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pathia
Guest
How is rationing via income, not rationing?
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josephdavid
Guest
Please explain. Not sure what you are asking. sorry
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josephdavid
Guest
po18guy
Well-known member
Disagree. It is not rationing, but it is a restriction solely on what the insurance company will pay for. In stark contrast, the government will provide LESS health care, as it creates no hospitals or clinics, and does not graduate one more doctor nurse or technician. It takes money out of health care and forces it to be used in programs and employees that can certify that imposing government standards are being met. Once you turn your life over to the government, you have made yourself sub-human.
Aren’t you Catholic? How can you support death at taxpayer expense? You certainly oppose the death penalty in all cases, right? But the slaughter of innocents is OK as long as its called “health care”?
WRONG!There is not one word about tort reform in the 1990 pages of this bill. The lawyers will not let that happen - beginning with our Lawyer in Chief, the President. Show us where tort reform appears anywhere in this bill. Also, show us why practicing Catholics should oppose both our Bishops and Church teaching for the sake of the politicians’ promise of “health care”.
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pathia
Guest
Right now, if you have money and you can get insurance. You can afford preventive and chronic treatments.
If you do not have money, you do have access to emergency care, but that’s it, no preventive or chronic treatments. Some people cannot get the care they need, because they don’t have enough money. What else is that besides rationing via income?
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josephdavid
Guest
Good point!
po18guy
Well-known member
This is simple: You want government health care? OK. Certain babies will die. Certain elderly will die. How’s that sound? Is it OK as long as you get to live? Do we believe in a God of righteousness, or not?
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josephdavid
Guest
Sounds like semantics here.
So you do not believe access to affordable and equal health care is a right?
Show me where it funds abortions with in th bill. Do not give me commentary and speculation. Please show me with in any of the healthcare bills that over rides the Hyde Amendment.Aren’t you Catholic? How can you support death at taxpayer expense? You certainly oppose the death penalty in all cases, right? But the slaughter of innocents is OK as long as its called “health care”?
In questioning my faith. You are not our Lord. So do not play that game. Self righteousness is a sin remember? Furthermore show me with in the CCC and Scripture where it says one life is less equal than million?
This we can agree one because many Congressmen get so much money form them. Same as the Insurance companies are paying hundreds of millions of dollars to change the minds of people like Sen. Joe Lieberman on offering a public option and regulation to make sure all Americans get affordable and equal healthcare.
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josephdavid
Guest
And could you show us specifics in any of the bills that will show your point?
Also are you sinless sir? Are you suggesting if we do not agree with your political ideology we are sinful and not worthy of salvation?
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pathia
Guest
Right now, certain people will die, certain elderly people will die, certain infants will die, because insurance companies say yes or no based entirely on what is or isn’t profitable versus what they can get away with, or they didn’t have insurance in the first place.
There are no death panels in the present bill.
My mother had her insurance coverage dumped retroactively while she was fighting ovarian cancer. They said she ‘lied’ about a difficult birth of my younger brother. However, given that this questionnaire was filled out while she had chemo and radiation therapies and couldn’t remember HER OWN BIRTHDAY, I think forgetting something 20years ago is acceptable, but not for the insurance company. It was perfectly legal. I had my insurance dumped retroactively twice in my life, once when I was 3months old, and once when I was 17, again perfectly legal.
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jackregnier
Guest
For once I can agree with a Catholic. Good Job. I believe that many in this nation are what I would call, It’s all about me and would throw Grandma off the train for their selfish reasons.
Peace, Jack
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pathia
Guest
As opposed to the current plan, which is to throw poor people off the train? I don’t really see how one can point out at a system that isn’t even in place yet is going to do horrible thing X, when horrible thing Y continues with no excuses in the real world.
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josephdavid
Guest
And yet he has posted no direct links or quotations supporting his accusations.
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fultonfish
Guest
The government says there isn’t enough competition among medical insurors. There’s only about 1700 of them and they are forbidden by the government to compete.
So, what is the government’s answer? A government monopoly.
That’s what we need. [sarcasm] ANOTHER government monopoly. But with the IRS applying police powers.
At the risk of repeating myself:
To quote some anonymous person at one of the town hall meetings:
Social Security is broke.
Medicare is broke.
Medicaid is broke.
The post office is broke.
Fannie Mae is broke.
Freddie Mac is broke.
Cash for Clunkers is broke.
The government controls everything and screws it up. Government is the REASON we are in so much trouble.
And now you want the government to take over health care with its one-size-fits-all approach administered by the world’s largest bureaucracy; what do you take us for.
Let us run our own lives.
Get the government off our backs.
Let us have the private sector compete interstate without mandates and we can have better, cheaper, faster health care than any government bureaucracy can possibly provide.
If I want to use government bureaucratic health care, I can always visit my nearest Indian reservation. There are probably around 500 of them.
[Now there’s an idea !!! We already have government health care. Those legislators in favor of nationalized health care should just order everyone to report to their nearest Indian reservation.]
So what the advocates of government are proposing is a 2000 page law creating a new bureaucracy that will control all elements of our personal lives applying a one-size-fits-all approach with doctors being forced to decline medical care for those most in need (very young, very old, very sick).
So, what is the government’s answer? A government monopoly.
That’s what we need. [sarcasm] ANOTHER government monopoly. But with the IRS applying police powers.
At the risk of repeating myself:
To quote some anonymous person at one of the town hall meetings:
Social Security is broke.
Medicare is broke.
Medicaid is broke.
The post office is broke.
Fannie Mae is broke.
Freddie Mac is broke.
Cash for Clunkers is broke.
The government controls everything and screws it up. Government is the REASON we are in so much trouble.
And now you want the government to take over health care with its one-size-fits-all approach administered by the world’s largest bureaucracy; what do you take us for.
Let us run our own lives.
Get the government off our backs.
Let us have the private sector compete interstate without mandates and we can have better, cheaper, faster health care than any government bureaucracy can possibly provide.
If I want to use government bureaucratic health care, I can always visit my nearest Indian reservation. There are probably around 500 of them.
[Now there’s an idea !!! We already have government health care. Those legislators in favor of nationalized health care should just order everyone to report to their nearest Indian reservation.]
So what the advocates of government are proposing is a 2000 page law creating a new bureaucracy that will control all elements of our personal lives applying a one-size-fits-all approach with doctors being forced to decline medical care for those most in need (very young, very old, very sick).
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fultonfish
Guest
President Obama stated that this is about health insurance reform.
In fact, the BEST way to get any kind of reform is to ensure MORE competition. To get the government OUT of the competition because it cannot control its costs [it uses tax money without any inhibition] and because it has police powers to enforce its way.
The government will shove everyone out of the way. Why will a 2000 page law on health care that no one has read be an improvement over the competitive system we now have [and that can be improved if government would get out of the way].
What we need is free market interstate competition without mandatory mandates.
The present insurance companies have offered innovative coverage, but the government has forbidden interstate competition. Difficult cases can be worked with using compassion, but the IRS has outlawed compassion.
What has resulted in greater customer satisfaction in airlines, automobiles, telecommunications, television, radio, print media, food, computers, the internet, you name it, is MORE competition. MORE competition works; the government does not work.
When the Japanese auto companies and German auto companies entered the U.S. market, they created a whole raft of innovation and competition. People could buy very economical cars like the little Nissans and Toyotas and VW Beetles. [Or BMW’s and Mercedes]. Other companies were forced to compete. Fuel economy got better and mechanical reliability got better.
The same applies to every other field.
Can you imagine if the government manufactured cars, like they did in East Germany with the Trabant?
In fact, the BEST way to get any kind of reform is to ensure MORE competition. To get the government OUT of the competition because it cannot control its costs [it uses tax money without any inhibition] and because it has police powers to enforce its way.
The government will shove everyone out of the way. Why will a 2000 page law on health care that no one has read be an improvement over the competitive system we now have [and that can be improved if government would get out of the way].
What we need is free market interstate competition without mandatory mandates.
The present insurance companies have offered innovative coverage, but the government has forbidden interstate competition. Difficult cases can be worked with using compassion, but the IRS has outlawed compassion.
What has resulted in greater customer satisfaction in airlines, automobiles, telecommunications, television, radio, print media, food, computers, the internet, you name it, is MORE competition. MORE competition works; the government does not work.
When the Japanese auto companies and German auto companies entered the U.S. market, they created a whole raft of innovation and competition. People could buy very economical cars like the little Nissans and Toyotas and VW Beetles. [Or BMW’s and Mercedes]. Other companies were forced to compete. Fuel economy got better and mechanical reliability got better.
The same applies to every other field.
Can you imagine if the government manufactured cars, like they did in East Germany with the Trabant?
po18guy
Well-known member
As long as you pay for my health care, yes.
Wake up! Even the USCCB, a very liberal organization, is now calling for nationwide, parish by parish opposition to this health care because of the ABORTION in it. Open your eyes! You are falling for the big lie.
The USCCB say that you are not following your faith if you support ANY health care system that has abortion in it. And, they have determined that this one does. So, I guess you are just smarter than them? From the evidence you have given here against yourself, it appears that you are liberal first, Catholic second. Are you comfortable with that?
Or, is it just, maybe, slightly possible that this massive, Soviet style medical takeover is bound to fail? Why do Canadians come here in droves for competent medical care? Ask one! I know that you really want to believe that government is the answer. It is not. It is a new set of problems. Everything the government touches turns to bankruptcy.
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josephdavid
Guest
Please show me direct quotes from the proposed legislation in the House and in the Senate which specifically says abortion will be federally funded by Public Insurance Option or Medicare -E.
Did you know as many Americans go out of the country for prescriptions and surgeries? Also can you show me legislation in Canada or any other country which they are proposing to scrap their current healthcare system? I would be interested to see.
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pathia
Guest
From most polls that ask about it, everyone globally is always pretty grumpy with their healthcare, however there is no public outcry to ‘be like the USA’ when it comes to healthcare, they all just want improvements of their public solutions.
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