearsay and BS! You cannot be friends with these people (never, you are just not excepted by them if you are not one of them), you can only be pleasant with them. I would like to live in the country, too, but in no way like that!

Anymore, and I would think an Amish person ran into town and paid someone with fresh cow’s milk to start this thread.

So my answer to the OP’s question…, NO WAY!

 

[Ceil-1]

How sharp the serpent’s tongue!

I look for some chit chat on an issue, and I get snarky remarks, and told I am full of BS. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

The Pharisitical analogy about drinking is completely inappropriate to the comment I made, which you have managed to completely blow out of proportion. You are attempting to rip me apart for whatever you can pull up out of your sharp, educated wit, sanctamaria.

I think it is time to close this thread before more uncharitable remarks are made.

I think the answer, given the website linked, is for some, yes. For others, no. Thanks to those who participated.