Should Government Take over Health Care?

[gakroeger]

I do not believe our Government has the vision, compassion, or ability to take over the health care industry in the United States. The current administrations lack of respect for all human life, the mess they have made of Social Security, Medicare, the Post Office, and virtually every other government agency makes me extremely fearful of a complete Government takeover of health care. Looking at other Countries such as Canada and Britain that have done this and listening to the horror stories told by citizens of those countries of the long waiting list and general unavailability of medical care makes me even more apprehensive.

I have a strong suspicion that the promoters of this health care imitative have ulterior motives. One being that they can see problems with Medicare running out of funding in the not too distant future and by grabbing the whole enchilada they can control funds for health care for everyone and delay the impending problems with Medicare. This would also give the central (federal) government much more power over the people. With their well demonstrated disregard for certain stages of human life and the frank admissions of their intent to measure the cost of the health care given with the age and condition of the person needing the health care before allowing the necessary procedures is extremely frightening.

The promoters of this government takeover of health care claim that over 40 million Americans do not have health insurance. They state this in such a way as to imply that 40 million Americans do not have access to health care, which is completely untrue. Since 1986 there has been a federal law requiring medical treatment for any and all who appear at any emergency room hospital in the United States, so this administrations claim that 40 million Americans do not have health insurance, while literally true, they know that people hearing this believe that 40 Americans do not have access to health care and they make no attempt to clarify this. The American tax payer and insurance policy buyer is already paying for free medical care for everyone who is without means to pay.

The truth is that a large percentage of these 40 million Americans are not even citizens and have not paid into any of the social programs that support the free care they already get. And all people (even those here illegally) are receiving free medical care currently. And, I really do not object to this, what I do object to is the lies and attempts to take away more of our freedoms in this obvious power grab.

Many Catholic groups and the USCCB have stated their support for a government health care system if it meets the required respect for all human life taught by the Catholic Church. The problem with this as I see it is twofold;

1. The promoters of the Obama or Democrats health care plan have already taken statements by the USCCB, SVDP and other Catholic groups and twisted them to create advertisements claiming that the USCCB, SVDP and other Catholic groups are supporting their current plan.
2. Even if the current administration agrees to modify their plan to meet the pro life requirements, their credibility is zero, they have already proven that they have no problem with promising one thing and delivering something quite different. And, we already know their preference for tax payer funded abortions and limited medical care for the elderly and terminally ill.

I received an article from the “Our Sunday Visitor” stating that several Bishops have begun to address this issue by becoming vocal about keeping large government out of such endeavors. They are being backed by a long dormant Church principle of subsidiarity. Subsidiarity holds that matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least-centralized competent authority. I am in complete agreement with these Bishops.

Here is a link to the entire article

 

[Baloo]

I don’t think so. In order to fulfill the healthcare, you’d have to end up going to local clinics, which would be packed with people, and the lines would be long, places crowded, health care would get shoddier to accommodate the mass amount of people, it’d just be a total mess in my opinion.

Not to mention taxes would go up and lines to get a certain organ would be ridiculously long.

 

[rskempf]

A government takeover would remove marketplace competition from this sector of the economy. Our quick advances in healthcare today, would practically end. Services would be reduced to promote “efficiency.” Would costs be scrutinized as you do with your own money? I think not. Waste and inefficiency would grow … fast.

In only a short time our health care system would be seriously damaged. What is worse, recovery would be very slow. Can you see why…?

 

[aspawloski4th]

A government takeover would remove marketplace competition from this sector of the economy. Our quick advances in healthcare today, would practically end. Services would be reduced to promote “efficiency.” Would costs be scrutinized as you do with your own money? I think not. Waste and inefficiency would grow … fast.

In only a short time our health care system would be seriously damaged. What is worse, recovery would be very slow. Can you see why…?

We have no competition as it is. a governement take over would be taking the medical socialism that is private and making it public. I think a good take over for a few decades will scare the insurance compannies to never cheat people again once medical goes back to private.

 

[buffalo]

No - it violates the Catholic principle of subsidiarity.

 

[pathia]

Emergency care is not healthcare, it’s emergency care.

I have a multitude of non-life threatening conditions that slowly grind me down, but there is no way I can afford to have them treated, since they’re not emergencies, I cannot go to the ER to have them treated. Instead they slowly wear me down until they end up triggering an actual emergency event, which that can be treated, but the underlying condition that caused it in the first place is never treated, as that’s not an emergency.

 

[gakroeger]

Emergency care is not healthcare, it’s emergency care.

I have a multitude of non-life threatening conditions that slowly grind me down, but there is no way I can afford to have them treated, since they’re not emergencies, I cannot go to the ER to have them treated. Instead they slowly wear me down until they end up triggering an actual emergency event, which that can be treated, but the underlying condition that caused it in the first place is never treated, as that’s not an emergency.

It does not have to be an emergency to go to an emergency room. I have been to emergency rooms that have many people there waiting for treatment for very minor problems.

There are also free clinics and help available for prescription drugs. Plus many charitable organizations that will help. Have you called any agencies such as SVDP, Interfaith, etc.

I agree that we need to do more to help those in need, however, tearing down the current system (which is the best in the world) and putting everyone in jeopardy is not the way to fix the deficiencies.

 

[puzzleannie]

I do not believe our Government has the vision, compassion, or ability to take over the health care industry in the United States. e

they can’t run the VA, which is the only true model of government run healthcare we have in the US, it is a disaster, Medicare and Medicaid, the only true model we have of government assisted healthcare we have is a fraud magnet and easily one of the most wasteful and least accountable programs out there. So my guess is OP is right on and attempts at either approach are recipes for failure, and one massive, expensive failure–just what we could use in this economy.

 

[fultonfish]

The government is the reason why healthcare has the problems it currently has.

And the government wants us to give that whole sector to them to “fix”???

There IS competition now. You can pick your own doctor or dentist. You can go to a mall store to get a flu shot. There is intense competition among “big pharma” to come out with the next new cure drug. There are both name brand drugs and generic brand drugs. You can choose “traditional” [folk medicine with herbals, or acupuncture, or chiropractic, or a shaman] or you can choose standard “Western” medicine. But we need MORE competition. Competition works and we need more of it.

To quote some anonymous person at one of the town hall meetings:

Social Security is broke.

Medicare is broke.

Medicaid is broke.

The post office is broke.

Fannie Mae is broke.

Freddie Mac is broke.

Cash for Clunkers is broke.

The government controls everything and screws it up. Government is the REASON we are in so much trouble.

And now you want the government to take over health care; what do you take us for.

Let us run our own lives.

Get the government off our backs.

Let us have the private sector compete interstate without mandates and we can have better, cheaper, faster health care than any government bureaucracy can possibly provide.

If I want to use government bureaucratic health care, I can always visit my nearest Indian reservation. There are probably around 500 of them.

[Now there’s an idea !!! We already have government health care. Those legislators in favor of nationalized health care should just order everyone to report to their nearest Indian reservation.]

The government is the CAUSE of the problems and they have legislated to PREVENT us from fixing what needs to be fixed.

What we need is interstate competition among medical insurance companies without mandates. What we need is to be able to get tax deductions and tax credits for medical payments. Explain why I am not able to get a tax deduction for paying my mother’s medical bills. What we need are tax deductible charitable funds that we can contribute to that would pay for medical treatments or medical insurance for people who cannot afford them now. What we need are protections and encouragements for privately run charitable hospitals (such as used to be run by the Catholic Church but which are increasingly being closed).

We need to have all medical insurance transferred to the individuals instead of being provided (and belong to ) employers. That would make it portable. So if you change jobs or lose your job, you still have medical insurance.

We need MSA/HSA types of policies for individuals (which is mostly prohibited by the government).

The government caused the problem. The government IS the problem.

 

[Ella]

A couple points.

Having a public option is not the same as the government “taking over health care”…

If having a public option “violates the Catholic principle of subsidiarity” then why is it the Vatican puts up with the fact that every other 1st world country on the planet has some form of public option? Including Italy?

If Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Switzerland, Australia to name a few countries can manage to have a public option why can’t America? Do their health care systems have problems - of course, there is no perfect system - but can we do better? I believe so.

From:usccb.org/sdwp/national/health1.shtml

“Reform efforts must begin with the principle that decent health care is not a
privilege, but a right and a requirement to protect the life and dignity of every person. All people need and should have access to comprehensive, quality health care that they can afford, and such access should not depend on their stage of life, where or whether they or their parents work, how much they earn, where they live, or where they were born.”

 

[gakroeger]

A couple points.

Having a public option is not the same as the government “taking over health care”…

If having a public option “violates the Catholic principle of subsidiarity” then why is it the Vatican puts up with the fact that every other 1st world country on the planet has some form of public option? Including Italy?

If Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Switzerland, Australia to name a few countries can manage to have a public option why can’t America? Do their health care systems have problems - of course, there is no perfect system - but can we do better? I believe so.

From:usccb.org/sdwp/national/health1.shtml

“Reform efforts must begin with the principle that decent health care is not a
privilege, but a right and a requirement to protect the life and dignity of every person. All people need and should have access to comprehensive, quality health care that they can afford, and such access should not depend on their stage of life, where or whether they or their parents work, how much they earn, where they live, or where they were born.”

However, does the government have to provide this? Especially a government with such a poor track record. And to point to the countries that have a “public option” that have a undisputable record for much poorer health care then is provided to even those who cannot pay in this country is a very poor argument to say the least. If not, why do people from these countries come the the U.S. when they have serious medical problems?

I have paid a percentage of my income into Medicate since its inception in July of 1965. I paid this money for 40 years with no other benefit than the promise of health care when I reached 65. When I reached 65 I started paying Medicare about $150 a month for my wife and myself which is now up to $200 per month. Additionally, I have to pay another $200 per month for a supplemental insurance policy because Medicare alone does not protect us. My ex-employer is also paying an additional $200 per month for this supplemental insurance policy. So, in addition to the 40 years of premium payments to Medicare, I am still paying $600 per month for medical insurance. And, even though we have not had any major medical problems since retirement, I have had to pay on average another $10,000 per year for medical, dental, prescription drugs, co-pays, and annual deductibles.

As bad as this plan is, I much prefer it to what is being proposed by the current administration. I would like it even better if the government backed out of health care entirely and moved it back where it belongs with private enterprise.

If the government really wants to do something to fix the health care problem, they need to fix the things that are dragging this system down; namely frivolous law suits and fraud. The ridiculous expense outlined above has less to do with actual medical cost as it has to do with mal practice insurance and thousands of crooks devising methods of defrauding the government and insurance companies out of money. We need tort reform and a crack down on fraud; we do not need more government intervention into the health care system.

If the government had been doing this before now, the problems would not still exist and we would have had the confidence in our government to maybe support a plan such as this.

As long as I continue to see and hear the thousands of TV and radio ads every 10 minutes telling me how I can sue some doctor or get a free wheel chair so I can drive to my refrigerator; I will continue to say NO to this government take over.

 

[Ella]

" that have a undisputable record for much poorer health care then is provided to even those who cannot pay in this country is a very poor argument to say the least. If not, why do people from these countries come the the U.S. when they have serious medical problems?

Undisputable? Please provide proof of that. It contradicts everything I’ve read and every person from Europe that I’ve spoken to on this subject. Particularly it contradicts the World Health Organization which rates France’s health care as number one in the world.
. who.int/topics/primary_health_care/en/

As bad as this plan is, I much prefer it to what is being proposed by the current administration. I

Which proposal? What exactly are you writing about?

If the government really wants to do something to fix the health care problem, they need to fix the things that are dragging this system down; namely frivolous law suits and fraud.

Not according to the Congressional Budget office:
From: cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=4968&type=0
“…the evidence available to date does not make a strong case that restricting malpractice liability would have a significant effect, either positive or negative, on economic efficiency”

 

[gakroeger]

Undisputable? Please provide proof of that. It contradicts everything I’ve read and every person from Europe that I’ve spoken to on this subject. Particularly it contradicts the World Health Organization which rates France’s health care as number one in the world.

You really need to get more current and read more than just the liberal propaganda media. The WHO has not published a health care ranking since 2000 and the criteria they used then is very suspect. I don’t know who you speak to in Europe however; it must be liberals who have not needed to use the health care system. Most real people that have had to use the systems over there tell of long waits and limited availability mostly from Britain. Canada has many people speaking out against the government system there. And, please don’t ask me to site examples again, do your own research, there are hundreds of examples, you do however, have to read more than liberal publications and watch more than MSNBC.

Another issue that must be considered it the expectations of the people in these European Countries. I was recently in Rome and was extremely frustrated with the 1 hour wait in a bank to exchange some currency. An Italian lady sitting next to me offered sympathy telling me I was now in Italy and I must learn to wait.

Which proposal? What exactly are you writing about?

Here is all 1018 pages. Please get back to us after you have read it.

edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Not according to the Congressional Budget office:

This is good, let’s ask the government if they are inefficient. I would rather believe my own eyes, ears, and judgement.

 

[pathia]

It does not have to be an emergency to go to an emergency room. I have been to emergency rooms that have many people there waiting for treatment for very minor problems.

There are also free clinics and help available for prescription drugs. Plus many charitable organizations that will help. Have you called any agencies such as SVDP, Interfaith, etc.

I agree that we need to do more to help those in need, however, tearing down the current system (which is the best in the world) and putting everyone in jeopardy is not the way to fix the deficiencies.

I am considered ‘middle class’ by my income and thus not eligible for pretty much every single charity. The last time I tried to go to the ER for my non-threatening issues, they wrote me up some specialists who I could go to, who’s out of pocket cost for a single visit was about the same size as an entire paycheck, not including any tests.

 

[gakroeger]

I am considered ‘middle class’ by my income and thus not eligible for pretty much every single charity. The last time I tried to go to the ER for my non-threatening issues, they wrote me up some specialists who I could go to, who’s out of pocket cost for a single visit was about the same size as an entire paycheck, not including any tests.

I am very sorry to hear of your problems. Have you checked for free clinics in your area? Also, I do volunteer work for SVDP and we do not ask about income for aid. We visit every person who calls and offer food and financial assistance for everyone who needs it. We do naturally have limitations however; we have a fixed amount of financial aid we can provide annually for those in need. SVDP is only one of hundreds of organization that provide this kind of help.

I will be sure to include you in my prayers…

 

[pathia]

I am very sorry to hear of your problems. Have you checked for free clinics in your area? Also, I do volunteer work for SVDP and we do not ask about income for aid. We visit every person who calls and offer food and financial assistance for everyone who needs it. We do naturally have limitations however; we have a fixed amount of financial aid we can provide annually for those in need. SVDP is only one of hundreds of organization that provide this kind of help.

I will be sure to include you in my prayers…

Free clinics don’t have the specialists, which are the only ones that could help me. I’ve been able to use free clinics for things like flu shots, colds, the basic stuff and I am grateful for that, but none of those doctors are able to treat the underlying illnesses that keep me chronically ill.

 

[rtconstant]

You really need to get more current and read more than just the liberal propaganda media. The WHO has not published a health care ranking since 2000 and the criteria they used then is very suspect. I don’t know who you speak to in Europe however; it must be liberals who have not needed to use the health care system. Most real people that have had to use the systems over there tell of long waits and limited availability mostly from Britain. Canada has many people speaking out against the government system there. And, please don’t ask me to site examples again, do your own research, there are hundreds of examples, you do however, have to read more than liberal publications and watch more than MSNBC.

You might want to dig a little deeper than the Republican National Committee’s website. Yes problems do occur in Europe’s healthcare system. What you’re not being told is that most feel the answer is for the system to become more public not less. Also the complaints they have similar to the ones we have. They don’t like waiting but they don’t really wait much longer than we do. We have waiting periods here as well. I don’t think I’ve ever been able to get with a specialist in less than 2 weeks. If you’ve got money you can get immediate treatment here in the US but there is no guarantee of speed for anyone else here. Also we have less provider options on average than Europeans. Do you really think they want anything like our system, which puts hundreds of thousands into bankruptcy every year?

Another issue that must be considered it the expectations of the people in these European Countries. I was recently in Rome and was extremely frustrated with the 1 hour wait in a bank to exchange some currency. An Italian lady sitting next to me offered sympathy telling me I was now in Italy and I must learn to wait.

A nice anecdote.

Here is all 1018 pages. Please get back to us after you have read it.

edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

This is good, let’s ask the government if they are inefficient. I would rather believe my own eyes, ears, and judgement.

 

[rtconstant]

The government is the reason why healthcare has the problems it currently has.

And the government wants us to give that whole sector to them to “fix”???

There IS competition now. You can pick your own doctor or dentist. You can go to a mall store to get a flu shot. There is intense competition among “big pharma” to come out with the next new cure drug. There are both name brand drugs and generic brand drugs. You can choose “traditional” [folk medicine with herbals, or acupuncture, or chiropractic, or a shaman] or you can choose standard “Western” medicine. But we need MORE competition. Competition works and we need more of it.

To quote some anonymous person at one of the town hall meetings:

Social Security is broke.

Medicare is broke.

Medicaid is broke.

The post office is broke.

Fannie Mae is broke.

Freddie Mac is broke.

Cash for Clunkers is broke.

The government controls everything and screws it up. Government is the REASON we are in so much trouble.

And now you want the government to take over health care; what do you take us for.

Let us run our own lives.

Get the government off our backs.

Let us have the private sector compete interstate without mandates and we can have better, cheaper, faster health care than any government bureaucracy can possibly provide.

If I want to use government bureaucratic health care, I can always visit my nearest Indian reservation. There are probably around 500 of them.

[Now there’s an idea !!! We already have government health care. Those legislators in favor of nationalized health care should just order everyone to report to their nearest Indian reservation.]

The government is the CAUSE of the problems and they have legislated to PREVENT us from fixing what needs to be fixed.

What we need is interstate competition among medical insurance companies without mandates. What we need is to be able to get tax deductions and tax credits for medical payments. Explain why I am not able to get a tax deduction for paying my mother’s medical bills. What we need are tax deductible charitable funds that we can contribute to that would pay for medical treatments or medical insurance for people who cannot afford them now. What we need are protections and encouragements for privately run charitable hospitals (such as used to be run by the Catholic Church but which are increasingly being closed).

We need to have all medical insurance transferred to the individuals instead of being provided (and belong to ) employers. That would make it portable. So if you change jobs or lose your job, you still have medical insurance.

We need MSA/HSA types of policies for individuals (which is mostly prohibited by the government).

The government caused the problem. The government IS the problem.

You are aware that it was the private sector that caused these problems right? The banking giants pushed for deregulation and destroyed the nations economy. Its the government’s fault in as much as they enacted the policies. However, they did so at the urging of the private sector. So lets not tell ourselves that private companies would do a better job. Almost every economic problem we’ve experienced as a country has come from the private sector, and the government and unions, as corrupt as they sometimes are, have been the only things to stand in its way.

 

[Christopher68]

The government is the reason why healthcare has the problems it currently has.

And the government wants us to give that whole sector to them to “fix”???

There IS competition now. You can pick your own doctor or dentist. You can go to a mall store to get a flu shot. There is intense competition among “big pharma” to come out with the next new cure drug. There are both name brand drugs and generic brand drugs. You can choose “traditional” [folk medicine with herbals, or acupuncture, or chiropractic, or a shaman] or you can choose standard “Western” medicine. But we need MORE competition. Competition works and we need more of it.

To quote some anonymous person at one of the town hall meetings:

Social Security is broke.

Medicare is broke.

Medicaid is broke.

The post office is broke.

Fannie Mae is broke.

Freddie Mac is broke.

Cash for Clunkers is broke.

The government controls everything and screws it up. Government is the REASON we are in so much trouble.

And now you want the government to take over health care; what do you take us for.

Let us run our own lives.

Get the government off our backs.

Let us have the private sector compete interstate without mandates and we can have better, cheaper, faster health care than any government bureaucracy can possibly provide.

If I want to use government bureaucratic health care, I can always visit my nearest Indian reservation. There are probably around 500 of them.

[Now there’s an idea !!! We already have government health care. Those legislators in favor of nationalized health care should just order everyone to report to their nearest Indian reservation.]

The government is the CAUSE of the problems and they have legislated to PREVENT us from fixing what needs to be fixed.

What we need is interstate competition among medical insurance companies without mandates. What we need is to be able to get tax deductions and tax credits for medical payments. Explain why I am not able to get a tax deduction for paying my mother’s medical bills. What we need are tax deductible charitable funds that we can contribute to that would pay for medical treatments or medical insurance for people who cannot afford them now. What we need are protections and encouragements for privately run charitable hospitals (such as used to be run by the Catholic Church but which are increasingly being closed).

We need to have all medical insurance transferred to the individuals instead of being provided (and belong to ) employers. That would make it portable. So if you change jobs or lose your job, you still have medical insurance.

We need MSA/HSA types of policies for individuals (which is mostly prohibited by the government).

The government caused the problem. The government IS the problem.

Excellent post.

Several comments:

First, per the US Constitution, health care is NOT the responsibility of the federal government.

Second, and this cannot be stated strongly enough, it is the government that got us into this mess - NOT the free market. Here is a link to the excellent Ludwig von Mises website, with some very good reading material for anyone who would like to learn more on this topic.

mises.org/story/3737

 

[aspawloski4th]

Excellent post.

Several comments:

First, per the US Constitution, health care is NOT the responsibility of the federal government.

Second, and this cannot be stated strongly enough, it is the government that got us into this mess - NOT the free market. Here is a link to the excellent Ludwig von Mises website, with some very good reading material for anyone who would like to learn more on this topic.

mises.org/story/3737

If you want to play the constitution game then theres lots of other things you have to dezal with also. Example, The Federal Reserve Systen is totally constitutional in the way it handles currency and it;s existance, marriage liscences or unconstitutional, social security is unconstitutional, drivers liscences are unconstituional. The constitution was suspened by the 1933 War Powers act, and the 1935 Fiancial Rstoration act. It was over before you and I came about. I’m not interested in having more people die just to protect few select ideals from a document we otherwise don’t use anymore. Either follow it totally or not at all.